all 15 comments

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not a QT, however - transracial is mentioned mostly when compared with transgenders who are not even planning to actually transition or who have no dysphoria, or with NB people. To show how ridiculous that is. And there bascially no differences, as all it takes is only their own belief and words, nothing more.

[–]questioningtw 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Is transracial even a thing? Besides that one woman years ago, that obviously had many mental issues, who is trying to change their race? Sure there are people that fetishize other cultures, or are just fascinated by them, but no one is actually trying to become another race.

[–]lunarenergy8[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think it is like A thing, but I have read several accounts of various folks identifying as a culture that is different from the one they were born in, so definitely more than just Rachel Dolezal. Some ppl who are anti-transracial see young girls who are getting tans, braiding their hair, wearing large hoops, and trying to get "thicc" as trying to be transracial too ... so that really ups the number if those young folk are getting included (I don't see that as transracial, but just saying thats an opinion I have read about)

[–]DistantGlimmer 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There definitely is a thing with some black people "wanting to be white" and experiencing something similar to dysphoria. It's very sad and I assume it would be more comparable to transmen than transwomen.

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It is more to do with society, than with anything else. Same as teen girls almost always dysphoric to the changes in their bodies and sudden influx of male attention and sexualization.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’m not QT, but I’m going try my best to say why they might be different. I feel like childhood gender nonconformity (the way I define it, which is, not a choice) and severe gender dysphoria make transgender different than transracial. There are a lot of similarities though, so I understand why people make the comparison.

I feel like we have to be honest about the trans experience being that a unique (and extremely varied) experience and being real about that even when it’s as close as it can be, it isn’t the same experience as someone non-trans of that natal sex. I mean, does it really matter that isn’t not the same? I feel like it hurts trans people long term to say that it is or that we aren’t actually our natal sex.

[–]anxietyaccount8 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I'm not QT either (lol sorry) and I honestly don't know. These days I've actually seen more people be stereotypical about race than in the past. But one difference is that being transgender has to do with sexuality. Homosexual people aren't seen as the average man/woman, so being trans makes sense as a phenomenon.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

being transgender has to do with sexuality

Can you explain what you mean by this? I’m not saying it’s wrong necessarily, but some people see it as super separate from sexuality.

[–]anxietyaccount8 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Well, everyone's internal sense of gender has to do with sexuality, somewhat. And many trans people are gay (HSTS). The fact that they are queer makes them wish they are the opposite sex.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Okay, thanks! I feel similarly. I’m not sure if sexuality is everything, but it’s part of it.

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Most of trans people were gay, new generation is mostly straight people. However, it is questionable if new generation can be even called transgenders, as it seems that they are just taking an advantage of poorly written laws (like self-ID laws are often abused by criminals or perverts after being caught, or by sportsmen who were doing poorly in men sport) or abusing current social acceptance, and not actually feeling a need to be of opposite sex or suffering from being of their sex in any way. Obciously I am not talking about everyone, just about current majority.

[–]luckystar 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

(Disclaimer: Not QT but not fully GC either)
Dr. Tuvel's work might interest you

I see a few ways that transgender is distinct from transracial. First of all, there are major material differences between the sexes and they are much less fluid/socially constructed (heh) than race is. Patriarchy is a constant in nearly every society on earth -- I'm aware that there might be like, some distant uncontacted tribes that theoretically have a matriarchal society but certainly no major countries or civilizations. Considering which board this is, I assume i don't have to go into much detail over how biological sex affects one's lived experience.

Racial hierarchies on the other hand, can vary a lot by country. While there is a sort of global stigma against darker skinned people that seems somewhat universal, the concept of who belongs to which "race" changes a lot over time and across different societies. EG: In the US, a Japanese person and a Korean person would both just be tagged as "Asian" by the general public, and there isn't a clear ranking of who is the "more marginalized" of the two, whereas in Japan, the Korean would be the more marginalized one because Japan has a strong and clear bias against Koreans. In the US, black people are less likely to end up in positions of influence and power, but go to an African country and suddenly all the leaders are black. There are groups of people (Italians and Irish for instance) that used to be viewed as different from the WASP stereotype of "white people" but nowadays we'd definitely call them white people. At one point, the country had to decide whether or not Finns -- yes, the blonde haired blue eyed northern European folk -- should be legally considered as white people. In short, there isn't a universal definition of who is which race, it is nearly entirely socially constructed. (I say almost because there are still very, very rough but obvious differences between say, a black man and a white man, and there are sometimes biological differences in terms of hereditary disease and the like).

Now, another point is that we see very few people expressing great distress over their perceived race being incongruent with material reality. There is a small but statistically significant (0.3% or so IIRC) of humans that consistently claim to be a different gender from their biological sex. We don't have communities of people experiencing distress over thinking they were meant to have been born a different race. We do see people who adopt the customs and stereotypes associated with a different race, often out of a perceived need to fit in with the people around them (think Candace Owens vs Eminem), but I don't think Owens would try to genuinely claim her racial identity is white or Eminem to claim his racial identity is black.

Finally, the benefits to becoming a different race are limited, whereas the benefits to "becoming" a different gender are pretty real and noticeable. We don't have separate schools, or water fountains, or Negro baseball leagues anymore, but we do still have men's and women's bathrooms, separate sports categories, separate hospital/dormitory/prison facilities, and so on. I think society (in the US at least) views racial segregation as unacceptable these days (with some minor exceptions like say, a black accounting majors club at a university or something like that). But most people do want to uphold sex segregation.

[–]divingrightintowork 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Here is a thorough academic take on it that I'd suggest giving a read - this woman put a lot on the line to get it published, sadly -

"In Defense of Transracialism."

Basically the answer is "they're not very different."

[–]divingrightintowork 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh I'd also read the response to the respones here -

Also for reference it was published in Hypatia

[–]emptiedriver 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

One thing I've found interesting is that there's been a lot of "she's whatever she identifies as" in describing Kamala Harris recently that no one has really pushed back on. It hasn't been said outrightly that she's transracial or anything, but in response to whether she counts as African American when her heritage is Jamaican/Indian, I've seen fewer people make the case for "of course Jamaican is African American" than for "If she feels black, then she's black" or "she went to a historically black college and understands herself as black" or something along those lines.

I dunno if that's just been random to what I've noticed, or how relevant it is, but even so at least a few people have put it in terms like that which I'm not sure would have happened right after Dolezai, or before all this identity politics for that matter.

*edit: not that she would be transracial to be black, just the way it's been phrased as an identity thing stood out to me