So the guardian is cutting jobs and "dying" and rad fems are being blamed? What?

submitted by inneedofspace from self.GenderCritical

It's like trans allies don't fully understand just how delusional this all sounds to the rest of the world. I don't want to celebrate or anything but just saying you can't deny science because your echo chamber agreed that it's ok and call everything you disagree with a "social construct" and expect people to continue to support you. You'd think at some point someone would at least try to understand why exactly "t**fs" are s pissed. Anyways it's nice to know they believe enough women see the issue in denying biology and the rest of reality to pull their support.

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[–]LilianH 57 insightful - 15 fun57 insightful - 14 fun58 insightful - 15 fun -  (17 children)

We are simultaneously both a tiny minority of right-wing women while also being a large enough group to bring down a major left-wing newspaper by not reading it.

[–]SillyMoneyGoose 32 insightful - 2 fun32 insightful - 1 fun33 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

If I remember correctly, in ‘Ur-Fascism’ Umberto Eco said that fascist groups always need an enemy to fight, and it needs to be at the same time powerful and scary (to unite followers and convince them violence is necessary) and small and ludicrous (so it’s rightfully mocked, and can be won)

[–][deleted] 21 insightful - 3 fun21 insightful - 2 fun22 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

https://twitter.com/pennyb/status/1283759102284439556 retweet by Elle Hunt another guardian person

So they're accusing mumsnet for brigading and sock puppeting, it certainly can't be normal people speaking out. Trolls, bots, nazis, alt-right, transphobes, certainly everyone who disagrees with the a TRA is the ultimate evil /s

[–]wooger 24 insightful - 5 fun24 insightful - 4 fun25 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Pointing to Mumsnet as a hive of racists / transphobes is a sure sign that someone is out of touch with reality.

Yes all the mothers I know have time to engage in furious online vitriol out of spite 🙄

[–]wicklesnarf 12 insightful - 10 fun12 insightful - 9 fun13 insightful - 10 fun -  (1 child)

"Mumsnet have ordered a swarm" is killing me. It makes them sound so militant, like they sit around sipping tea and comparing diaper bags until an alarm goes off and they slap their helmets on and run into the streets, sprinting straight to Guardian HQ

Mumsnet, what an intimidating nemesis to have

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's A-OK for their own to dox, brigade, harass women, to infiltrate social media sites and push their agenda, but god FORBID women speak up as a group.

[–]RiverSong 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think they still rely on women turning on each other, rather than women supporting other women. It usually works to pit women against each other, so they are baffled when all of a sudden we seem to stand up for our rights together.

[–]PassionateIntensity 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Aaand I'm blocked from even reading that link, because of course I am. lol

[–]Archie 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Right-wing? Even with all the trans bullshit, I can't ever be right-wing in any country where the right-wing threatens access to abortion. It's simply secondary.

And there's also sex ed, street harassment... Where the right wing general is not really aligned with feminism? We need to push back the trans bullshit away from the left, it is doable as the majority agrees with us and they still are much better allies. I don't know how the new place is, but most of r/gendercritical seemed left-wing.

[–]Omina_Sentenziosa 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

We disagree with the concept that men can be women, so they call us right wingers and nazis.

It is of course ridicoulous, but it's all part of their smear campaign to paint us as evil and them as the harmless, enlightened force of good.

[–]Archie 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes but they're utterly wrong. We absolutely have to denu their bullshit, and denying that being sane about biological sex makes us right wingers/nazis is a part of it. We can embrace the "TERF" term because it is new, but if we start embracing being called something we're not, it will become impossible to spread our ideology to normal people.

[–]PassionateIntensity 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They're lying, and they know they're lying. Don't try to make sense of it, you'll drive yourself crazy.

[–]Ayeemmaperson 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Right wing??

[–]jjdub7Gay Male Guest Commentator 14 insightful - 5 fun14 insightful - 4 fun15 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

The post-2016 woke solar flares have sent the political compass into a frenzy, essentially creating what was referred to 10 years ago on the left as a "durable coalition" of different groups, just on the right this time.

Above all else, wokeness neds to be defeated so the nation can shelve the social media guillotine and get back to actually addressing policy, etc.

[–]SpatOuttheKoolaid 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

They're burning the Harry Potter series, but we're "right wing" for asking questions. They cannot fathom the idea that most of us are left leaning.

[–]LilianH 8 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Oh yes, anyone who isn't 100% aboard the trans train must be a right-wing conservative. There is no other logical explanation.

[–]writerlylesbian 45 insightful - 5 fun45 insightful - 4 fun46 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

That twitter thread is a gift. On the one hand, lots of sensible women and a few men saying they can't support the Guardian because of their consistent misogyny, bullying, mis-reporting, selective silencing of viewpoints, homophobia (sending a lesbian on a blind date with a TW which turned into a massive clusterfuck), and so on.

And then on the other hand, hardcore TRAs who are saying the Guardian is not a good enough ally, and is transphobic. When the Guardian has gone all-in on the brave new world of trans.

Just goes to show, no matter how much you sell yourself out, no matter how much of a pathetic, grovelling organisation/publication you become, it will never be enough for some.

[–]inneedofspace[S] 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree, they're some of the most vocal allies out there even silenced a co-editor choosing feelings over facts and they aren't satisfied, they're seriously becoming a cult, you must agree with trans advocates at all times or you're not good enough, there's no room for discussion even when it comes to science.

[–]meranii 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Give an inch, they'll take a mile (while calling you hateful for not offering every last mile you have).

[–]Anandamide 26 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 0 fun27 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The Guardian woked itself out of existence. We didn't have to do a damn thing but sit back and watch it devour itself. The fact that the paper is wildly out of touch with the British populace, as evinced by their utter failure to see the Tory train steamroll Labour in the last election and constant demeaning of anyone who isn't a London-based remainer. Their tonedeaf articles helped tear down the red wall and now they want to blame us? K. If Owen Jones throws another tantrum, make sure to record and share it.

[–]SameOldBS 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

C4 news going the same way, sadly. And the New Statesman not far behind.

[–]vitunrotta 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Was this on The Guardian somewhere? This cutting of jobs and dying because of radfems? Any links? (Trust me, I think the site is as biased as any - but I still want the facts ;))

[–]inneedofspace[S] 26 insightful - 2 fun26 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

It's all unfolding on twitter the music editor of gaurdian who signed a petition to silence one of the women editors asked that people continue to support the news platform is now backtracking due to so many comments about his denial of biology. I'm trying to find the specific tweets blaming terfs (too lazy to use imgur). To be fair there are (fewer) people calling guardian transphobic and blaming that for the lost.

Edit: Here's the a quote: "To the cis women who feel betrayed by the Guardian's coverage of trans issues: I'm genuinely saddened to have lost you as everyone working here wants to fight misogyny, sexism and patriarchal power/bullshit. (5/10)"

And another: "I signed the letter in the wake of Suzanne Moore's column because I thought she mis-characterised the fight for trans rights as denying women's rights. I respect debate and part of that is calling out something I don't agree with. She isn't silenced, nor would I want that."

[–]Spikygrasspod 28 insightful - 4 fun28 insightful - 3 fun29 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Oh, what a coincidence. I withdrew my support for them after seeing their lovely 'neutral' coverage of JKRowling. I told them to shove it.

[–]vitunrotta 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Oh god, I am not on Twitter, I don't know how things escalated and because of what. If you would provide me with a bit more context? And link the tweets? Much appreciated :)

[–]inneedofspace[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Sorry, I just edited the above comment for more context here it is again.

Edit: Here's the a quote from one of guardians editors: "To the cis women who feel betrayed by the Guardian's coverage of trans issues: I'm genuinely saddened to have lost you as everyone working here wants to fight misogyny, sexism and patriarchal power/bullshit. (5/10)" And another: "I signed the letter in the wake of Suzanne Moore's column because I thought she mis-characterised the fight for trans rights as denying women's rights. I respect debate and part of that is calling out something I don't agree with. She isn't silenced, nor would I want that."

I wanted to post screenshots but I'm using a new computer that isn't really user friendly. Here's the link. https://twitter.com/ben_bt

[–]vitunrotta 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I respect debate

...is something that a true TRA would never say seriously. :D Thanks for the added context/links. I found one of their writers (Owen Jones) always completely unbearable, even before this TRA/superwoke - wave.

Oh and, from Ben Beaumont-Thomas' Twitter account (lurkers will lurk...), this beautifully put sentence: "I never denied biological reality; I supported valid gender identity in the face of hostility to it. I want all women to be safe and have a voice." So which is it? You didn't deny biology OR you supported gender ideology? Because it cannot fucking be both. Come on Ben, enough of that Kool Aid. You went to a goddamn university (I presume!) to become a JOURNALIST and this utter trite is what you write? Shame. SHAME.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You're not debating. You are dictating to women from a position of entitled ignorance in a manner entirely representative of the sexism of those who don't understand feminism, won't listen to women, and won't try and understand why what they're saying is sexist.

You can stand by what you re saying. You are going to destroy the once venerable institution you work for with this arrogance and contempt and we'll all be sad about it. But there's nothing we can do. Because you plainly have not one whit of interest in understanding the problem.

One of the top replies to above.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

https://twitter.com/ben_bt/status/1283704333977223169

The ten points of mansplaining womenhood by a misogynist

[–]sisterinsomnia 15 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

He sounds well-meaning and like someone who has never really questioned the issue beyond a very superficial glance and the desire to support a marginalized minority. That this particular marginalized minority has rather wide-reaching plans of erasing the female body (but not the male body) and so on is not visible after only a superficial glance. I know because I traveled from where he is to where I am now, and it is "educating" myself by reading writings on both sides which led me here...

[–]writerlylesbian 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

If someone is in charge of a major news outlet, it is their actual job to investigate and understand the nuances of issues. If he didn't do that, then he was shit at his job. And it's not unreasonable to assume that someone who is shit at their job will drive their newspaper into the ground. Maybe he shouldn't have been shit at his job, hey?

Edit: And also, maybe he shouldn't be trying to unload his failure do adequately do his job onto other people, namely women. What an entitled fucking git.

[–]sisterinsomnia 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Agreed. But so far the costs of not going along with the most extreme online trans activism have been very high and the costs of not going along with gender critical views have been zero. Rather, nice rewards come from the latter. So progressive journalists, even the ones who may have delved into this topic and might secretly agree with us or at least be indifferent, find that it is in their interest to be openly for any argument trans activists present.

I am not defending him at all but just thinking of why the situation is as it is. There probably are many progressive journalists (there are many feminists like this, too!) who truly believe in all the most extreme trans rights arguments, but some, at least do not, and their motivations are probably a desire not to be attacked.

[–]NecessaryScene1 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But so far the costs of not going along with the most extreme online trans activism have been very high and the costs of not going along with gender critical views have been zero. Rather, nice rewards come from the latter.

Yes, if the costs/rewards you're thinking are what sort of dinner parties and social events you get invited to as part of the establishment.

Unfortunately journalists need the general populace to buy the newspapers to pay their wages, and politicians need the general populace to vote for them.

This lot are so entrenched in their bubble that they can't grasp that what they're doing is costing them their actual livelihoods.

Jo Swinson, the former leader of Liberal Democrats, lost her seat at the last election because she couldn't manage to say what a woman was. (Her loss was by a small margin, so there's no way that shitshow of an interview didn't push her over the edge).

They are paying the price, but they're in denial about it.

[–]inneedofspace[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah I'll give him that the conversation has to start somewhere I'm just annoyed with his final tweet like he see's the issue but he's going to brush it off anyway.

[–]sisterinsomnia 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Maybe he doesn't want to be seen as a TERF because of the verbal violence which will then follow? This side of the issues is easier to ignore as we really are less violent. This Twitter debate may be his first experience of even being directly challenged on these questions. But yes, he should be willing to continue the debate and "go educate himself" as many wokeratis tell others.

[–]RoundFork 11 insightful - 5 fun11 insightful - 4 fun12 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

So they finally realized that the people on Twitter don’t represent the people who pay for news?

That they don’t represent the people who contribute to the economy?

[–]Lyssa 8 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

"Wait, 24/7 twitterati with manga avatars and made up pronouns do not buy 9 out of 10 newspapers and online accounts???"

Who would have thought.

[–]jjdub7Gay Male Guest Commentator 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I (conservative gay male) got called a TERF on Reddit this morning by a transvangelist.

They're brigading r/AskGayBros now, planting false flags about Cotton Ceiling bullshit and collecting the refutations as evidence of "hate".

Do you think its more likely that they believe only radical feminists oppose trans ideology or that they've utterly bastardized the term "radical feminist" to be synonymous with "transphobe"?

[–]jet199 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The Open Society (Soros) gave the Guardian £250k to publish positive trans stories with no opposing voices.

Apparently an article is in the works with all the evidence.

https://twitter.com/lubelluledotcom/status/1283713911892697088?s=19

https://amp.theguardian.com/info/2020/feb/05/about-this-content?__twitter_impression=true

So basically they have taken part in a lobbying campaign towards the British chattering classes rather than printing news stories or even just opinion. They are no longer a paper anyone can trust.

If people have worked this out for themselves and stopped reading that is a very positive sign and those people need cheering not to be told off by entitled rich kids playing at student politics well after university.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The more I read about it, the more it seems they are laying off people because advertisers have pulled money from them due the pandemic. Which is an understandable consequence of the pandemic. Individual donations have actually risen, but I guess even when they are losing jobs they will still blame women because of men’s actions because that’s the type of trash they are. Seriously worthless. Hope the fold soon.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Lol..so what? They want to guilt us for fighting for our rights. If they were so true and speaking for a majority then our boycott wouldn’t have mattered and wouldn’t have caused even a ripple. The fact that it mattered should have given them pause. But sounds like they are doubling down on their sexist narrative and throwing women under the bus. Hope they fold, fuckers.

Edit: that said though it doesn’t seem like they are blaming us for the job cuts but at the pandemic. Even large tech companies with cash to spare are cutting jobs. Not sure who is blaming us for it, tbh.

[–]slushpilot 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

call everything you disagree with a "social construct"

Furthermore, what if it is a social construct... some things are actually good social constructs.

[–]immersang 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

The best summary I read of this on Twitter earlier today:

The Guardian is like an ex who drove you away with constant insults, laughed when you left, and is now drunk on your lawn screaming YOU RUINED MY LIFE SUSAN

[–]PassionateIntensity 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'll happily take the credit if they go out of business for hating women.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's bullshit. Twitter is a shitshow and tons of women are giving them hell. I had no idea how far this bizarre ideology has gone in the UK until now. I'm sure GC had threads about this, but to be honest I didn't read them and never really understood how it could be a threat until now.

[–]OrneryStruggle 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Wait what? Can anyone explain what is happening?

[–]inneedofspace[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It's all unfolding on twitter the music editor of gaurdian who signed a petition to silence one of the women editors asked that people continue to support the news platform is now backtracking due to so many comments about his denial of biology.

Edit: Here's the a quote: "To the cis women who feel betrayed by the Guardian's coverage of trans issues: I'm genuinely saddened to have lost you as everyone working here wants to fight misogyny, sexism and patriarchal power/bullshit. (5/10)"

And another: "I signed the letter in the wake of Suzanne Moore's column because I thought she mis-characterised the fight for trans rights as denying women's rights. I respect debate and part of that is calling out something I don't agree with. She isn't silenced, nor would I want that."

[–]OrneryStruggle 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I did see the twitter threads in question but I feel like there is some context I must have missed because his comments seemed to come from thin air. I guess that's just... it?

[–]inneedofspace[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah that's it, that's kinda my point he probably feels guilty about signing a petition to silence one of the female writers there. Plenty of comments had nothing to do with women at all but that's what he chose to respond to.

[–]Delia 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Who cares? You had your day Guardian people are just more nuanced nowadays.