all 15 comments

[–]marmorsymphata 19 insightful - 2 fun19 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Ableism is the deepest set, most fundamental issue with the trans movement behind misogyny. They are DISGUSTED at being associated with people like me. Viscerally. They will literally threaten inevitable suicide and then turn around and call people with disorders inferior, abnormal shitters. This is one of those contradictions that only makes sense when explained by bigotry. This is why they cannot accept that maybe they are just a disabled minority-- they MUST redefine GENDER ITSELF and crack skulls in EVERY sports league so they are not given the horrific label of.... "Disabled".

Not to mention it's self-defeating as hell. Who will pay for their surgeries and hormone treatments once the world is made to cow tow with the idea that there is nothing to fix?

Is there any echelon of trans ideology that isn't contradictory?

Tbh, I think ableism is a systemic problem with a LOT of social justice circles. It's the one thing nobody is willing to address. Can't say where it comes from aside from the fact that we are probably the easiest group to punch down at and dismiss. And of course organizing is difficult when you're. You know. Disabled.

RadFems are too fullheartedly devoted to the basic tenets of humanity to do things like this, but damn I've seen a lot of it from feminist-lites and other liberals. My Women's Studies professor is the only one that tried to deny me disability accommodations. I think a lot of people get into socjus for selfish reasons.

[–]Aquadog[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Your prof was disgusting, especially considering she's a WS professor! It's not even on her to say what accommodations are reasonable; she's not an expert. You are absolutely right that there's this undercurrent of ableism that is underlying libfem/trans movement.

It seemed like ableism was kind of giggled about in 2010, taken seriously by around 2015, and then poof! It's not even a term you really hear anymore, let alone discuss. I have a disability and I can't even really organize with people who have the same issue as me without the help of others, but I honestly can't imagine how exhausting and difficult that would be for people who have mental illnesses.

You know how people jokingly say, "I organized my kitchen last night. I'm so OCD!" and it's pretty icky?

Can you imagine if someone said, "I wore lipstick yesterday. I'm such a girl!"

Oh wait...

[–]MenAreFragileBabies 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My son has a physical disability, and you are so so so SO right. I still hadn't really found radical feminism by the time he was born, and it gave me so much comfort once I did. All of a sudden it was OKAY to just be how you are and not have to struggle toward a gender ideal. He needs that kind of compassion, and I do too. And finally I had a philosophical framework to support it!

A lot of what has always bothered me about liberal feminism is ot still seemed to reinforce a system where people are assigned a worth or pecking order based on physical and social qualities. It really is not that different from conservatism in that way, the only difference is what is valued. So libfems value super skinny coolgirls, but conservatives value barbie doll housewives.

Why do people need pecking orders? Why can't we all expect to be treated with equal dignity? I think radical feminism answers this question, and sets you up for a more fulfilling life. Trans ideology and liberal feminism just set you up for disappointment, because they are based on a constant struggle to always be more of something.

At a certain point, you just can't put in any more effort to be more feminine/skinny/sexy/cool/whatever. It will make you miserable to try. People with disabilities get particularly hurt if our society expects that kind of struggle. The only people who come out ahead are those who are born perfectly healthy, beautiful, and rich. That's not a good society, to me.

[–]IridescentAnaconda 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I understand what you are saying, but I would still distinguish Axis I from Axis II disorders, the latter being much more refractory to treatment. To the extent that transgender dysphoria is a mental illness, it is mostly Axis II: NPD or BPD.

[–]Aquadog[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Oh, I wasn't trying to claim anything other than the surface brush. It's the damaging rhetoric that having a mental illness is some sort of failing-and then saying that their own treatment is for...what exactly? It's ridiculous.

[–]Anonimouse 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

It gets even weirder when you consider how the TRA discourse hated the idea of dysphoria as a criteria - that was just gate keeping. Now, there is no need to vaguely try and transition.

On one hand, we have taking lithium despite no bipolar. And then we also have claiming bipolar AND refusing treatment. Furthering the analogy, do we also have no bipolar, but wanting that sweet oppression point, so taking paracetamol in the form of wearing bad lipstick (makeup is a skill dammit) and maybe a skirt.

[–]Aquadog[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

My mom is of the bipolar/refusing treatment/sometimes wanting the sweet oppression point and she does try to pull the bipolar sometimes if she's being mean or unfair (outside of a manic episode). And my family looks at that and we're like, this is her being crummy AND it's partially the mental illness (and let's not forget her own grief from being mentally ill in the first place). But for TRAs it's apparently neither because they can't be horrible, rude people and/or mentally ill.

[–]Anonimouse 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was actually struggling with writing that out. I have my own axis II fun, and have had a lot of difficulty with accepting treatment. It's like they're trying to remove every element of who I am.

[–]MezozoicGay 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

On one hand, we have taking lithium despite no bipolar

And worst part is that they are not only doing that to themselves, but forcing others (mostly children) who have no bipolar to take lithium.

[–]Aquadog[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Flip side is they're diagnosing kids who have bipolar with ADHD. Stimulants can cause their first manic episode :(

[–]madderthanhell 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Excellent post!

[–]MezozoicGay 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

TRAs are vilifying mental illness

TRAs are vilifying EVERYONE who is not following "standart stereotypes". Femme boy, masculine girl, homosexuals, people with physical or mental disabilities, people of color, and so on. TRA are just a big ball of hatred to everything that is at least slightly different to what they believe is a standart. So everyone from those groups is suffering, one groups more, other less.

[–]Literallyawoman 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Why are the loudest trans activists also proudly proclaiming their various mental illnesses and “non-neurotypical ” traits is my question? Besides it being a great way for insecure and easily manipulated kids to put a big red target on their back for narcissists and abusers

[–]Aquadog[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

For the younger generation it 100% has to do with Tumblr. People come up with vague, horoscope-like views of mental illness and a vulnerable teenager reads it, thinks they must be borderline or autistic, and then glamorize it into something cute and "quirky." It's the same thing with being trans. They get a sense of belonging in this unique, special club, and as adults they can either keep playing into that delusion OR get treatment/move on from it.

[–]Marsupial 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you spend your life thinking you're something you're not, to the extent that it makes you suicidal, depressed, dysphoric or otherwise affects your everyday life to the extent that the only way out you can imagine is to perform an unnecessary surgical procedure and medicate with hormones, again for no medical benefit but only because something in you is telling you you need to, followed up by a constant need for validation that you pass otherwise your dysphoria gets triggered, then you have a mental illness. And that's even before I get into the autogynephiliacs.

Nobody can help having a mental illness. But telling a mentally ill person that the way to feel better is to undergo an unnecessary procedure, and to go along with the delusions of a mentally ill patient and even encourage them is so insanely unethical.