GC: What is the best or most important thing trans people or transsexuals can do to help you?

submitted by peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (56 children)

We can have 2 spaces. One for everyone and one for cis females, who have the option of choosing which space.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (55 children)

So, one bathroom for all males and women who think TWAW, and one for gender critical females?

So you’re saying... lol... to put transwomen in a bathroom that would still have other men but it’s okay because a “cis” woman may be stupid enough to think that’s the bathroom she should use in support of Almighty Gender? And you don’t think that some women who support TWAW May choose to use the special “T*rfs Only” bathroom, because it’s likely safer, ideology aside? And you don’t think that transwomen would inevitably find an excuse to trickle on over to the “T-rfs Only”?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

We can turn men's facilities into unisex facilities. Anyone who wants to use men's facilities can. We can also have female only facilities exclusively for people born female who want to get away from men.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am fine with that in theory- im saying it is most likely that TW won’t respect that. Like- women’s restrooms were already female only facilities exclusively for people born female to get away from men- didn’t stop TW from entering those spaces to begin with.

Eta- I also think that most females would use the female facilities, which would solve nothing because TW still want to go were actual women go

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (52 children)

So you acknowledge that it would be stupid to use a men’s toilet?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (51 children)

I acknowledge that whether it’s stupid or not- it doesn’t give you the right to invade my safe spaces. But yeah, I do think it would be stupid for a female to use the men’s room just to make a political point in favor of the demise of her rights. Absolutely. I also think the women’s room is safer for females, without any males. I believe that there have been transphobic attacks in men’s rooms- but there have also been homophobic attacks, there have also been attacks amongst two heterosexual men in a dispute, I’ve even seen stories of children being harmed in those spaces- believing that these incidents did and may occur doesn’t not mean that I believe they occur with enough frequency to warrant dismantling the concept of single sex bathrooms to accommodate only one of the groups of people susceptible to male violence in the men’s bathroom. Particularly when it opens up the women’s room to the dangerous men everyone is trying to get away from while simultaneously promoting the idea that females shouldn’t even be weary when a male body is in their space.

Does that answer your question?

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Self-ID makes this situation even more absurd and harmful to females. There was already case in country with Self-ID, when man (male) who looked like a man come into women's toilet, woman (female) there used paper spray in self defense, however that man said he is woman by Self-ID (so that man is transwoman just not willing to take any hormones or do any surgeries and is fine looking like a man), and in the end woman was arrested and charged for "hate attack". She said he tried to molest her, but that was ignored. With Self-ID and when laws are rewritten to protect "gender" and not "sex", there men (who abuse Self-ID) and transwomen are protected from females in female-only spaces. Same if transwoman will attack gender non-conforming woman in toilet, law will be protecting transwoman, as transwoman will be more "woman gender" and it is "gender" which is protected by law, not "sex".

And in those countries there two toilets: "Toilet for men" and "Toilet for women, transwomen, transmen, enbies". In other words - men's toilet and unisex toilet. And we all know that unisex toilets are the worst for women, majority of rape cases are happening in them. And this too: https://womansplaceuk.org/gender-neutral-toilets-dont-work-for-women-2/

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (49 children)

I just wanted you to be clear about the fact that you know it is stupid for someone to share a bathroom with a man but still expect us to.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (48 children)

So gay men shouldn’t use the men’s room? And you’re going to ignore everything else I said about frequency? You love to ignore what people say and just focus on one part. Point is- I don’t think transwomen are in any more danger than any other male in that space (actually I’m confident there has been more gay bashing than trans bashing in the men’s room) and that any public space can be dangerous for anyone.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The solution, if transwomen are oh so helpless to get their own spaces, is to fix the violence that occurs in male spaces. For all males. Not just the ones who wish they were women. That is what should be happening. But the reason it’s not is not because males can’t be reasoned with (although- considering what transwomen are doing to women maybe that is a part of it lol)- it’s because transwomen want to use female spaces because they are female spaces, not just because they’re “safer”. If someone wants to attack you because you’re trans, they’ll just wait for you to leave the bathroom if you don’t go into the men’s room, and they may attack you for going into the women’s room. If someone violent wants to attack- they will. Regardless of where you go pee. So as far as bathrooms- that’s a male on male issue, a male on male conversation, and a male on male solution. Females should be left out of it entirely.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (46 children)

Point is- I don’t think transwomen are in any more danger than any other male in that space (actually I’m confident there has been more gay bashing than trans bashing in the men’s room) and that any public space can be dangerous for anyone.

You are absolutely wrong. First of all gay men are stronger than trans women. Second many of them don’t immediacy come off as gay. Third, I absolutely believe trans women per capital would be attacked in that situation more than gay men.

But my point was just to confirm that you expect trans women to do something that you acknowledge is a stupid thing to do.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (45 children)

I have said many times that they can use single stall or unisex spaces. If it’s that dangerous fucking pee in a cup for all I care (yes I said it, I’m sure you’ll zero in on this and ignore the rest, you’re welcome for giving you a way of avoiding my point) - just stay out of female spaces. Even if it is dangerous for you- IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WOMEN AND IT IS NOT OUR JOB TO FIX YOUR PROBLEMS. why won’t you address that, ever? The fact that regardless of whether or not it’s a fucking massacre every time a TW uses the men’s room- it has nothing to do with women or our spaces?! Can you at least acknowledge this? I do not believe that men are just on the hunt to attack transwomen. I do not think this happens frequently outside of TW who are sex workers or TW who are attacked or killed by a sex/romantic partner. I have not seen any evidence that this is such a common occurrence that it justifies what is being done to females. I acknowledged that it is stupid for a woman to do this- a female person- because it directly supports a movement that undoes her own rights. Yes. I also said that the women’s room is generally a safer environment, yes- because I don’t hear too many stories about violence in women’s rooms that don’t involve transwomen. I hear stories of violence in men’s rooms, rarely but more frequently. And as I said- it’s not all or even mostly transphobic violence. I didn’t say a woman would be stupid to use the men’s room because she’ll be attacked- not at all. I have used the men’s room plenty of times and have never felt in danger. If it’s a unisex space, they’ll be safer, I assume. My point was that there may be instances where the women’s room feels like a better option- and a woman who calls herself “cis” in support of the Almighty Gender People (anyone see what I accidentally did there?) May choose to lead with her sex over her politics on occasion. There is a difference between a female using a gender neutral space and a female specific one. There are women who will pee in a unisex bathroom but may feel more comfortable changing a tampon, changing/adjusting their clothing, or taking their kids to pee in a female space. When I say safe- it’s a different kind of safe. It’s a comfort thing, it’s a “I’m more likely to find someone who has a spare tampon in the women’s room” thing, even.

My point was also that I know TW will follow their “cisters” and then gc women lose again. So this solves nothing. It’s not the safety- it’s the validation. At the very least we’d get a TW who tries to see if he passes enough to use the “T-rfs Only” room and when he gets clocked it’ll turn into an other issue altogether.

I don’t think it would be stupid for a transwoman to use the men’s room. But even if it is colossally stupid for one to do so- it still doesn’t mean they get to rob women of their spaces. Figure out something else. Leave women out of it. It is not our responsibility to take on any risk for you. Women have nothing to do with transwomen.

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Agree with this, even thought it is written in a heated up way.

Why feelings of transwomen matter, but feelings of women - does not?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why feelings of transwomen matter, but feelings of women - does not?

Because “feelings of transwomen matter, but feelings of women - does not”

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (42 children)

Ive said repeatedly that I’m not arguing women have to take action to protect us just that if they don’t nothing will change.

I do not believe that men are just on the hunt to attack transwomen. I do not think this happens frequently outside of TW who are sex workers or TW who are attacked or killed by a sex/romantic partner.

And I believe you are wrong. Not every man but enough.

I don’t think it would be stupid for a transwoman to use the men’s room.

I can’t believe you still are doing to deny that we are in danger in men’s rooms. Wild.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (41 children)

  1. It doesn’t matter if you think women should protect you or not- you’re still using female spaces and you should not be. You are actively infringing on our rights. You’re using our spaces and therefore us as shields and opening us up to danger by doing so.

  2. I’m not wrong. TW are more likely to be attacked by a sex or romantic partner. This has been linked and discussed in the debate sub so many fucking times, you just don’t want to accept it. Just because men don’t want to date you and or don’t see you as women doesn’t mean they are going to hurt you. Trans people are literally the demographic with the least amount of violence committed against them. Another point that was commonly discussed and cited in the sub that of course you ignore because you have to be a victim.

  3. Yes I am still going to deny it because I have no reason to believe it’s true. You pushing and saying over and over that it is (while linking something that was easily dismissed earlier by someone who wasn’t even tying to dismiss your link) doesn’t make it any more true than transwomen saying over and over thst they are women makes them women. I have explained a few times why I don’t believe it, and also- if it is true- they are not the only males at risk so fix the problem for all males, not just ones who want to be women. So find a solution that makes transwomen, gay men, effeminate men, small men, and little boys all safe in the men’s room and stay the fuck out of spaces literally designed to keep you out. You don’t need women to help you or save you- it’s male on male violence. Find a male on male solution. Or pee in a fucking bush outside I don’t care how shitty that sounds stay away from female spaces.

Why are females not allowed to not have any males in our spaces? Seriously for once answer this- why do females have to just accept TW in our spaces no matter how we feel about it?