all 20 comments

[–]Penultimate_Penance 14 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

Should medical transition for gender dysphoria be allowed? For children no (they don't have the maturity or life experience to make such a permanent decision about the rest of their adult life, before they have an inkling of a clue what it is like to be an adult.) Adults potentially yes depending on what kind of physical transitioning they are engaging in. I do think we should take medical ethics very seriously and have a bare minimum level of gatekeeping involved to reduce the odds of someone making a permanent choice they could regret for the rest of their life. Many physical transition surgeries and hormone therapies cause irreversible lifelong negative health and quality of life consequences that cannot be undone. It makes sense to treat the mental health issues first before making any body modifications. So I am neutral about adults physically modifying their bodies to look more like the opposite sex, but it should absolutely be a last resort.

If you believe it should be allowed, why and with what restrictions (if any)? Adults must be fully informed of the consequences and risks involved in any body modification they are interested in. For more extreme modifications like genital surgery they should be required to undergo a reasonable amount of mental health treatment first before being allowed to replace a perfectly healthy body part with a poorly done faux one of the opposite sex. If you read about the side effects, the consequences of surgical failures and overall health consequences of genital surgery it makes sense to think no one should be doing this, hence why at bare minimum we should be requiring mental health treatment first if not outright banning some of the more objectively harmful body modification practices pushed by the trans movement.

What about legal/social transition (i.e. legal documents)? Legal documents absolutely not. I have a book recommendation: "Invisible women" which talks about all the ways failure to measure sex in studies has led to a huge data gap in every aspect in women's lives from the way cars are designed to the effectiveness on drugs on women vs men. It is also incredibly important for safeguarding. Allowing a man into a rape crisis shelter, women's prison, an all girls summer camp and so on can have catastrophic consequences, in fact it already has had catastrophic consequences. Allowing men to legally change their sex to female undermines women's essential sex based rights in the law. We have different bodies and drastically different needs than male bodied people and that should be recognized in the law with no confusion.

As for social transitioning eh, live and let live. As long as the trans person in question isn't being a jerk I have no problem using pronouns and whatnot as a social nicety. Part of not being a jerk though is male bodied people staying out of women only spaces. That's where I draw the line. I can be nice to them socially, but if a man who claims to be a woman tries to join me in the women's locker room oh hell no. If he barges into a lesbian meet up he should be kicked out. If he tries to participate in women's sports he should be called out for exactly what he is: a cheater. He can play on the men's team or join a unisex sports league. Pretending to be the opposite sex does not give men the right to be treated as though they really are the opposite sex in all aspects of life. There are hard lines they should not be allowed to cross to maintain women's rights and safeguarding so we can freely participate in public life.

I see trans individuals the same way I see religious fundamentalists. I lowkey think they're kinda nuts and disagree with them on a lot of things, but as long they leave me be I'll do the same for them. It's when they start destroying women's rights that I say now hold on a minute, there's a very important line I will never allow men to cross without a fight. Women's rights are tenuous at best and men's personal beliefs, identities, feelings whatever you want to call em' should never be allowed to override those rights. There is a very long history of horrific oppression against women up to the present day that we must never forget about. I am Malala is another good book to read. All it takes is one batshit crazy ideology to gain power for women's rights go out the window. Transgenderism is a pseudo religious movement. We can give them reasonable keyword reasonable accommodations the same way we do for regular run of the mill religious folks, but not at the expense of the rest of society.

Edit: Fixing wording

[–]MissAnarchistQT is cringe[S] 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

Thank you so much for responding! Your input was very enlightening. I will need to take a look at your book recommendations as well.

One follow-up question I have with regard to the changing of legal documentation: do you think there is any possibility to find a middle ground solution to this issue? While allowing legal sex change does have a number of ramifications that cannot be ignored, I understand that many transsexuals deal with severe social consequences when their legal sex doesn't match up with the sex they socially live as. Evidently, being allowed to change legal sex documentation is far from a real solution, but do you think there may be an alternative/middle ground?

[–]Penultimate_Penance 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

That's a tough one. The slippery slope is very real here with men demanding and gaining! access to women's prisons, rape crisis shelters, women's sports leagues and so on. Things have gotten so absurd that a reductio ad absurdum is already the reality. Which is why I am drawing a hard line at not allowing legal document sex change. This is for the sake of women's rights and trans people safety. Ex. If the wrong sex is on their driver license in an emergency they may get opposite sex medical treatment that could kill them literally.

Normalizing gender nonconformity would go a long way to making trans identified people's particularly trans identified males lives easier. Women have already normalized dressing in 'men's' clothing. It's normal for us to wear pants now as an example. Source: Women arrested for wearing pants (not an ideal source, but you get the idea) Women were the change they wanted to see. I continue that tradition by not shaving and not wearing makeup, because I believe it should be normal for women to exist in their natural state the same way it is for men. Fortunately I'm not getting arrested for it though.

Trans identified males need to be inspired by women's history and toughness, buck up and start normalizing feminine presenting men in society. Claiming to actually be a woman is the cowards solution. Society is more comfortable with a transwoman than a gender nonconforming man which is one reason I suspect trans activism took off despite the absurdity. There are extremely conservative countries that harshly punish homosexuals that embrace transgenderism, because a transwomen is easier for them to tolerate and accept than a feminine gay man.

We need to embrace that there is no such thing as a 'girls toy' or a 'boys toy'. Girls aren't born innately feminine, boys are not innately masculine. Biology is not destiny. Femininity does not = woman. Masculinity does not = man. Both sexes can be varying degrees of masculine and feminine. We need to separate 'gender' from who a person is. Gendered expectations are cultural impositions, not innate. When feminine gay men are fully accepted as a normal part of human variation transwomen's lives will be much easier as well. The same applies to transmen.

The trans movement unfortunately is regressive, because it is pushing back the progress we were making in accepting gender nonconforming people. Saying a masculine woman must be a man isn't progress. Transing historical gender nonconforming individuals isn't progress. Most of us don't quite fit into the straightjacket of femininity or masculinity.

There are a lot of gender nonconforming people myself included who are horrified by the trans movement, because if we were born a decade or two later we would have been trans too. I wanted to be a boy when I was a kid, because I had a more masculine personality, but I'm glad I grew up before the trans movement took off. Transitioning for me would have been a tragedy. For many of the detransitioners it is a tragedy and I really feel for them.

A gender nonconforming woman explaining being gender free A collage of her life A gender nonconforming gay man talking about gender nonconformity

Sorry for the wall of text, I just find this whole moment in history so frustrating. It feels like we're going backwards and I'm pushing back hoping to do my bit to turn it back around.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Hi MissAnarchist!

I made a thread awhile ago about this topic and I feel like it was an interesting discussion. Legal sex change helped me a lot to being able to live a normal life and not have to deal with issues around me being transsexual or discrimination. That said, I know you can’t actually change sex so it is a fiction, it can be a helpful one. Anyway, I’ll leave the thread here in case it helps. Happy to have you here. 😊

[–]Penultimate_Penance 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Thanks for linking that discussion. If there was a way to create a legal fiction to make a passing trans person life easier without opening a can of worms against women's rights I would be open to it. I have a hard time thinking of an alternative solution/compromise that works well for both parties though.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If you don’t mind answering, how do you feel about taking sex markers off more forms of ID or making it where only law enforcement or other people who needed to knew could see it? I feel like if it was only visible when people needed it or if you were applying for a sex-based scholarship or sports league, maybe we could insure sex-based protections stayed sex-based and make it easier for passing trans people to live normal lives. I know none of this is GCs problem to solve and there probably aren’t that many trans people it even would matter for, but I’m just curious if there is something wrong with it that I’m not thinking of. I’m sure some trans people wouldn’t like this idea either because they’d want everything to say the sex they want to be, but I feel like if I could exist without risking being outed when I had to show ID it would have been fine to not change anything.

[–]Penultimate_Penance 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I could see that working pretty well, where there could be additional data like sex that could accessed after scanning the license/passport number when needed. In most day to day activities sex shouldn't matter, so that compromise could potentially work with some caveats to protect women's spaces, shortlists, sports and so on.

[–]SnowAssMan 10 insightful - 5 fun10 insightful - 4 fun11 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

First you have to acknowledge the greater context: The vast majority of kids & teens with gender dysphoria desist, naturally. Most of those who desist are gay & lesbian. Among the ones who don't desist, a high proportion of them are exclusively same-sex attracted. There has been a recent trend of straight girls transition that never used to exist. The demographic least likely to experience gender dysphoria has quickly become the most likely to experience gender dysphoria.

So instead of the question being: what do we do with people who have gender dysphoria, the real question is why do some people with gender dysphoria fail to desist? Desistance is totally natural & cures dysphoria, while transition doesn't. So why not encourage desistance, instead of transition?

Also, knowing the greater context, if you come across a girl who says she has gender dysphoria & wants to be a boy, what situation would transition actually make sense? If she is a lesbian, you know that she is likely just going through a phase that predominantly affects homosexuals. If she is straight, you know she is likely just a victim of a modern trend; a social contagion. So in neither case would it make sense to medically transition her.

The term 'gender dysphoria' makes no sense. If it's dysphoria (the opposite of euphoria, a type of depression) then it is a mental disorder. If gender is not sex, but the social constructs of masculinity & femininity, then the "disorder" would be limited to clothing, behaviours, pronouns, not their sex. So why treat it as it as if there is something wrong with their perfectly healthy body? Why create a hormonal imbalance where none previously existed? Why amputate healthy body parts? Why not treat a mental disorder like a mental disorder? It clearly should have been called 'sex dysmorphia', or something like that, but even then, the cure to dysmorphia is not cosmetic surgery or chemical castration.

The medical industry is treating "gender dysphoric" children the way they used to treat children with DSDs. Sex reassignment surgery was wrong in the case of intersex people & no less wrong in the case of people with a cross-gender identification.

Social transition often leads to medical transition, & legal transition, so it doesn't stop at pronoun usage, typically. I would advise against it.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

*Should medical transition for gender dysphoria be allowed?

I honestly think it’s barbaric, largely ineffective, and counterproductive but if the person doing it is a fully informed and consenting adult- idgaf. I just don’t think mental health issues should be treated by drastically altering the physical to try to match your body to your mental illness. I also think if someone “transitions” it should be purely a personal thing that demands and expects nothing from others.

*If you believe it should be allowed, why and with what restrictions (if any)?

I think an adult who can pay for it should be allowed to do what they want to their body. I think they should have to acknowledge that they aren’t actually transitioning into or out of anything since humans can’t change sex, meaning I think they should be required to acknowledge that the steps they are taking to “transition” are really just cosmetic alterations made to attempt to alleviate dysphoria.

*If you believe it should not be allowed, why? What about legal/social transition (i.e. legal documents)?

Nobody should be allowed to lie on legal documents. Period. Sex doesn’t change in humans. We shouldn’t legally pretend it does just for the sake of trans people.

I don’t think it makes sense to intentionally give someone a hormone imbalance and perform drastic invasive surgeries with the goal of enabling someone to more thoroughly live ensconced in their mental illness. It’s really that simple. Everyone having these procedures is mentally ill. And they are all being “treated” in a way that doesn’t attempt to actually deal with the mental illness itself. Seems to be more about dealing with some of the side effects. Not to mention, to be frank, “transition” ends up placing a lot of demand for special treatment and coddling from society and I just don’t think society should be held hostage to trans people or held responsible for their mental health.

*Also any other input that may help clarify your perspective

Idk how to best answer your questions right now lol, I can’t seem to find the right words, but I think the concept of transition was rooted in homophobia and nobody was actually interested in helping dysphoric/trans people, and I think it’s actually quite sad that trans people fight so hard for a “treatment” that only exists in the first place because there was a time when society would rather turn someone into a lifelong science experiment than accept them as gay or gnc. I think a huge disservice is being done to future dysphoric people because we could have been finding actual solutions/treatments and instead we’ve all but blocked attempts at doing that for the sake of the false promise of transition. Bottom line imo, no other mental illness is dealt with this way. Because it’s just not how mental illness is supposed to be dealt with. At all.

[–]BiologyIsReal 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Here is what I think about these issues:

“Transition” of minors? This is a hard no for me. It used to be that most trans identified children would desist in their cross-sex identification if left alone (1). This is not the case anymore under the “affirmation model” (2). There are still many things we ignore about the consequences of “medically transing” children, but what we do know is worrisome (3, 4, 5). I don’t think children and teens are mature enough to consent to these procedures (6, 7) .

”Medical transition” of adults? Honestly, I don’t this a good idea either. First, all of the procedures associated with “medical transition” are cosmetic in nature because humans can’t change their sex. So, doctors should stop selling their patients a lie and being truthful about what “medical transition” really means. This could start by using terminology that reflect reality (a “neovagina” is nothing like a real vagina, for instance). Also, “validating” a patient’s belief of being the opposite sex may have deadly consequences for them (8, 9).

Second, doctors should stop accepting their patient’s self-diagnostics just because not doing so is “transphobic”. “Gatekeeping” is actually the standard in any other area of medicine. Other mental health issues and trauma shouldn't be ignored either.

Third, “medical transition” should be evaluated like any other treatment. So, what evidence is there that says “transition” is a desirable option? I’m afraid that “trans identified people really want exogenous hormones and surgeries to resemble the opposite sex” is not good enough. Otherwise, anorexic people should be given liposuctions and people with body integrity dysphoria should get their healthy body parts amputated (10). There is a lack of rigorous research, especially at long-term, that shows this is an adequate treatment for people with gender dysphoria. So far, it seems this is not the panacea that transactivists say it is (11). It looks like, at most, “transition” works as a placebo, albeit one that leads to a lot of health problems (12). Furthermore, transactivists suppress any research that may go against the official narrative (13, 14).

Lastly, but not least important, we cannot ignore the effects that “medical transition” may have at societal level. Because it seems that “transition” makes trans people more entitled to be treated as the opposite sex.

Legal “transition”? I’m against it. As I said before, humans can’t change their sex. So, it’s absurd that legal documents state otherwise. If you can lie about your sex, then why can’t you falsify other data like your birth date or place of birth? Moreover, making legal “sex change” possible opens a can of worms in regards to safeguarding, health care and data collection.

Social “transition”? Well this depends on what you mean by it. If we’re just talking about transgressing sex roles and stereotypes, I’m fine with it as long there isn’t a fetish involved. If we’re talking about treating trans identified people as the opposite sex, then I’m not okay with this. Trans people are entitled to their own beliefs, but they’re not entitled to force those beliefs on others. So, I’m against the disappearance of single-sex spaces they are seeking.

Also, if needed, I’d use neutral terms to refer to them, but I won’t use “preferred pronouns” and “inclusive language”. Furthermore, I don’t think news media should use such language either because news should be factual. To be honest, I lost any trust in news media a long time ago, but news sources trying to gaslight me about this topic is a new low.

[–]bopomofodojo 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Should medical transition for gender dysphoria be allowed? If you believe it should be allowed, why and with what restrictions (if any)?

Yes, for adults, but with hard conditions. Because the facts back up that it is not an effective treatment (does not reduce suicide rates), and constitutes a form of medical self-mutilation, it should be allowed only to adults with sound mind (i.e., one is first getting treatment for all their other inevitable mental health comorbidities, then being put under evaluation for some period of time), should not be covered by any form of socialized medicine (no "free sex changes" or "titty skittles" on anyone else's dime), should not push the person ahead of anyone else in any sort of waiting list (the FtM "but my mastectomy should come before breast cancer patients" bullshit), and should be subject to careful ethical review (no Mermaids or Tavistock pushing it as the first option on anyone without serious ethical committee backlash, e.g. losing medical licenses). I sort of waffle between a hard "no" and this position depending on how egregious the TRA community is acting that week. But the bottom line is, the evidence says it is not helpful, so it should be a last resort and cosmetic procedure. It is not "life-saving" except to the exceptionally delusional who should first be on other treatments. In short, the "truscum" viewpoint with a slightly more critical outlook

What about legal/social transition (i.e. legal documents)?

Social? You do you. Dress up in whatever clothes you want, wear make up, grow a beard, whatever. "Present" how you want. Legal? No. Born a man/woman, always a man/woman; biological sex cannot be changed and your documents should reflect this. The obsession the trans community has with passing at all costs, even down to outright fabricating their medical history (which is the logical endgame of a "legal transition") is delusional and not based in reality, and comes down to outright refusal to accept their biological sex is an immutable, fundamental trait that shapes the mind (not the other way around). This is not to mention the various issues with men "identifying as" women legally which, for all intents and purposes, entirely strips sex-based protections away. For identification purposes, post-transition, it might be worthwhile to have a driver's license or similar reflect the current reality, but stuff like rewriting birth certificates or adjusting medical charts with fake information, no.

Also any other input that may help clarify your perspective

The trans movement is glorified self-mutilation. In the same vein as tattoos, body piercing, grafting, etc. In fact I put it on par with "cut off my healthy arm due to limb dysphoria" and anorexia in terms of level of mental unwellness. The only reason it is considered at all socially and medically acceptable is the push by the TRA lobby, on the backs of the LGB community's extremely long and hard-fought battle for acceptance, for any concession for "trans" people whatsoever under the guise of faux "progressivism", because of the mantra "well we were wrong in calling gay people insane, what if we're wrong about this one too?" We're not. Being gay does not have a 95% comorbidity with 1 or (and often) more other mental health conditions that need treatment instead. It does not demand that reality subsume to the unstable whims of an individual. It is same-sex attraction, not enforced society-wide delusion.

[–]kwallio 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Here is my view, however I'm pretty sure I am pretty liberatarian on this topic and not typical of most gender critical people. I think anyone should be able to medically transition if they are over 18 and want to. I don't think children (even pubescent children) should get any hormones and surgery. I don't think insurance should be paying for it, though. And I mean insurance shouldn't be paying for any of it - no hormones, no surgeries, nothing. I think transitioning is more or less akin to cosmetic surgery and shouldn't be covered by insurance. If you want to pay for it yourself though, do whatever you want.

I don't think that people should be able to change their birth certificates. Imo the birth certificate is a record of an event. Someone changing their gender presentation years later doesn't change what happened on that day. As for other legal documents, I think a transgender category would be more appropriate? I'm really not ok with having people change their legal documents becaues for example I don't want males to be incarcerated with females and if you allow a legal document change I don't see how you can reasonably disallow those types of things if you allow legal document changes.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Should medical transition for gender dysphoria be allowed?

For adults. I don’t like it, but what I like cannot dictate what adults do with it to their own bodies. More care needs to be taken in who is given the treatment, better screening for other issues and a few frank and uncomfortable discussions about perceptions of gender and sex before getting medical interventions. Absolutely not for children.

If you believe it should be allowed, why and with what restrictions (if any)?

No access for children or teens, more intensive and sceptical screening, informed consent that is actually informed, like sit down it’s class time. No quackery or magic-bean promises from surgeons etc like putting a uterus in a male body, surgeons who practice sex reassignment cannot just bounce on a patient when they start experiencing complications.

What about legal/social transition (i.e. legal documents)?

They need to remain truthful, which means an mtf or ftm marker. Same goes for recording crime stats. The crimes of a transwoman are male crimes, and the crimes of transmen are female crimes.

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Should medical transition for gender dysphoria be allowed?

I don't like using surgery to treat psychological issues. I don't think it solves anything, and this "treatment" in particular sounds more like a barbaric placebo that doesn't really work that well anyway. That said, I think that people should have the right to do whatever they want with their bodies.

If you believe it should be allowed, why and with what restrictions (if any)?

That's the tricky part: if it's considered a treatment for a medical condition, then there should be a way to objectively prove that you need it before allowing it. We don't give chemotherapic medicine to people just because they say "I feel like I have cancer", you don't replace a cardiac valve because the patient really wants it, there are medical tests that need to be done before that. However, you can't prove, objectively, that someone suffers from dysphoria, because the diagnosis is compeltely based on people's words. So, in the end, if you want to consider it a medical treatment, nobody should get it because nobody can prove that someone suffers from it objectively. If you want to treat it as cosmetic surgery, then I don't like it any more than any other plastic surgery, but I would accept it like I accept any other cosmetic surgery.

All of that is for adults, minors shouldn't get any transitioning treatment.

What about legal/social transition (i.e. legal documents)?

Social transition: if some people are ok with playing along, that' s their prerogative, but nobody should be punished for not wanting to.

Legal transition: it shouldn't be allowed.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Everyone's said it better, but if you need response numbers, here goes.

Should medical transition for gender dysphoria be allowed?

If you believe it should be allowed, why and with what restrictions (if any)?

It should be conditionally allowed for adults, with restriction (full psych ddx aside from GD and close case supervision by a competent psych and med team, transition approved as a last-ditch procedure).

Reasoning: anxiety, depression, and personality disorders are very common in trans patient populations, desisting rates among adolescents are high, and exogenous hormones/confirmation surgery by any definition are high-risk procedures. This is how medicine is supposed to work in all other non-emergency categories -- try to establish a diagnosis, and procede from lowest risk and least invasive to higher risk and more highly invasive treatments (primary care providers and some specialists do push far too many meds, e.g. opioids; that's a related but distinct issue.)

What about legal/social transition (i.e. legal documents)?

We need to retain some documentation, somewhere, of the patient's birth sex. Medicine alone is driven by huge cumulative statistics sorted (among other things) by sex, and if we obfuscate sex, we're deliberately screwing up our public health data. Ditto sociological data. It would be kind and supportive to issue trans patients daily documentation to affirm their trans status, but I'm categorically against extending that to birth certificates or any records used by CDC, NIH, etc. to compile data. I believe we can craft policy that ensures both privacy for the patient and accuracy for the data.

Also any other input that may help clarify your perspective

I do believe GD is real. I don't necessarily think it's discreet, sufficiently understood, or diagnostic endgame. But if the entity called GD is causing pronounced suffering, we have a responsibility to better understand it and treat those who suffer from it to the best of our ability (which in the domain of mental health is currently lagging far behind our interventions for some aspects of physical health). Not-treating is abhorrent. Over-treating or surrendering gatekeeping is doing demonstrable harm. Allowing activists to drive or suppress science is out of the question -- or should have been all along.

[–]worried19 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Should medical transition for gender dysphoria be allowed? If you believe it should be allowed, why and with what restrictions (if any)?

Yes, but only as a last resort for mature adults of sound mind and body who have been properly vetted and treated by competent doctors. Absolutely no minors, and I don't believe "informed consent" is ethical treatment for adults either.

What about legal/social transition (i.e. legal documents)?

I don't think criminals or children should be allowed to legally change their sex, but aside from that I don't much care. Self ID should not be a thing, though. Some form of medical transition should be required.

I'm a moderate overall. I want trans people to have the chance to thrive and live happy, fulfilled lives, but I also want vulnerable people with mental and emotional hardships to be protected from overzealous doctors and social contagion.

[–]FlippyKingSadly this sub welcomes rape apologists and victim blaming. Bye! 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I question the use of the term "transition". Gender dysphoria sounds like a horrible thing to experience. Indulging it can not be a solution, and it very often proves to not be a solution at all. It seems people at best come to accept their reality, regardless of if they get surgery or take drugs or if the do not. But 'at best' is not always the case and it comes along with a lot of unhappiness too often.

Your asking about if it should be "allowed" is also odd to me. It is currently encouraged. Doctors are afraid to suggest anything else. Planned Parenthood gives out hormones without a doctor even seeing the person who claims a need.

I don't like how people with money, access, and attention, create a fairy-tale about their "transition" that too many adolescent girls buy into as a means to escape how much puberty sucks for them. I'm sorry, but my sympathy for AGP adult males is very limited. Because of: 1) The selfishness of well-to-do AGPs to impose their fantasies on the rest of society, including and often specifically children, and 2) the medical communities ability to recognize a quick and often never-ending buck when they see it, and 3) the porn-sick adolescent boys making life a living hell for too many adolescent girls: transition will only increase and spread the problem it pretends to fix.

No one was born in the wrong body. It is a stupid idea. No one likes their body: this has probably been true forever, but is only worse since people can look at and fantasize about about people from pictures and videos where they are made to look better than they ever would in real life. But, now "better" is morphing into not even looking human anymore. Back when people used to talk about how we need to watch out for the warning signs of fascism, more and more stringent requirements being made of manliness and womanliness was one. We ignore those signs now, maybe because we secretly realize we've been in it since the 90s, but the impossible standards push to many to seek a way out. Surgery and drugs are not a way out. Calling them transition misrepresents what would otherwise just be plastic surgery or mood (and more)-altering drugs.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"Allowed" by who? The government, insurance companies, hospital policy, medical licensing boards?