GC: Do you think saying things like "a man looks like/passes as a woman" or "a woman looks like/passes as a man" will lead to any issues? And what issues will they lead to?

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[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 10 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

What does this have to do with gc? What’s with the questions about random people’s stupid comments?

Also- my boyfriends former friends drug dealer once said something about Asian women. Please, discuss this anecdote and how you feel about it as a non-radfem?

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Once again, a thread started by this same poster reporting what some other random people have said. Then without stating what OP thinks, or making any attempt at voicing his/her views or stating any kind of POV or argument at all, OP asks other people here to do all the thinking and explaining.

Not gonna play this game. Like I said on the last thread you started, this isn't how debating works, mate. If you want people to engage, stop being lazy and put in some work yourself.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 7 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 5 fun -  (6 children)

Random foolish questions with zero effort or points presented by a brand new account with zero other post history seems to be the only tra interaction here. Imo it’s one or two users from the subreddit just cycling through sock puppet accounts, throwing shit at a wall, and taking screenshots for upvotes from gendercynical subreddit.

Gotta be the same couple of people behind the accounts cause it’s always the same brand of “someone somewhere said something please answer for them” or some stupidly simple post like “what’s a man if my great Aunty has a beard hmmm!? Sex is a spectrum dummies”

It’s so obviously disingenuous and cannot be coming from anyone older than 15.

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It' s the refusal to answer questions that pisses me off more. There was another one a couple of months ago who behaved the same (maybe, as you say, it' s the same person), but regardless, I and others were dumb enough to waste our time answering their questions in a detailed manner and received no answer back. I am done with wasting my time with people who have the same attitude.

It' s a debate sub, if you don' t debate, there' s no reason to be here or for me to answer your threads.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh yeah it’s maddening to hear how we never debate anyone only to repeatedly get asked stupid shit and have any thoughtful responses given ignored in favour of focussing on someone who said something mean somewhere.

We all know why they never answer questions though. Don’t understand them, or have no answer because their gotchas are based in a faith-model.

Maybe a post outlining what and how a debate functions, and why anecdotes or opinions are poor arguments will help tra put together something other than..whatever this thread is.

[–]MissDimples 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I'm 18, don't know about the rest of the people that post. Just because it's a brand new account doesn't mean anything, so what if I do come from the gendercynical subreddit? They talk a lot about this saidit and the ovarit there, I wouldn't be surprised that a lot of new people would come to ask questions, I myself thought of giving this a try.

If you have an issue with the questions but can't answer them then maybe you need to rethink things. You can't go saying the questions I or others ask are idiotic and immature eventhough you have no answers to them and can't properly debunk them either.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

You give nothing to debunk lol. Something some man said one time on a forum is not a debate to counter. It’s just silliness.

If you cannot form a debate it’s weird to post in a debate forum. You make no argument, but insist gc cannot argue because of not ‘debunking’ a conversation had on reddit. There’s nothing to answer. You might as well put up a contextless sound clip of The View or something.

Now, do you have a single actual point to make or just more garbage?

[–]MissDimples 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Hmm, no, GC take photos of tras having conversations on reddit, and then GC argue against the points tras brought up in their subs. At least, it was like that in the gc sub back when it was not banned on reddit. I'm just doing the same thing, bringing tra conversations to your attention. If you can't debunk what tras say anywhere, even if it's on reddit, then you've lost the argument.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I can’t lose an argument when none has been made. This isn’t the old sub. Make a proper argument or go. https://virtualspeech.com/blog/guide-to-debating Try this

[–]MissDimples 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is a debate sub, and yet you're not putting any work in answering any questions either. Oh and I thought unlike tras, GCs were all for answering questions. Those were my questions. Either answer them or leave.

And I did post about my view before if you paid more attention: https://saidit.net/s/GCdebatesQT/comments/70fm/gc_thoughts_on_xenogenders_and_neopronouns_why/

I don't have to directly go scream that I'm on the fence about things, the questions would give it away or I wouldn't ask them in the first place.

[–]FlippyKingSadly this sub welcomes rape apologists and victim blaming. Bye! 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

It gave Aerosmith a big hit during their late 80s mid 90s comeback.

There seem to be problems between people who consider themselves trans and cross-dressers or drag queen performers where some feel their identity is invalidated by the performance, but I question the whole concept of invalidating an identity and the whole concept of identity as it is used in these discussions for that matter.

I think the friend who accused the other friend of misgendering the musician is just wrong. As you describe it, no one said "he is a girl" or anything like that. Saying he looks like a girl is an observation. Saying "I thought he was a girl" or saying "the singer (or whatever) is a girl" and finding out he's not is about perception. No misgendering was done in any case. But, misgendering is usually just correctly stating someone's sex so the concept of misgendering pretends away the observable and real characteristic of sex for a made-up concept that does not exist as a physical thing but only as a claim.

[–]grixitperson 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Agreed. OP should have referenced David Bowie's "Rebel Rebel".

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Glam rock and metal were considered cool and very manly rebellious as well, and men there were looking like this: https://i.imgur.com/JcMcomA.png - and they were showing how it is masculine, cool, and rebellious to look like this in their video clips to their songs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V9AbeALNVkk and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRwrg0db_zY

And it is not even drag, as they are not trying to mock women or look like women, they are showing that having make up and "feminine bright cloths" is cool and masculine, it is manly thing to do as well.

[–]SnowAssMan 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If the band member in question is Asian then it's more racist (or rather Eurocentric) than anything.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I think the only reason tras object to “dude looks like a lady”/“lady looks like a dude” comments is because it proves and reinforces the idea that humans instinctively understand sexed features. So if this guy in the band can be a man who looks like a woman, what does that say for transwomen, even if they pass? What does that mean for any trans person? What about the enbies?

As far as your friend who brought up misgendering- they didn’t. At all.they didn’t “gender” him whatsoever. They knew his sex. They said he looked like the other sex. There’s no such thing as a gender called “woman”- I really wish tras could acknowledge this. Something else tras need to understand is that features are sexed, not gendered. That’s why they’re called primary/secondary sexed features (hair I guess could be somewhat gendered but plenty of men have long hair and a pixie cut on a female is not much different from a short cut on a guy. Bobs. Bobs could be an exception? Never seen a man with a bob. Idk. Not the point).

Side note- really wish you’d post something about your views or engage more, otherwise it’s starting to look like trolling.

[–]MissDimples 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Well I did post about my view before if you paid more attention: https://saidit.net/s/GCdebatesQT/comments/70fm/gc_thoughts_on_xenogenders_and_neopronouns_why/

I don't have to directly go scream that I'm on the fence about things, the questions would give it away or I wouldn't ask them in the first place.

If hair, and other features are sexed, you're saying a man that has less body and facial hair than other men, is shorter, has bobs (yes men have bobs, where are you from that you think only women have bobs?), etc looks like a woman? Lmfao, so a woman that has more body and facial hair than this man, is taller than this man, etc is less of a woman and looks like a man? Good joke. Are you here to prove to me GC don't know what they are taking about either?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wtf nobody said go scream anything? Multiple people here have said something about you posting comments made by other people and then not commenting or barely replying to the people who respond. When you post something here, we shouldn’t have to go read your history on another post to figure out your stance. Everyone else, gc or qt, knows how to reply and offer their own opinion. You just share other people’s comments and then ask gc how we feel about it. You don’t respond. You come across like an internet troll. Several people have said this lol.

Also “if you read” I literally said hair can be gendered lol ans that I’d never personally seen a man with a bob. You can say they’re out there, I have no reason to doubt it, but I still have not ever seen it for myself.

I didn’t say that a woman with facial hair was less of a woman or even that she looks like a man. “If you read” I mentioned sex characteristics. That humans can recognize. And that hair was “gendered”. I didn’t say shit about height or body hair. I didn’t specify what characteristics I was referring to so you should maybe ask for clarification (which would require you to actually actively participate in your own posts so I’m not surprised you didn’t) before you make assumptions. I also didn’t say that someone having the typical sexed features of the opposite sex made them less their own sex or more the opposite. I said “if you read,” that humans recognize sexed features. So yes, humans can recognize when someone has a physical feature that is typically associated with the opposite sex. And they can recognize that a human of one sex is still that sex despite having features of the opposite. We can do this, because we understand how sex works- and it doesn’t rely on secondary features. Primary is primary because it stands on its own. Just as the people in your post did. It was literally my whole fucking point.

Are you here to prove that you’re an ineffective troll?

[–]ColoredTwiceIntersex female, medical malpractice victim, lesbian 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What they both said is an insult - both for women and gnc men.

Saying "being better than women" means that women are just a performance and looks for them, and it is very sexist.

Saying that man looking cute means that he is like a woman or a girl is an insult for that man, as it means they are thinking that men can't look cute or nice and it is "part of being women".

Saying "passing as man or woman" is similar insult.