Self ID'ing - and a few thought questions on it

submitted by mambean from self.GenderCritical

So, to go over my personal issues I have with self-identification of a gender. Mainly on how by extension it tends to erase lesbian and gay sexuality and pressure them into taking labels in fear of being unprogressive.

I want to go over some thought provoking questions/scenarios based on some things I've witnessed in person and/or seen people talk about:

Case 1: Say John is a TIM (trans woman), they initially identified as a gay male and had a gay male partner, Joe. John decides his name is now Jill and wishes to live as a heterosexual female, however John decides not to transition and is instead a "masc woman". Would Joe suddenly be unattractive to John, would this make Joe bisexual if he continued to like John?

In this case, Joe updated his sexuality to bisexual or pansexual (even though he is not really attracted to natal women) to justify his like for John and not invalidate his identity. He doesn't want to seem impolite or dismissive to John as he likes him very much.

Case 2: A non-trans lesbian, Susan, is at a bar and she spots a woman she finds physically attractive. This second woman's name is Olivia, they strike up a conversation with each other and find there's chemistry. Olivia mentions she is non-binary, but Susan only likes women, but is still attracted to Olivia. Olivia looks like a woman and they found a lot they bonded over.

Susan wants to mention she is a lesbian, but hesitates however Olivia states she is a lesbian too! Olivia states demigirls non-binaries like herself can also be lesbian and recommends Susan to look up polysexuality. Susan decides she is a polysexual since she can now include lesbian girls and "non-binary girls" in her label, but she avoids the non-binary "men" subconciously. Probably because she's a lesbian?

Case 3: Tracy identifies as queer. She's technically bisexual but she does not like dating natal men due to her negative experience with them. On her dating bio she writes, "No men! I only date NB people and women". She she feels like the men who identify as non-binary within the queer community are less threatening because they're left wing though she doesn't always date them.

However one day she forms a crush on a trans man (a TIF), she wants to profess so - but she realizes that she'll have to retract the fact she does not date men. The TIF woman exclaims, "Oh, I'm a demiboy", Tracy is relieved she doesn't have to retract her statement on only dating queer people.

I've noticed these kinds of scenarios over and over again, and it explains a lot on why people choose specific labels to navigate around things.

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[–]peregrine_throw 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, current trans ideology is homophobic. Sexual orientation is de-legitimized when the concept of sex is erased; the definition of gay/lesbian is free-for-all as long as they feel like one.

Trans ideology/self-id has more in common with the equally homophobic religious/conservatives, proving their prescription that a lesbian just needs to find the right dick to set herself straight (one attached to a "woman", apparently), and a gay man just needs the right male vagina.

[–]kardamom 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

you seem to misunderstand self ID. the idea is not that being gay/trans/asexual/whatever is defined by identifying as such. gay still means loving the same sex, trans still means having dysphoria, asexual still means not wanting all of the things that typically come with close human relationships.

it's just that the "diagnosis", the process of assigning someone one or more of these labels, can in praxis only come from within the person that the labels are being assigned to. you can't go to the doctor, fill out some form and they assign you your sexuality. you're gay if you say so; of course one could be confused or lying, but the social norm dictates that these statements are simply accepted. and there is no other practical way to handle these things, even for trans people psychologists can only judge you by the things you tell them.

[–]mambean[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

trans still means having dysphoria

Actually in many circles now, stating this would get one called a transmedicalist or a tucute which is bad enough to get people cancelled now as "gatekeepers". The TRA updated the definition of trans to mean "anyone who identifies as a man or woman" regardless of dysphoria or not. You don't need dysphoria, or surgery to be trans.

Now in the context of same sex attraction, at some point we called it same-sex attraction because it was just that, but now I find a lot of people are doing what the people (in my examples) are doing right now, which kind of confirms (for me, anyway) that attraction is sex based, not someone's self identified gender.