Update from r/GC Mods on Twitter: "busily working on a new site which will restore our opportunity to speak freely about issues that concern women."

submitted by [deleted] from self.GenderCritical

https://twitter.com/rGenderCritical/status/1279123784893698048

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[–]marmorsymphata 45 insightful - 2 fun45 insightful - 1 fun46 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

Nice. It's not so comfortable sitting here on Saidit where we have to brush shoulders with antisemites and such.

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I completely hear you.

[–]jet199 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

Funny because I never saw an antisemitic posts downvoted on GC subs just so long as it had a leftist veneer.

I often was the only person who reported them.

[–]oldpinewoods 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I've never seen an antisemitic post on GC.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've seen them, but they were taken down. Antisemitic posts were everywhere on reddit. I was constantly reporting them.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Wow, did it really get to that point? I honestly had to distance myself from the sub due to a troubling increase in content with thinly veiled racism. Some may say this isn't a big deal but hate is hate even if it's whispered. I know GCers come from a variety of backgrounds but I hope hateful people will be kept out this time around. Some GC women are Jewish, Muslim, black, etc. and deserve to feel welcomed too. Islam doesn't necessarily have to be used as a force for misogyny just as Christianity doesn't have to either. I don't think it makes sense to say one is incompatible with feminism while the other isn't.

[–]Sebell 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The Islam sub has a post up that some of the "2000" banned subs were Muslim subs that "includes a lot of subreddits that literally just posted photos of mosques, updates to prayer times and local Muslim celebrations and positive news coming from various locales."

They also claim that subreddits that promote mass killings of Muslims have been left untouched.

I found another place that says againsthatesubreddits targeted them, but the post I found there was just "yay they are banned" with no description why.

[–]Stand 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Agreed. You should see my feed lol.

[–]marmorsymphata 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I would mute s/conspiracy, but I saw a post on there about them supposedly finding a preserved giant's toe and I don't have the heart to shut myself off from more potential hilarity

[–]HermioneGranger 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I find Ruqqus better

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Where do you go on there? I just logged in to check it out.

[–]HermioneGranger 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

+GenderCritical (obviously)

+TumblrInAction

+XXMemes

+Woman

+PinkPill

and stuff like

+Landscapes

+Art

etc

[–][deleted] 25 insightful - 2 fun25 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 2 fun -  (17 children)

I'd love a main site with a forum format, but we should also maintain a presence wherever we can, even Reddit. So many people, myself included, discover GC by accident when TRAs scream shut up or punch a t--- like they've won by threatening a woman in silence. Saidit's been fine mostly, the porn ban's great. The free speech aspect is a bonus as long as we're able to ban trolling. It's just kind of empty except for free speechers and conspiracy theorists. From hearsay, it looks like the hardcore undesirables are on Voat.

[–]venecia 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I agree, we should have both! I like it here and it seems that as long as the sidebar is transparent about what kind of content is allowed, trolls and off topic posters (like the weird ones bringing up anti-anti-semitism constantly) can be banned.

[–]Aletheia 11 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

This is what I've been trying to say here the whole time... Spinster is great, and if there is rad.fem. website by GC mods currently being developed - great. But we shouldn't abandon this platform (or a similar one, if a popular reddit alternative arises) simply for the reason of being able to reach out to new people. Very few people randomly browse radical feminist websites, much less join them - especially if they can't see the content (such as is in Spinster's case) - which means they easily lead into becoming echo chambers for select few. We must be open-minded enough to tolerate different view points, it is a bit ironic to complain about being censored while simultaneously wanting to censor others or simply distance into places where dissenting opinions can't be heard. Remember, many found GC sub reddit by coming to "hate-read" it and laugh at the bigots, until eventually changing their mind...

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, I tried Spinster and it looks like a tumblr/twitter to me. Unless it's the only place we have, I'll skip it. I don't like its format, but more power to whoever who does. We need a space wherever we can get. Furthermore, maybe it's because I'm not familiar with Spinster, but it seems very hard to just stumble upon it which is something important we need to keep. We don't want to be "othered" out of existence while giving TRA ideology free reign across the mainstream and we pat ourselves on the back in echo chambers. I don't believe in safetyism. Exactly about the hate-read.

[–]MadLass 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yup spinster is ok but its impossible to have topics and discussions there. Im not thrilled with saidit either. To be completely honest losing reddit is a huge blow to the rad fem GC community. People arene going to be able to find like minded anymore. I take solace knowing many will silently disagree with how far TRA have gone at least.

[–]lucretiamott 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I agree. I got shamed on spinster for continuing to use reddit, but I think why reddit was such an important space for us was it is HUGE. A lot of women are on there to look at cat pics, etc and stumble across GC ideas they never knew existed. Trans dogma is so universal at this point that many girls and women are completely unaware of the existence of our side, although it aligns with their beliefs much better. They may even think they're the only people who feel that way, and then everything clicks one they discover GC. But that's how quiet our voices are in the big scheme and why it's so important to have a presence in a mainstream forum.

I'm as excited as anyone else that GC is setting up shop elsewhere but let's not fool ourselves that it's going to be a niche echochamber and hard for people to discover it, unlike reddit where there was tons of crosspollination happening.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think it's realistic to avoid reddit if you have any hobbies or like to look at cat pics. You should totally continue using reddit with full ad-blockers on or just lurk, though they'll probably still make some money selling your data. If we don't have anyone there, how will we monitor what's happening? At least when you see it, you can defend us with an alt account. A more motivated GCer could pretend to be a man and be wherever the TRAs and misogynists are. Great point about crosspollination, I feel the same. I don't want us "othered" while TRA ideology gets the mainstream treatment when realistically, they're not.

[–]MenAreFragileBabies 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I dunno, I am really offended by a lot of what is being written here. There was a post I saw when browsing s/all that was about how woke white women are so easily led, but why don't they understand their opinions are unattractive. Then bemoaned the supposition that black men are probably sleeping with a lot of them now.

All the comments in response were so awful and just as objectifying. I don't want to be anywhere near people like that. Just because it isn't as bad as voat doesn't make it OK.

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Just think of them as conspiracy theorists. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. There's no such thing as free speech for me but not for thee.

[–]MenAreFragileBabies 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I know what they are, and I am very uncomfortable being on their platform.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We all have our own tolerances. That's why Spinster and maybe the new site will be great because we do need some truly women's only spaces. Personally, I think the population here is much less scary than the reddit one since the no porn ban leaves more of the conspiracy theory type misogynist who's not focused on women rather than MRAs and incels. And everyone seems to stay in their own corner mostly - not always trying to shut us down - which is great to me.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hell yes. They allowed mainstream media to call GC a "hate sub". I would NOT trust them in terms of keeping an account with them. I made another thread on this. They're up to no good. I don't trust them in terms of doxxing us or playing games with our accounts.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I dunno, I am really offended by a lot of what is being written here. There was a post I saw when browsing s/all that was about how woke white women are so easily led, but why don't they understand their opinions are unattractive. Then bemoaned the supposition that black men are probably sleeping with a lot of them now.

All the comments in response were so awful and just as objectifying. I don't want to be anywhere near people like that. Just because it isn't as bad as voat doesn't make it OK.

I see going back to reddit as going back to an abusive man. Why give him any more of your precious time? He obviously hates women!

[–]Realwoman 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Is porn banned on saidit?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes!

[–]Realwoman 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Great, I hope one day it will be banned on all mainstream websites.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'd love a main site with a forum format, but we should also maintain a presence wherever we can, even Reddit.

I say no. Don't contribute to reddit's user base and profit. They're also up to no good, resurrecting an old account of mine that I had deleted over two years ago! I deleted my posts and account and now they're magically back up again, and I can't access the account to delete it, nor will reddit reply to my inquiry as to why it was brought back to life!

[–]BuboTitan 20 insightful - 2 fun20 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

But if you set up on a stand alone site, you won't draw in people from the outside they way you did on Reddit.

[–]Smurfette 21 insightful - 3 fun21 insightful - 2 fun22 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Better than fearing daily that the community will be deleted by a man who had his feelings hurt.

This is going to be a space that is women owned so that men can’t destroy it.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Better than fearing daily that the community will be deleted by a man who had his feelings hurt.

This is going to be a space that is women owned so that men can’t destroy it.

I agree. I'm disappointed so many people are willing to go back there. They're obviously dangerous for women. I made a thread that there's some shady shit going on with an account I deleted nearly TWO YEARS AGO. It's as if they hacked my own old account, or made it active again against my wishes.

[–]Realwoman 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yeah, that's my biggest concern

[–]genradfem 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I never would have discovered this place had it not been for Reddit. And now with JKRowling more and more people who are intereested in this can't look it up on reddit. We are losing precious time by not being on there right now, and we are losing most of potential members by not being on a site that attracts a lot of people at all. Being a parr of this for a long time you forget there are people who know nothing about it. And those people won't go that far to research it. They want to get to what they're mildly interested in by the click of a mouse. That's how you draw people in.

[–]OrangeFirefly 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think this is true, especially if people write it off as a niche site for feminists. Those who don't regard themselves as 'feminist ' or think that women are overreacting to the whole thing won't bother going there.

That said, a site run by GC women would at least not risk being taken down.

I guess a three-pronged approach might work? 2 1. Continue to drop GC points into conversations on reddit and other boards which are not GC but which have a wide reach. 2. Encourage people to use fora like saidit and parler to help bring them into the mainstream and not just a gathering ground for conspiracy theorists and extremists. 3. Look for places which are pro-women and hosted by GC women to exchange information and receive support.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Reddit just feels like a lost cause. r/askwomenover30 now also is going down the drain with the only active mod going full anti terf (see sticky) and bans women who dare call out a man posting women unfriendly posts and posts about removing womens only subs.

[–]Lilith_Fair 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I hope they keep doing this until there are no women left on that shit site and it gets exposed for what is is, a women hating men's site.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you. Going back to reddit is like going back to an abusive boyfriend. You're only handing them money by going back on their site, while also exposing yourself to hacking/doxxing. If you want to reach women, there are multiple other forms of social media that can work.

[–]MenAreFragileBabies 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

People will still hear about the site in a similar ways. I only learned about GC from TRAs who were going off about T*RFs. That led me to google it which led me to GC.

[–]BettysBitterButter 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, Reddit's abysmally poor search function means people will always Google what they want to look up.

[–]jet199 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You don't get many women on reddit either though.

Many women only join reddit for one sub and avoid the rest.

It'd be better to have something on the more female heavy sites.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Honestly I don't think that's true. TRAs will still bitch about terf and GC, people will look it up and see sanity

[–]millicentfawcett 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

I really hope this works out. I'm interested to know how it will be tackled because it won't be easy.

Spinster has worked so far because the fediverse is decentralised and the code open source, despite that a huge number of other instances in the fediverse have blocked Spinster to their users and vice versa.

A more traditional forum will be harder. I know most of us here won't be fans of Kiwi Farms but it's a good example of a standalone site that's constantly targeted for takedown. As I understand it the owner had to set up his own hosting company and servers - that's the first thing people target if you're using 3rd party hosting. I'm not clear how he finances this because all avenues of monetising the site have been blocked - ad services won't work with the site, payment processors blocked, banned from all sites like Patreon, merchandising a non starter (see payment processors). I believe he eventually left the US and lives somewhere in Eastern Europe, I presume to escape being targeted and perhaps so the site sits outside of other jurisdictions.

In the current climate I struggle to see how a start up Gender Critical site is going to make it. Mumsnet is just about hanging on because it's been established about 20 years, probably has it's own servers at this point and the feminism board is only one part of the overall business. Even so the situation is precarious and the withdrawal of some advertising and partnerships a blow to the business model.

I'm full of admiration for their ambitions but I feel like it's going to need a big injection of capital to survive the first year or so (anyone have JKR's number?!!!!)

[–]Haunter 12 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 3 fun -  (11 children)

Mr. Moon finances the Kiwi Farms mainly through contributions from its users and the occasional sale of merch, the latter being the way he recently covered the cost of a new server and its installation. He ordinarily pulls in about $1,800 a month in pledges. He gets additional revenue from his 1776 Hosting company and freelance coding gigs.

He moved to Ukraine, then Poland, then Serbia mainly because he can live comfortably there on only about $500 a month. Visa restrictions mean he can only stay in a country for a limited amount of time, hence the moves. All of his assets including his servers and his bank accounts remain in the U.S.

A couple of years ago, he threw the Kiwi Farms open to GC'ers forced off of other forums and the existing members there largely accepted the newcomers as somewhat kindred spirits. You're free to express any kind of opinion there as long as you're not advocating something illegal in the U.S. (where hate speech is not illegal, so feel free to use biologically accurate pronouns), but you do have to read enough to learn the culture before you begin posting so you don't disrupt the forum.

Moon would probably host a separate GC site at reasonable cost and protect it from takedown attempts. He made that offer to Gallus Mag when Wordpress took down her site and tried to withhold even her archives. She didn't take him up on the offer, probably for the same reason many other GC'ers wouldn't want to. But it remains an option. I don't know what arrangements she made for her revived site, but asking her about that might surface a good option.

[–]millicentfawcett 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for the explanation. I was wrong about a few things but I think the fact he has found a way to live 'outside the system' is relevant. If he wasn't self employed I've no doubt he'd be fired. I have no idea about the lives of the women setting up the GC site though so perhaps they have means of being independent enough to do it.

[–]Haunter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Nah. I wasn't contradicting anything you posted - just expanding on it. One particularly important point you made that I should have re-emphasized is that the achilles heel has proven to be the payment processors. Moon has been able to best all of the technical challenges thrown at him, but can't surmount a financial blockade.

His most recent merch run was halted two or three times for that very reason. Though Dick Masterson (@thedickshow) was able to supply a way out of the trap, that was short-lived and would be an unlikely source of help for a site by and for women. I hope the GC team succeeds.

[–]writerlylesbian 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I don't think Gallus ever did revive GenderTrender, even just as an archive. I assume it would have been too difficult to reconstruct from what she had left. She'd also been keeping the site going for a long time - I think it was over 7 years by the time our lovely Yaniv finally got her. She'd gone through multiple doxing attempts, had to moderate shit tons of abusive comments every day, nearly lost the blog on several earlier occasions because of targeted harassment. I think she may have been at a point where she was ready to retire, and it was very well earned. That site did a similar job of consciousness raising and giving women and LGB people a space to talk about the TRAs and their antics, at a time when the discussion was happening absolutely nowhere else.

[–]weirdthorn 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

https://www.gendertrending.com/

[–]writerlylesbian 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I stand corrected! Great to see that archive.

[–]Haunter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That MeowMix has survived on Wordpress since November despite repeated challenges from Yaniv may show that Wordpress learned a lesson after destroying the original Gendertrender, not that they'll ever admit it.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Never new that place existed! Honestly, I prefer that kind of old-school forum setup, but I guess I'm aging myself.

[–]Thatstealthygal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I can't support that guy after he refused to take down video of a mass murder.

[–]WrongToy 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That video showed that the murderer went through a mass murder, meandered back to his car, went down a street SHOOTING OUT his own windows and then apparently went somewhere else, all without cop response for at least 10 minutes.

That video was also requisitioned by at least four PD departments. Did Moon tell them to torrent no, he sent them a DVD copy.

Josh did not appreciate the NZ police telling him that he had to not only take down that video but also provide them with the whole KF database of users interacting the week before. THAT is why he told them to FO and I would have also.

[–]Haunter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's worth noting that Moon got the video from an wide-open public page on Facebook. Facebook faced no consequence for having provided the mass murderer with a global platform.

[–]Thatstealthygal 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah they should have for sure.

[–]Coconaut 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I hope it's something cool and well moderated. lots of low effort memes here. also keep out the men. it should be a space for women.