all 74 comments

[–]yousaythosethings 116 insightful - 6 fun116 insightful - 5 fun117 insightful - 6 fun -  (9 children)

My friend told me that she got called a TERF recently by some “friends” because of the situation with JK Rowling. They were saying they were over JK because she was transphobic. My friend asked what it is that she said that was transphobic and they had no real explanation. She asked if they had any thoughts about all the misogynistic abuse hurled at JK including newspapers interviewing her ex-husband who proudly confirmed that he hit her and asked if they had any thoughts on that, which they had no thoughts on of course. So she asked if the rest of JK’s contributions are meaningless and she deserves no empathy as a survivor of domestic violence speaking out about the threat of male violence resulting in threats of male violence just because they disagree with her about child transition and the importance of biological sex? Of course they just called my friend a TERF instead of having to think about that.

[–][deleted] 64 insightful - 2 fun64 insightful - 1 fun65 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

It's the same as calling somebody a fascist. It became a mindless insult.

[–]jjdub7Gay Male Guest Commentator 8 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Can confirm. Even in subs where I've clearly tagged myself with male/conservative flair, I get called a TERF as well by TRAs for not being sexually attracted to vagina regardless of gender.

I assume they're calling me a Trans-Exhausted Real F***** unless "Radical Feminism" has just become a catch-all term for use in the two-minutes' hate.

[–]Realwoman 35 insightful - 2 fun35 insightful - 1 fun36 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

Wait, a newspaper interviewed her husband who proudly said he hit her? Her ex husband I assume?

[–]slushpilot 33 insightful - 3 fun33 insightful - 2 fun34 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Yes, it was one of those british tabloids I think, but still the headline was framed like "And I'm glad I did" or something.

[–]Realwoman 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Wtf, do you have a link?

[–]slushpilot 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

[–]yousaythosethings 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

[–]Realwoman 33 insightful - 1 fun33 insightful - 0 fun34 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That cover is disgusting. And her ex is a classic abuser - he slapped her but he didn't hit her and there was no sustained abuse 🙄. Sure.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Isn't that the same tabloid that Johnny Depp is suing for defamation or something?

[–]cutenoobies 89 insightful - 1 fun89 insightful - 0 fun90 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Ooooh my fellow gay friends and I had a brunch over the weekend (duh), and we talked about JK Rowling. Most were in disagreement over trans women in female sports and transing of children, and some were not even aware that such a thing was going on. In the end they also agreed with JKR. Real world is much more logical than echo chambers of reddit and twitter, and we have to thank JKR for making it mainstream.

At the same time there have to be awareness at mass level so that trans lobby is removed from pharmaceuticals, social media and politics, because as long as they got that lobby, things are going to be hard.

[–]msteacherlady 46 insightful - 3 fun46 insightful - 2 fun47 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

...and removed from education! Before Covid, I (high school teacher) already had a workshop where they shoehorned in some trans sensitivity and gave us all a booklet before moving on to the core activities that had nothing to do with trans!

[–]GConly 33 insightful - 2 fun33 insightful - 1 fun34 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

. In the end they also agreed with JKR

And that's why GC got banned. The last thing they want is people exposed to the facts.

[–]Bloommagical 25 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 0 fun26 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It's the other way around. Pharma makes billions off of trans surgeries and billions more off HRT and blockers. Make transitioning illegal for anyone under age 21 and you not only save a lot of confused children from permanent physical and mental damage but you cut off a lot of money from this massive trans lobby.

[–]jjdub7Gay Male Guest Commentator 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Or, you abolish the mandated coverage laws in many states that "prohibit transgender exclusions" (aka mandate transgender inclusions) on healthcare policies to end this gravy train from the front rather than chasing after it from behind. Things like laser hair removal, cartilage shaves, and a whole host of other non-medically-necessary 'treatments' must be covered benefits under these laws for transitioning individuals - many of which are also cosmetic services that women generally pay out of pocket for - all subsidized by higher premium costs for everyone across the board.

One of the fatal flaws of Obamacare in trying to make care "affordable" was allowing the ivory towers to quietly push such inclusions through in the aftermath of everything else going on in the sector once ACA became law.

[–]notdelusional 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Do they really? Hormones are cheap and pharma is not doing the surgeries. Seems to me the shameless srs clinics are really raking in the cash on this fad.

[–]jjdub7Gay Male Guest Commentator 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Real world is much more logical than echo chambers of reddit and twitter

Yes, but remember how the activists use framing to corral opinions into the echo chambers on a massive scale - e.g. coining "transgender" to lump AGP and trans-med into a new Trojan Horse umbrella group that's then used to drive the discourse.

There's always work that needs to be done to dispel that framing so that people are again able to view the situation plainly rather than from the perspectives they're fed, and imo those personal, low-key discussions between friends are the best strategy on such topics.

[–]Hepsibah44 65 insightful - 1 fun65 insightful - 0 fun66 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

True, and most people, like me, until the JKR debacle, didn't know that "trans" covers people only self-identifying and who have had no medical or surgical treatments. Or that homosexual people, especially lesbians, are being called transphobes for their sexual preferences; ie homosexuality is now transphobia.

[–]shveya 62 insightful - 2 fun62 insightful - 1 fun63 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

TRAs have always been good at bullying away their allies, but the way they treated Rowling made even the average Joe realize just how sick and misogynist they are. More and more people are questioning gender ideology and standing up to them.

[–]sudd3nclar1ty 44 insightful - 1 fun44 insightful - 0 fun45 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I read a Glenn Greenwald article recently about how he backed away from doing a biopic of his childhood hero Martina Navratilova because of her stance on playing against men. Her coach, a TIM since the 60’s said that playing against women wouldn't be fair and they'd wipe the court against the best women in the world.

So despite being an LGBT advocate for all her life, Martina got cancelled.

[–]weirdthorn 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Cyclepath can't let go of that article, he feels slighted and the author brushed him off quickly (and now isn't responding to his tweets anymore).

[–]shveya 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I remember reading about her recently too. I wish more people knew about what happened to Martina.

[–]Delia 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Martina was the most beautiful role model to lesbians in the eighties. She was so strong in herself.

[–]momiji 58 insightful - 1 fun58 insightful - 0 fun59 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes! Every friend/relative I've talked with about the Rowling case was 100% terf after I explained to them the situation and they read her essay. The problem is all of them were very misinformed about what actually happened, what the accuses against Rowling were or even what her point of view was. News sources (both international and those of my country) did as usual a horrible job in portraying reality, going instead for clickbaity titles and content.

[–]RestingWitchface 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think misinformation is a huge problem. I shared JKR's essay on Facebook after feeling I couldn't stay quiet anymore, and I had to explain to people the brutal reality of transitioning children. No one had thought it through far enough to realise that these kids will be dealing with infertility, lack of sexual function and surgery complications resulting from puberty blockers. And those are the things we do know. There is a lot we don't, and activists are trying to stop the research from being done!

[–]whateverman 54 insightful - 2 fun54 insightful - 1 fun55 insightful - 2 fun -  (23 children)

They will push until they reach the limits of what the average person can accept.

Remember the push for the nearly limitless amount of pronouns a few years ago? Notice how that's more or less died down in the last couple of years? As a group, they seem to have accepted that the best they're going to get out of people is using they/them as an alternative to he/him and she/her.

Notice how Reddit removed r/detrans until they received community backlash? They put it back when they realized that it made them look bad, but they would have preferred to remove the existence of detransition all together.

Have you noticed that there isn't as much TRA pushback regarding sports as there is for other issues? There are males joining and competing in women's sports teams, but many of them know that this isn't really a fight they'll win if they push too hard. They know the difference between male and female bodies and they know just how much stronger male bodies can be. Bathrooms were much easier for them to access. But decimating women in their own sports leagues shines a light on the fact that transwomen and women are different.

[–][deleted] 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That new book “irreversible damage” mentions r/detrans. I wonder if that played a part in them being cancelled, then un-cancelled.

[–]unexpectedly_local 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

Did anyone actually push the use of neopronouns (besides they/them) in mainstream society? It seems like the really out there neopronouns were merely a tumblr fad.

[–]whateverman 23 insightful - 3 fun23 insightful - 2 fun24 insightful - 3 fun -  (17 children)

There was a push for it. If you have attended any Pride events in the last several years, you may have seen it in person. Ze/Zem/Zir and Xe//Xem/Xir were the most common I saw the push for in real life. It's died down somewhat since 2017/2018.

[–][deleted] 32 insightful - 12 fun32 insightful - 11 fun33 insightful - 12 fun -  (9 children)

My partner took our son to a leftist meeting a couple years ago, and when he was filling out his name tag, they told him name and pronouns. Asking my partner what pronouns were, he responded "what you'd like to be called." He came home with an adorable name tag with his name with "sir" written below. It cracked me up.

[–]IridescentAnaconda 17 insightful - 7 fun17 insightful - 6 fun18 insightful - 7 fun -  (6 children)

As a prank, my husband and I cornered his 77-year-old father (a conservative but amiable and generally accepting kind of fellow): Dad, what are your preferred pronouns? His response: Huh? What?

Dad, what are your preferred pronouns? Do you want to be called he, she, or something else?

WHAT are you talking about?

Poor guy.

[–]Anonimouse 22 insightful - 11 fun22 insightful - 10 fun23 insightful - 11 fun -  (4 children)

I was in a meeting with a group of younger TRAs and one older gentleman. It was at uni if that sets a better seen. We go round the table doing name and pronoun (because some people have to change pronouns daily, it has to be done on every meeting). This person just says they go by "the normal ones". All hell breaks loose.

[–]venecia 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

lmao he is my hero.

it has to be done on every meeting

Good lord, that soured my laughter a bit. How ridiculous. But ''the normal ones'' is just too funny!

[–]Anonimouse 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

It got to the point where even the head of the uni queer group, a TiF, is sick of it all. I hadn't spoken to [insane one] that day, so referred to it in the third person by the name and pronoun I'd last heard. Nope. Gone from they to she, with a name change to match. TiF above corrects me, I roll my eyes, and get in response "i know, but that's what they want".

Changes every 2-3 days. Goes from "butch fem" to "fem". Still has a penis and won't shave the face. And it's in a queer relationship because the partner is (female) butch identified with they/them pronouns.

I finally figured out how this works. It was explained to me on fb that pronouns and gender identity are unrelated. So you can be a male, masc identified she/her lesbian.

[–]venecia 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It was explained to me on fb that pronouns and gender identity are unrelated. So you can be a male, masc identified she/her lesbian.

Unfuckingbelievable. Why do they insist on the right words anymore when words clearly mean nothing?

[–]IridescentAnaconda 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But God help you if you misgender them by using the wrong pronoun.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

OK that made wine come out of my nose thank you lol

[–]-thedarkhorse- 17 insightful - 3 fun17 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

That is adorable, he will go far.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

That's awesome 💕

[–]unexpectedly_local 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks. I haven't been in LGBT spaces much at all, so I guess it makes sense I haven't seen it at all IRL.

[–]bellatrixbells 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Il assure you those idiotic pronouns are a thing in France and Quebec. Especially "iel" which is a combination of il and elle (he/she) and it's just retarded. I know people who use them and I think the main liberal university here actually encourages/forces teachers to use them if a student demands it.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Ewwwww I am in Northern Ontario and hadn't noticed it yet among my francophone patients. Yuck. Wtf Quebec you're supposed to be a bit different to us.

How the fuck (pardonnez-vous my franglais svp) do you even pronounce that?!?

[–]bellatrixbells 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

It's pretty straightforward ;) iel reads "yel" or "yelle" :)

It's possibly a Montreal thing though. I'm supposed to be on the left, but like in many other places the liberal left is going overboard with PC.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Hahaha OK yeah sounds Montréal franglais to me. So dumb. Thanks

[–]bellatrixbells 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

It's not ;) but it is dumb and no problem hehe ;)

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hehehe thanks 💕

[–][deleted] 13 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I know in Canada there was, in 2016 ( i think) they tried passing a law making it illegal to misgender someone and it included pronouns like xe/xim

[–]Heteronormativefuckt 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

I've seen a TiM at a corporate office want fae/faed and had a ton of support

[–]Bloommagical 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Remember the push for the nearly limitless amount of pronouns a few years ago? Notice how that's more or less died down in the last couple of years? As a group, they seem to have accepted that the best they're going to get out of people is using they/them as an alternative to he/him and she/her.

I remember this. I'd bet every single one of the people advocating for neopronouns were young teenagers at the time. Some things are just phases.

[–]motionlessoracle 38 insightful - 4 fun38 insightful - 3 fun39 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

Yep. I know multiple secret TERFs, and none of them realize that I know others.

Once I collect enough, I plan to tell all of them how many others I know (number only, not names). That should let them know that they aren't the only ones.

[–]unexpectedly_local 16 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Why just tell them how many you know and not connect them together? I'm sure you have your reasons, just curious.

[–]motionlessoracle 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

It's because I don't think they would get along, lol.

[–][deleted] 35 insightful - 1 fun35 insightful - 0 fun36 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They'll look up the topic, hopefully. I had no idea how bad it was until I went on another social media site where a ton of UK/IRE/Scotland posters were discussing this.

[–]Literallyawoman 34 insightful - 1 fun34 insightful - 0 fun35 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They were never mainstream they’re a bunch of kids and stunted adults who have so little power in their real lives they get into arguments online completely based on emotion outside reality to feel something. Keep talking to people irl they usually fall between totally clueless and unknowingly TERF haha

[–]radfem_on_the_run 31 insightful - 1 fun31 insightful - 0 fun32 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Jealous everyone is connecting with others over this. My sister and I got into a heated argument about it and she now thinks I'm a legit TERF and was shocked I was standing up for her. I wish I asked her to name specifically what she found offensive; will do so in the future when it comes up. My sister spends a lot of time on Twitter following all the libfems and woke folks which I think is a big factor in whether or not you hate JK now.

[–]Marsupial 28 insightful - 3 fun28 insightful - 2 fun29 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

TERF is the worst fucking attempt at an insult. I don't care if somebody is a "TERF". TRAs think people care a shitton more about the transgender cause than they actually do.

[–]RestingWitchface 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"TERF" shows me who the critical thinkers and the actual feminists are. I have lost all respect for anyone who goes along with this ideology.

[–]Anonimouse 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've always responded with "well, I'm not really a rad fem." And I think that put me off GC spaces.

[–]luckystar 19 insightful - 3 fun19 insightful - 2 fun20 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

It's definitely brought the issue out into the open. My friend group has gone both ways. Some have come out as much more GC than even me, others have come out as fully on board the TRA train. Lost a "non binary" friend --white male who always presented male (even grew his beard out ffs), who just tried on makeup from time to time, and thought that made him "no longer a man" apparently. Not much of a loss but it still is disappointing to see your friends go that way/

[–]Realwoman 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The non binary thing is completely insane and makes no sense whatsoever.

[–]Spikygrasspod 13 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

My friend brought up JKRowling the so-called TERF in a conversation, and I said "well, actually..." and told her what I thought. Surprise, she agreed with me. JKR is a witty, compassionate, articulate queen and the people attacking her will regret drawing attention to their viciousness and illogic.

[–]muomo 13 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 3 fun -  (8 children)

I actually got in a fight with my boyfriend over this. He brought up the JK Rowling situation and then started the typical TRA spiel about how "transwomen are women" and transwomen should be able to use women's bathrooms and violence against them is just astronomically high. It's just funny to me because the more I challenged him about those stances, the more he began to falter. We started with "transwomen are women" and when I asked how a biological man can become a woman, then it became "transwomen can become 99% woman" and then when I asked what makes a woman a clear answer. I got really offended because it seems to me he thinks a woman is just what somebody looks like. He even tried to say the issue with transwomen having free reign in women's bathroom was fear mongering and the same arguments have been used to discriminate against illegal immigrants. I had honestly never heard him say something so dumb in my life. I sent him a link to r/GenderCriticalGuys (RIP) and he discredited everything there because he deemed it an echo chamber. Yet he had no problem gulping up a 30 minute video by a transwoman (a man) talking about gender identity, and he sent it to me as if it had any relevance to the conversation we'd been having. I would bet money he didn't even read JK Rowling's essay.

Eventually, I think we just agreed to disagree because he couldn't tell me I was wrong he just said "I guess this is an issue that transwomen and women need to work out between themselves. I can't really offer a knowledgeable opinion as a cis male." It is absolutely hilarious how it seems all TRAs have the exact same weak arguments. But then again, how strong of an argument can you make if you can't even determine the difference between a man and a woman?

[–]Anandamide 12 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

The difference is that you are willing to look at the evidence and ideas put forth by other people and he is not. Do you remember the debate a while back between Bill Nye and Ken Ham? They were asked "what would make you change your mind?". Bill Nye answered "Evidence" while Ham said "Nothing". An unwillingness to allow ones understanding to adjust to new facts is a tenet of a faith based religion, not a reason based mindset. And your BF saying it's not his fight as a cis male is a cop out of the highest order; these attacks on women aren't happening in a vacuum.

[–]muomo 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Sorry for the late response, I agree completely. I was honestly shocked at that major cop out. He refused to admit I was right, but also couldn't tell me I was wrong. We're broken up now, for more reasons than this disagreement we had, but it definitely didn't help finding out he really has no respect for me as a woman.

[–]Anandamide 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I hope you're doing alright! That's always a tough situation to handle.

[–]venecia 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You're free to make your own choice here, but I've never had good experiences with male romantic partners who say that women's concerns about safety are ''fear mongering'' with no basis in reality. Or talk in that Voice of Great Male Authority that ''well IIIIIIIII have never felt unsafe in a bathroom/on the street late at night''. Everyone knows that tone. The one where you KNOW you have to agree with the weaponized mediocrity and let this neckbeard tell you what your experience is, or you'll be arguing for hours.

... whew, went on a tangent there. All that to say, I know how you feel.

[–]muomo 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

We're broken up now, and you were totally right. We agreed on most things, but writing off women's fears as fear mongering didn't sit right with me and it kept gnawing at me once I found out he felt that way. There were a lot of small things leading up to the break up anyway, I don't think we really clicked on a romantic level, but this disagreement really helped me hasten the break up.

[–]venecia 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Responding way late but good for you! I stuck around too long taking this kind of shit so it's really heartening to see other women cutting their losses quite quickly after discovering incompatibilities like this. Congrats!

[–]Realwoman 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Is he straight? Would he date a transwoman?

[–]muomo 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know you replied almost a month ago, but we're broken up now lol. According to him, he considers himself straight, but I've joked with him before asking what he would do if I had penis and he just kinda a chuckled and laughed it off. I thought he was just trying to be politically correct at the time, but honestly...I think he would date (or at least have sex) with one.

[–]Bloommagical 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Next bring up that TRAs want to do away with Title IX

[–]Bloommagical 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We seriously need a codeword or something.

[–]throw_me_awaay_ 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've discussed this issue with both my mom and sister, and they are very much in agreement with JKR.

My sister went to an all women's college and told me she won't engage with its Facebook group on the issue, lest she's ready for hellfire.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm so happy to read that. Maybe the way out, which is forward, can be found after all. Thank you for sharing!