all 18 comments

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I do. I do think that knowing trans people and interacting with them has deeply influenced my views.

When I was a kid I was around a few TW often and they had a drastically different mentality than what I see and hear today. I spent most of my life thinking most trans people had a similar mentality to them (I still tend to think this, honestly).

It was interacting with the trans people who say the things that are pushed today that turned me gc.

I still see and talk to the TW from when I was a kid occasionally, I mention them here every so often, and I’ve worked with a few TW and fewer TM as an adult, and have two or three trans “friends of a friend”. Of the trans people I’ve met more recently, I only feel comfortable around two of them (to be fair off the top of my head that means there’s only like 3 trans people I know that I don’t like, and 4 (used to be 5, one died) that I care about, like, or genuinely love.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Adding on- I’ve met and encountered many trans people and the experiences have been varied, but I didn’t include them because I don’t really know them.

[–]Lizzythelezzo 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I had a similar experience where I was totally TRA, until exposure to lots of trans identified people slowly changed my views. I never changed my views because of reading TERF material - I sought out TERF articles and forums after I started questioning due to my experiences with multiple trans people in my personal life and social networks. I found the vast majority were autistic/ADHD, mentally unstable and had Cluster B disorders (notably BPD and structural dissociation), so I started wondering why and looking deeper into it.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks you so much for sharing!!! That’s interesting growing up around a TW. Do you remember how you thought about them as a child? Feel free not to answer if that is too personal. It makes sense that the mentality was different. It’s nice you at least had some positive experience. I feel like different people are transitioning than did in the past maybe or just it is all a lot more demanding than it was or both. It’s understandable that those interactions with trans people now would push you to be GC. I feel like the thing that makes me feel most ashamed for being a transsexual is that so much gaslighting, toxicity, and actual harm is coming from trans people and the movement/ideology around it now.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

My mom worked for an lgbt center and was (is still) friends with a few TW. I remember not caring or thinking anything of them being trans. They were and are great people. I had questions sometimes and they answered them honestly and as delicately as they could for a child lol. My understanding was that they were technically men but felt happier presenting as TW. I wasn’t sure what you meant by your question but I don’t mind answering lol

I feel like it’s easier to transition now and so more people are jumping to it without fully understanding what they’re getting into and a lot of those people will end up detransitioning in the future. I also think a lot of people calling themselves trans have done nothing to transition lol

What pushed me to being gc was the fact that the trans people I encountered as a kid could answer my questions in ways that make sense and the trans community now can’t do that, if they even bother to answer at all.

[–]comradeconradical 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes, several. Of both sexes and various proclivities (HSTS, AGP, and soooo many transmen)

I don't want to go into detail for fear of doxxing but knowing trans people in real life both as friends and acquaintances outside of the internet (and having discussions and debates with some of them) really cemented my gender critical views on various fronts.

It also made me more compassionate in some cases, but not at the cost of logic, truth, and my passion for female human rights.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks so much for sharing!! Out of curiosity, are in you more LGBT spaces? Feel free not to answer if that is too personal. I don’t know anything about you obviously, but I could see maybe encountering so many if you are in those spaces, but maybe even just being in a major city means you probably know quite a few now lol. I’m glad you were able to have discussions. Were trans people generally willing to debate with you or were they more hostile? I know there is a reputation that they aren’t open to debate. Meeting trans people can totally your dispel your illusions (if you had them) about gender ideology I feel like. For me, encountering trans people in support groups really erased my ability to believe in the born in the wrong body type gender ideology because of how many of them behaved. I’m glad you still feel compassion at times even you hold to your beliefs and boundaries. I wish this issue/movement didn’t encroach on women’s rights the way it does.

[–]adungitit 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nope. I barely know gender-nonconforming people irl.

I have talked with random trans people before in internet situations entirely removed from gender issues, and was always offput by how misogynistic their worldview was. I doubt that real trans people would be any different, just as I doubt that men can form massive hate groups against women that infect every space on the internet, but somehow be mostly ok irl. You get a much better view of how fucked up people's opinions are when they put them up online.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Used to speak with a few trans people regularly as a teen, however we were all involved in eating disorder themed tumblr. Outside of online spaces there are so few trans people that I’m yet to meet anyone.

[–]Lizzythelezzo 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yes, I actually know quite a few - several have been roommates, plus I know quite a few as friends/acquaintances in my social networks. I even dated one a few years ago, so I have a lot of first-hand experience with trans identified people, including FTMs, NBs and MTFs.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks so much for sharing!!! Wow, those sound like close relationships!

Feel free not to answer if this is too personal, but did this person you dated identify as trans before you started dating or did they begin identifying during the relationship? Everyone is different and I don’t know if they were FTM, NB, or MTF, but I’m just curious if there was anything super different for you compared to dating someone who wasn’t trans?

[–]Lizzythelezzo 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes the person I dated identified as trans before we met, and I hadn't really had any exposure to trans people up to that point. I had been religious for many years so it was all new to me and I was open minded.

I guess I would say their transition was like a third person in the relationship, who was a higher priority than me. So it felt like I was in a polyamorous relationship where the gender identity/transition was the primary partner and I was just the secondary partner. Also the person I dated had frequent dissociative episodes and eventually admitted they have BPD and narcissistic traits. There was a lot of self hatred and self destructive behaviour because they disliked their body, including eating disorder issues.

I have noticed all of this is very common in the trans community as a whole. Overall it was quite a dysfunctional relationship but it definitely opened up my eyes and I learned a lot.

[–]Juniperius 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes. Without thinking about it very much, I know at least six transitioning/ed transmen, plus the majority of the women in my extended social group make people call them "they" (not going to try to count them up, but there must be at least 20 ranging from good friends to people I know well enough to have a conversation with if we're at the same party). A handful of men who make people call them they, and I've met a few transwomen but not connected with them. I'm a Lesbian, and I'm involved in activism, (mostly unrelated to gender or sex based issues, it's not because I'm seeking trans people out), that's just how it is. I'm not out as GC. I avoid pronouns altogether in speech as much as possible but use their expected ones if it's unavoidable. Other than that, I treat them like everyone else. I prefer not to interact much with male people if I can help it, make friends with female people (regardless of trans status) whenever possible.

The first trans person I met was in highschool, about 1996. Someone told me in passing that she was trans and was going to "get a sex change" (as people said back then) as soon as she was old enough, and in the meantime people treated her more or less "like a guy," but of course she lived in a girl's dorm. I really didn't think about her much at all, everyone totally took it in stride and she didn't call attention to herself.

[–]gloomy_bear 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I knew two fmts they were pretty nice people, one was "gay" (heterosexual) and the other was "pansexual" (bisexual), and I had no issues with them. I think they were truly transsexual, unlike the auto transvestites that are terminally online. The terminally online ones are weird, ditto with the autogynephillic transvestites in political power. I consider myself a GNC person, but I feel comfortable with my biological sex; I dunno why they think every GNC individual is transsexual.

[–]worried19 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not in real life. I only know trans people from the debate sub.

[–]censorshipment 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No but I grew up around black gay males who partially lived as women (transvestites, I guess, not drag queens) and were loved by black bi women, such as my mom, and black straight women who loved effeminate gay men. If you're familiar with the tv series P (Pussy) Valley... the Uncle Clifford character is the type of black gay male I interacted with as a child. They were the only males I felt safe around. I was constantly told straight men, not gay men, would molest me. I trusted my mom's "trans" (gnc, homosexual) friends.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A neighbor of mine is a trans man. I know another trans man I met at a social group and I know a trans woman who also happens to be autistic and she is an autism, disability and LGBT activist and I met her in activist circles. I had a co-worker who was a trans woman.

[–]makesyoudownvote 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)


I'm somewhat bisexual and when I was in my teens and 20s I was REALLY sexual and REALLY liberal. I'm still liberal in fact, but the left is less liberal than the right at this point imo. Democrats haven't been liberal for at least a decade despite the fact we often call the left "liberal".

I think I personally know at least 150 actual trans people, and that's not including people who I would call trans trenders and gender flux and other forms of gender non-conforming.

I take absolutely no issue with people who simply want to live their lives as the gender that corresponds to the opposite sex.

I take issue with the fact we have to pretend that they are not actually the sex they were born. We all know they are. Their body still is. I don't like being gaslit or coerced into pretending they are not. As I see it the bathroom debate is actually part of this. Bathrooms have nothing to do with what you identify as or how you feel inside, they are based on your physical sex. Urinals are for if you have a penis only, so the bathroom with a urinal works for you if you have a penis. Women's bathrooms have little trash cans in them because women menstruate and have to dispose of the sanitary napkins. Putting these in both bathrooms takes up resources for cleaning staff who now have to work twice as hard. Apart from this I don't really care what bathroom you use, it (should be) a free country.

I take issue with the concept of compelled speech. This is an inherently NON-LIBERAL value. If I wanna call someone a she, whether they are actually male, or female. I don't care if they are a trans-man, trans-woman, cis-man, or cis-woman or anything else. I can call them whatever I want. That is free speech, and free thought. Same goes for any other word, hateful or not. Now do I deserve certain repercussions if I am clearly doing so just to be a jerk, yeah, but not from the government, and not for any speech platform.

Also I think the other problem I have is that the trans gender argument flies in the face of the feminist argument, and no one except TERFs seem to realize it. Either gender means something or it doesn't. If it doesn't than "trans" doesn't mean anything either, if it does, then we need a cohesive definition.