Both: When did you first learn about the existence of transgender people?

submitted by worried19 from self.GCdebatesQT

We had a thread like this on the old sub, so I thought it might be interesting to have one here.

When did you first learn about the existence of transgender people? How old were you? Where did you learn about them? And what were your thoughts at the time?

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[–]MezozoicGaygay male 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

It was around 25 or so years ago, when some of them joined protests against anti-gay laws here, when USSR dissapeared and goverment was thinking which laws import from USSR and which don't. They were there for the gay cause, as they all were homosexual. I was in my early 20s. My thoughts were absolutely same as now about such type of transgender/transsexual people - they just want to silently live with a man, and do not want any attention, they want to blend up with people and live normal lives, just like LGB people do.

If you mean transgenders of new wave, then it was around 4-5 years ago, when my ex-boyfriend went living to Russia, and was met there with homophobia, he seems to break down, and decided that he is straight woman now, and not a gay man, to make life easier. He started taking hormones, even made some face surgery (but not bottom one and don't want to make bottom one), however, he went full crazy on genderqueer ideology, so he started believing and saying things like: "I am better woman than women, because I have all advantages of being man and no disadvantages of women - I have beauty and boobs, I will never get pregnant or have periods, I have male brain, so can be bro for men", often going hard on women too, especially with male/female brain stuff, assuming that males are much smarter, and similar things. He made me genderqueer theory sceptical. And then Vancouver Rape Relief situation happened and made me gender critical. And in my circles I was least gender critical for a long time, as majority of transsexuals/transgenders I know - all were heavily gender critical.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I’m sorry about your ex. That must have been really difficult to watch happen.

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It was more facepalm worthy and dissapointment. He was around 38-40 years old, when started transitioning and went full misogyny. However, it was sad moment as well - 40 years fighting against homophobia to call himself gay, and then simply breaking down under new pressure, and going full opposite to his previous beliefs.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

it was sad moment as well - 40 years fighting against homophobia to call himself gay, and then simply breaking down under new pressure, and going full opposite to his previous beliefs

That is really heartbreaking. Do you feel like the misogyny was always there, but maybe under the surface? It’s so hard to imagine someone becoming that misogynistic so quickly.

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There were a little, however, his new actions looks more like a hysteria and complacency tries ("I am better woman than women, and I have only bonuses in no periods", etc), than actual his thoughts. He did not liked women as feminine gay, as for some reason he was thinking that straight men attacking him for femininity is somehow feminist fault (interesting case of victim blaming). So I'd say it alwas was there in small amounts, but now it is more like a self-defense mechanism.

[–]worried19[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

To be honest, I can't remember the details. I know I was aware of transgender people by middle school because I started to wonder if I was one, but I can't recall how or where I first heard about them. My media was pretty restricted as a kid, so I don't think it could have been a movie or television show. I'm left with assuming I probably saw something on the news at some point. Clearly it was not an earth shattering revelation.

I was aware by 13, at the latest. And my feelings about them were supportive. I guess I thought they were like gay people, and I never understood what was supposed to be the big deal about gay people. So I would have been predisposed to think trans people deserved equal rights and protection. As far as I understood it at the time, trans people were adults who were "born in the wrong body" and hated their bodies and needed to have surgeries and live as the opposite sex to have happy lives.

[–]DistantGlimmer 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I'd see the idea as "men dressing up as women" as a kid played for laughs(70s/80s). I can't remember how old I was when I became aware hat some did that as a serious thing. Teenager probably but I remember hearing about that case the later made a movie of about young transsexual FtM who was murdered on the news and thinking it was so awful and heartless how they were treated and how people talked about transsexual people in connection to that like the really were subhuman. It really was a different time back then. When I was older I did some research about it because I thought I may even be a bit that way but it was totally different back then no one said they were women but you had to commit to "living as a woman full time" while still acknowledging your maleness. It wasn't something that fit me at all. Presumably helped some people with severe dysphoria though

[–]worried19[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

That reminds me of the movie Stardust. There was a cross-dressing pirate, but he was portrayed as a gay man. And definitely a man, no suggestion he was trans. I saw that when I was 12.

What was the movie about the murdered trans man you mentioned? Google says probably Boys Don't Cry?

[–]DistantGlimmer 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

yeah, that's the movie.Very sad story.

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It was made in 1999, looks like. I wonder what modern trans activists think of it. Doesn't seem like it would fully meet their standards.

[–]DistantGlimmer 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The case it was based on happened in 1993, here's the wiki about it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brandon_Teena

It was heavily covered even in Canada and it did a lot to raise awareness of these issues. I think it may have been the first time I saw trans people portrayed in the media in a mainly positive light as well as the first time i really became aware of FtM people.

But as I said I also remember a lot of disgusting backlash to it from some people around me which I couldn't understand even at the time. Why someone would be so hated by some people just for being a little different (and the fact that I was pretty gender non-conforming even at that time probably made me sympathize with them more).

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I felt I must really be a girl inside at a really young age because of how I was, but I found out about a word for that in elementary school. The first time a heard it was in the context of being bullied by older kids. Shortly after, I wandered away from my Mom at the library and found out what the word transsexual meant (also, that a “sex change” surgery existed). I can’t remember what age exactly, but it had to be before age 9 because that was when my parents pulled me out of school.

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Sorry that was such a negative experience. I always figured kids would bully feminine boys by calling them gay (or worse words), but I'm surprised they knew the word "transsexual."

I used to get called lesbian slurs in middle school, but no one ever seemed to think I was trans.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Sorry, I feel like I didn’t describe it well. When kids would call me names it was usually other things (queer, sissy, faggot, etc.). Transsexual wasn’t like a regular slur. This was like one particular incident with older boys when I was at camp (my parents wanted to toughen me up at the time).

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Ah, that makes sense if it was older kids. All-boys camp would definitely have an increased likelihood of bullying, too. Kids can be cruel.

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Older kids can make anything as bad word, we had big but very kind-hearted boy in our class, he was almost 2 meters tall already in 8th grade, and he had huge muscles (he took second place in boxing somewhere in Europe when grew up, and did some powerlifting challenges, so he could fight well) and was very wide in shoulders. In 8th grade he already had beard. So bullies were calling him "manly" or "too manly" as an insult. And he was too kind to answer back to anyone.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Sadly Jerry Springer as a young teen.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I’m sorry. I feel like seeing trans people on Springer could definitely trigger a lot of self-hate.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, It really would have been nice to have some positive representation.

Some of the drag stuff was helpful, I burned out VHS’s for Priscilla queen of the Desert and Too Wong Foo.

[–]worried19[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I remember on the old sub, that was a common thread. It sucks so many people had to witness something like that as their first exposure to transgender individuals.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It’s a little better now but actual representation is so important.

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Agreed. I'm in favor of responsible representation of trans adults.

[–]firebird 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I can't really pinpoint it, to be honest. I was definitely still a teenager, and I think that it was through several references in the media (including series like Friends, which I loved back then). Because this is my approach to pretty much everything, I eventually started looking up information around it. Can't say I really had that many thoughts or opinions about them, I guess it's best described as being accepting and having a live and let live attitude.

I do remember when I learned about non-binary people though. I was around 20 years old and it was through those typical online articles attempting to 'educate' people on all these 'progressive' topics. Again, I like to inform myself on lots of things and different perspectives, which is why I came across these articles. From the start I think I never really 'got' this concept, but just thought that didn't matter and I should just try to be supportive anyway.

[–]worried19[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I definitely learned about non-binary online, through Reddit. I found it when I was searching for labels that might fit me, like genderqueer or transmasculine. Even when I was flirting with calling myself those terms, I never truly comprehended them.

[–]LasagnaRossa 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

On DeviantArt, I was a teenager. There were a couple of people I followed that were trans (ftm and mtf exactly) and I remember I was intrigued because " Wow, so this girl doesn't feel like me, whereas this guy feels like me. So cool, I wonder how it works".

I remember I've always struggled to really understand what they meant, even in my TRA phase. It felt more a belief than a scientific fact, and I'm pretty allergic to unproved information.

Anyway, now, even if I respect their choice to call themselves however they want, I don't believe they actually are what they claim. Nobody feels like me except, well, me; and what I have in common with other women is the practical experience to live with a female body. That's it, that's all.

[–]burninglikeabridge 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Pretty sure I learned what trans people were from de Phil or one of those types of shows. I used to pray to wake up a boy before I slept when I was young. I remember doing that at 7 years old and I must have realized what trans people are at 9 or 10 from one of those awful shows. I read everything I could about it after that but then tried to block it out of my mind as much as possible because I really didn't want to be trans.

[–]worried19[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've never actually seen one of those shows, but I can imagine they're pretty bad. Did you actually see FTM trans people? I always thought they used trans women more for shock value.

[–]divingrightintowork 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I never really "didn't" know about them which is to say there was never a moment where it was like "Wait people can do that?" It just intuitvely made sense - this is also true of

Polyamory / Relationship Anarchy / non-monogamy Asexuality Homosexuality / bisexuality Kink Atheism (sort of, like I believed in Santa and this belief just sort of faded - likewise for religion - I never "fell" out of faith was just raised believing in God, just like I was raised believing in Santa)

And probably a bunch of other stuff - like I've read lots of stories of people realizing they didn't "have" to be straight, or monogamous, or vanilla, giving their selves permission, etc. and all of these things always intuitively made sense - That you could be a gynomorph who had c asual sex with multiple people and intimate relationships with multiple people who also had a fursona, or w/e. No aha moments, no "Do people really do that?" moments, no "What do you mean you are married and have a boyfriend" moments, etc. Just like a lot of "Yeah you do you."

But I can comfortably say I was familiar or aware or some such of most all of those things when I was a teenager - and I was a teenager in the 90s, and socially isolated, so yeah - it was fairly intuitive. I was indifferent to transsexuality - there was nothing exceptional or weird about it / no reason anyone couldn't do it if that is what they wanted to do.

[–]worried19[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That's interesting. I'm younger than you are, but maybe I was more sheltered. A lot of the things you listed would never in a million years have occurred to me. They're just totally outside my frame of reference and experience.

[–]divingrightintowork 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But it wasn't about being sheltered, it was understanding that there were no literal or material rules or laws that were stopping anyone from doing any of these things, by and large.. And I always understood that.

like sure at one point I was told you had to wait until marriage before having sex, and I kind of knew what marriage was, I didn't really know what sex was, like in any way I really thought about, anymore that I knew what living in Africa was like (I didn't know it living in Africa was like).

And then some point when I was a teenager, I had a better understanding of what sex was, and saw no real reason as to why you couldn't wait until marriage to have it, but also why you couldn't have it with anyone you wanted, because what did being in a relationship with one person have anything to do with what you did with other people?

Like that was intuitive. Similarly, why couldn't a person go to great lengths to resemble another sex than their own? Why couldn't you be in a romantic relationship with more than one person?

Basically the answer to all of these things is social pressure, but that doesn't literally stop anyone, therefore anyone could do that if that's what they really want to do.

Does that make sense?

(For context I grew up in a conservative Catholic family, in a very homogenous suburban area, but a metropolitan suburban area But still very homogenous).

[–]questioningtw 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I took a Sociology class in my community college and a trans woman talked to the class. Now this was around 1999 and she would be considered a horrible person by TRAs because she was an actual transsexual. She actually seemed to be a lovely woman that just wanted to transition and be left alone. I used to consider myself very pro trans because of this. Transgender people on the internet however are a different story:I became aware of their existence when they used to troll blogs calling women transphobes even if they were supportive of trans people.