The trans community is missing the point. We don't hate them. We would absolutely be on their side if they would be rational and respect us

submitted by [deleted] from self.GenderCritical

Instead of taking our spaces, they could be rallying to have their own spaces. Instead of fighting and arguing about their biological reality, they could say "I know I'm a male/female, but I prefer to be to called she/he." Instead of trying to silence us online, they could chill the fuck out and let us talk. Instead of insisting that children should be given drugs to stop puberty, they could acknowledge the risks and work to make it illegal to medically transition unless someone is 18 or older. Instead of trying to take over our sports teams, they could ban together and create their own sports teams. Instead of invading everything and expecting everyone to change and play along with their worldview they could accept that not everyone believes the things they do, and that's okay.

The trans community refuses to be rational. Instead they scream, cry, want to take over our spaces, claim our opinions are literally killing them, some say they want US dead, some use guilt trips if you don't want a relationship with them, and they try to shut down everyone with an opinion and only adhere to certain rhetoric like we live in a communist society.

We could be their allies, but they refuse to meet us halfway or cooperate at all. We're all about breaking sexist stereotypes and standing up for marginalized people. It's sad they behave this way.

all 87 comments
sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun

[–][deleted] 107 insightful - 3 fun107 insightful - 2 fun108 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

They're not missing the point, it's intentional. They don't need their own spaces, the whole world already caters to men. They go after us because they know women are too nice. These people are (mostly) not trans, they're insecure narcissistic bullies. They live to bully others. This is why it's never enough for them. They are constantly trying to tear down someone else's community. After GC reddit got shut down, they started harrassing gay men. It's never enough, because acceptance was never the goal.

[–]Omina_Sentenziosa 48 insightful - 1 fun48 insightful - 0 fun49 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Beautifully said.

They don't want their spaces, they want ours. They want to be included no matter what we say. And, as you said, they are just hitching to dominate everyone who doesn't agree with them.

Thrm calling us hateful or right wing or violent is just their strategy to "prove" that we are evil.

[–]madderthanhell 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This

[–]oofreesouloo 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This.

[–]adultxhumanxfemale 63 insightful - 2 fun63 insightful - 1 fun64 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

Odd that all of a sudden there are multiple posts of how much GC supports trans people, especially the "right kind" who are just quietly living their lives. This is a sub to support feminism. Stop injecting men into every damn discussion. Women can't have shit to themselves and it's time we stop trying to placate the trans movement or any movement that tries to subvert the rights of women.

[–]Marsupial 33 insightful - 1 fun33 insightful - 0 fun34 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Very odd, isn't it. People trying to control the discussion to make us discuss the trans subject less, people posting about how "not all trans people are like that", "we stand up for trans rights", "we would like trans people if...", supposedly detransted people coming in to ask if they're welcome here... This place is being brigaded and people need to recognize it.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

https://www.reddit.com/user/alliepp

[–][deleted] 16 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

I've always felt this way. I was part of the GC sub on reddit for 2+ years before it got banned. I feel like this is an overly harsh response to what I wrote. I wasn't trying to upset anyone.

[–]adultxhumanxfemale 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm just some rando on the internet but for what it's worth I'm not upset. This is how I speak because I feel passionate about this topic. No one is forced to agree with another just because they are gathered under the same activist umbrella. We can agree on GenCrit in general but disagree on its nuances. C'est la vie.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

You purposely want to eradicate GC spaces as your Reddit account states. You have no purpose here but to troll.

[–][deleted] 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

No mam, that isn't what my account states AT ALL. I've been a part of this community for years. I got banned on r/menwritingwomen for commenting on a comment that is in support of GC. A mod there was talking crap about GC. You didn't go to my profile, or you would have known. I've been in this community for years. Go back and pay attention. reddit.com/u/alliepp . If I wasn't in support it would be flat out STUPID of me to post a link.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The link looks different on PC. Regardless, Reddit is a total idealogical shit hole right now, I can't even believe how bad it is.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If I got a little heated in my reply I apologize. Reddit goes downhill more and more everyday.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I went to take a look at the profile and NO, she never said that. Allie was on GC for years. She was replying to someone who wanted GC to be eradicated. If you actually read it, she told someone off for saying they wanted GC to be off of Reddit. She wasn't OP, she was replying to the asshole OP.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes. I call this some major trolling.

[–]Shesstealthy 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This page is associated with terf discourse and its assumed that all we talk about is trans stuff. Since that IS a topic it's only reasonable that GC women work to clarify that many of us feel this way and do not hate them

[–]RevengeOfTheCis 48 insightful - 1 fun48 insightful - 0 fun49 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Has anyone noticed that it's never gay male TIMs trying to get into women's spaces? They all hang out together in their own spaces. It's only straight TIMs who try to force their way into women's spaces.

It's almost as if... it's a fucking fetish and the GOAL is to get into women's spaces to force them to participate in the fetish because straight TIMs get off on that?

The trans movement is literally just a complicated way to allow men to have an exhibitionism fetish and force women to play along with it. They can't legally flash us, so they dress up as us and keep the boners under their skirts, instead.

[–]MarkTwainiac 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Has anyone noticed that it's never gay male TIMs trying to get into women's spaces? They all hang out together in their own spaces.

This is not true in my experience going back many decades. Back in the 1990s, the women-only gym I belonged to was mass-targeted by a bunch of gay male transvestite sex workers who demanded the right to join.

Today, there are tons of gay TIMs who have already inserted themselves into women's spaces. Gay TIMs such as Blaire White, Rose of Dawn, Munroe Bergdorf, Joss Prior, Juno Dawson, Shea Diamond, Blossom Brown, Laverne Cox and plenty of others have given themselves permission to use ladies public loos, locker rooms, changing rooms, etc.

Many gay TIMs such as Cece Telfer, Andraya Yearwood, Terry Miller, and that guy in Idaho Lindsay Hecox not only have tried to get into women's sports and spaces, but a good number of them have succeeded at doing so too. In the process, they've stolen tons of medals, awards and opportunities from girls and women.

The idea that "it's never gay male TIMs trying to get into women's spaces" cuz "they all hang out together in their own spaces" is not borne out by reality.

[–]RevengeOfTheCis 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was mainly referring to the type of gay TIMs that stay in male spaces and specifically seek out gay men or "chasers". But you're right, there are tons more like you're describing, and the fact I forgot about them so easily illustrates how insidious they are. It's just as bad if not worse that they can muscle their way into women's spaces pretending to be harmless since they "aren't attracted to women, anyway!". But then they leave the door open behind them for all the straight TIMs.

And like you said, they do plenty of their own damage in sports and spreading misogyny with all their "we're better women than ciswomen" bullshit. So you're right! Thanks for the (depressing) reminder.

[–]SanityIsGC 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

it's never gay male TIMs trying to get into women's spaces

This is anecdotal so hard to know whether its true but whether or not it is true they too assert that biological doesn't exist, that TIM are women and TIF are men, and that is the crux of the problem

[–]marmalade 33 insightful - 1 fun33 insightful - 0 fun34 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The sad thing is the trans people that agree with us are also considered 'evil' by the TRAs.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

^ This. There's a pecking order, and it's both cruel and obvious.

[–]marmalade 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

And god help you if you're a detransitioner. Anyone who doesn't tow their line is a dirty transphobe and can be safely tossed under the bus.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Absolutely.

[–][deleted] 30 insightful - 1 fun30 insightful - 0 fun31 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

This may not be the most popular opinion here, but I agree. If it wasn't for the toxic environment and inability to be realistic, I would be more sympathetic to the trans community. The reality is they act like a bunch of entitled assholes and don't want to listen to anyone. If only they cared about the rights of everyone else as much as their own. I don't hate trans people. I hate their community.

[–]adultxhumanxfemale 31 insightful - 1 fun31 insightful - 0 fun32 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The problem is you cannot remove the people from their community. They ARE their community. They are the ones who made it what it is and it is an accurate reflection of the people it contains. You're viewing it through the lens of female socialization. The hand wringing has to stop and boundaries must be enforced. We're not socialized to do this but we must.

[–]Marsupial 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Those people make up their community. "If the community was entirely different I'd be ok with it"- well, the community isn't entirely different, it is what it is, a toxic, narcissistic cesspool of autogynephiliacs with a desperate need for validation.

[–]voi_che_sapete 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yep, troll or not, I am in total agreement, I have nothing against people who want to socially transition and am happy to support their right to do so safely. I have everything against the current gender dogma they are pushing at the expense of women.

[–]Marsupial 25 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 0 fun26 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Instead of invading everything and expecting everyone to change and play along with their worldview they could accept that not everyone believes the things they do, and that's okay.

I hope you mean create their own spaces in this sentence because in your text I don't see you acknowledging the problem with them fetishizing women and taking women's spaces.

Either way, they DON'T WANT their own spaces. They want to take women's. They believe gender neutral bathrooms are transphobic. They don't want their own changing room, they want into women's changing rooms. They fetishize women and female stereotypes and want to emulate them, and that's why it's more than a "don't believe the same thing, that's ok". They are causing harm to women through propagating sexist notions about "what women are like", erasing our experiences, erasing our right to speak exclusively about our bodies, policing the language we use to speak about our bodies, and are furthering a misogynic view of women and a reversal of the advances women have made to be able to live free of traditional gender stereotypes.

[–]MarkTwainiac 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

We're all about breaking sexist stereotypes and standing up for marginalized people.

But the trans community is all about embracing, celebrating, and solidifying sexist stereotypes, and imposing them on everyone else. And they're all about standing up for male supremacy. They pretend to be marginalized but don't give a crap about the truly marginalized - like the 2,000 female people killed every day in India because of their sex.

The trans community is the opposite of what GC feminism is about.

[–]catoboros 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Agender and agender-adjacent trans people are rejecting gender.

[–]yishengqingwa666 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

LOL, uh huh.

[–]censorshipment 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (26 children)

This is how it is between black women and black gay men who identify as transgender women. Although lately there has been drama between black libfems and black women who don't see black gay men as trans women... there isn't nearly as much hatred as there is between white radfems and white TRAs.

If anyone is interested, check out these For Harriet videos and Chrissie's video.

https://youtu.be/hRxy_nuoXV8

https://youtu.be/EQLIsSOstYw

https://youtu.be/IuClbT9hk5A

[–]MarkTwainiac 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (23 children)

But a lot of black gay TIMs sure seem to hate, denigrate, sneer at, and blame black women for their problems. This charming fella is just one example:

https://youtu.be/mUUgoeNFP38

Lipstick Alley is full of feminists who have no tolerance at all for all the gay black males today who think that wearing makeup and a skirt gives them a free pass to mount the bully pulpit and bash black women with male supremacist shit like this guy does.

[–]censorshipment 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

I didn't say misogynistic black gay men don't exist... but the conflict over black TW is largely between black libfems and black non-feminists & radfems. Black gay men don't try to insert themselves into every black female space... the majority are like Blaire White, they don't want to congregate with "cis" women unless the group is talking about beauty/cosmetics/fashion.

[–]MarkTwainiac 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

Huh? The comment I responded to was one in which you spoke specifically of

black gay men who identify as transgender women

Now you've moved the goalposts by pretending that you were speaking not of black TIMs, but of black gay men generally, which you refer to twice:

black gay men...Black gay men

I agree that the majority of black gay men, like all gay men, aren't trying to insert themselves into every female space. Because gay men don't do that. They're the ones who like to hang out with other gay men. But we weren't talking about black gay men, we were talking about gay TIMs!

You say

"the majority" of black gay men "are like Blaire White, they don't want to congregate with "cis" women..."

Huh? Blaire White uses female-only spaces such as ladies public loos and locker and changing rooms. Because BW is a gay TIM, not just a gay guy.

In my own personal experience of 50+ years of hanging out with a lot of gay men - often being quite intimate with a number of them who were/are some of my closest and dearest friends, or because I helped provide care and solace to them when they were dying of AIDS in the 80s and 90s - none of them ever demanded or requested to use women's facilities, compete in female sports. Only today's brand of TIMs do this.

Similarly, no regular gay guys I've ever known have said that because some of them wear nail varnish, have long hair, like makeup, dresses and heels, and perform femininity that it somehow makes them women - and that because I don't usually do that stuff, it makes me less of a woman or not a woman at all. The only people who do this sort of shit are TIMs! And many of the gay guys I know are just as fed up with today's breed of TIMs as we feminists are.

[–]Terfenclaw 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

Blaire White uses women's bathrooms, but she has explained that she doesn't use women's locker rooms because she doesn't have bottom surgery and she doesn't want to make the women uncomfortable. These seem wholly reasonable to me.

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

No, Blaire says he doesn't shower and get naked from the waist down in women's locker rooms because he has a dick and balls. I have no personal animus towards Blaire, nor do I think he poses a physical threat to girls and women in female spaces. But I still don't think he should be in female spaces of any kind. Cuz he's a man!

Blaire might be a decent human being, but just because he's gotten what look like water balloons implanted into his chest and performs/mimics more feminine sex stereotypes in a single week of his life than many women have/do in more than 60 years of our lives does not make Blaire a woman or anything close to a woman! Blaire will never have a period, endo, ovarian cysts, have to worry about unwanted pregnancies, need an abortion, have a miscarriage or stillbirth, experience maternity discrimination, be harassed and insulted in public (sometimes by transvestites) for being a "fat cow" whilst heavily pregnant, suffer childbirth injuries, get mastitis from breastfeeding, experience pudendal neuralgia, menopause, painful vaginal atrophy, chronic UTIs due to post-meno low estrogen, be dismissed and belittled as a dumb soccer mom or a Karen... etc. Blaire is a highly privileged male who gets a lot of undue sympathy and support from women because compared to most TRAs, he seems somewhat reasonable and is not a total psychopath or perv.

[–]Terfenclaw 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I agree that Blaire is not a woman. She is a trans woman.

I do have a different line in terms of what I see as acceptable for which bathroom facilities she should use. If there's a third option, then that would be ideal, but a third option doesn't always exist. In cases where she must choose between the women's and men's room, I personally have no problem with transwomen like her using the women's bathroom because we have individual stalls for privacy.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I do have a different line in terms of what I see as acceptable for which bathroom facilities (BW) should use.

But who appointed you the arbiter of which males it's OK to let into female spaces? These spaces don't belong to you personally. The privacy, dignity, safety and peace of mind of girls and women who have a different POV aren't yours to toss away because you

personally have no problem with transwomen like her using the women's bathroom because we have individual stalls for privacy.

In a society that aims for fairness, public policies and law are not supposed to be based on any one individual's personal feelings. You're arguing for a dictatorship or monarchy where you're the only one who gets to make the rules.

[–]Terfenclaw 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You're putting words into my mouth. I'm describing a personal POV, not telling you what you should think.

[–]moody_ape 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

i agree. i have just seen an interview today with blaire and benjamin boyce and blaire said that he can't use the male bathroom because he presents as a woman. he said he tried it and got kicked out. the way society reads you matters. that is why i think a gender neutral or trans bathroom would be best. but everytime i bring this option to TRAs i get "hur dur but than trans people will be in danger because they could be targeted for using such bathroom". hmm so you're scared of being victim of violence in a space that is supposed to be safe? TELL ME MORE ABOUT IT HONEY

[–]yishengqingwa666 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

He. Blaire is a man.

[–]Shinjin_Nana 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

So taking his dick into a woman's bathroom where women have to disrobe to go to the bathroom is ok, but taking that dick into a locker room where women also disrobe is wrong.

lol. trans logic. No such thing as a good TIM.

[–]Terfenclaw 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Bathrooms have individual stalls for privacy, and with the way she looks, she would create much more disturbance in a men's bathroom. Everyone is going to have different limits on this for sure, but personally it is not the bathroom issue that bothers me so much as locker rooms, shelters, prisons, and sports.

lol. trans logic. No such thing as a good TIM.

You sound like the caricature of what TRAs say about us.

[–]Shinjin_Nana 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No.

If you can't keep one man out of the women's bathroom then you couldn't keep any out.

Men in dresses need to learn to get along with men in pants. All stop. Women are not flesh shields for men in dresses.

[–]catoboros 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This is the kind of constructive compromise that could allow moderate people to form a majority and settle this issue through the democratic process.

[–]yishengqingwa666 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No.

[–]yishengqingwa666 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

He. Blaire White is a man. Men do not belong in women's bathrooms, no matter how much hormones or surgery they've had.

https://outofmypantiesnow.wordpress.com/2013/10/28/when-is-90-not-substantially-all/

https://theysaythisneverhappens.wordpress.com/

http://thenewbacklash.blogspot.com/p/9-documented-harms-to-women-and-girls.html

https://www.gendertrending.com/2011/05/28/men-love-the-ladies-restroom-transgender-edition/

[–]yishengqingwa666 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

He. Blaire is a man.

[–]Terfenclaw 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm clearly aware that she's biologically male and have made a personal choice to use her preferred pronouns. Policing other people's pronoun use is the sort of thing that TRAs do.

[–]yishengqingwa666 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Uh huh.

That is a man. In English, men are referred to as "he".

[–]Terfenclaw 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm still using her preferred pronouns and so are 99% of the people who meet her because of how well she passes. Die mad.

[–]kwallio 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I think you are being overly hopeful regarding gay TIMs, they are misogynists too.

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree. I've known tons of gay men of all kinds going back to my teens in the late 60s and early 70s. Many gay men, particularly of my generation and older, are/were not misogynistic, and this holds true regardless of their race. Sexist, yes, but not misogynistic.

However, most of the gay TIMs I've known - most of whom back in the day were called transvestites, and a tiny number were transsexuals - have been deeply, offensively misogynistic to a man. And this is just as true for the black ones as it is for TIMs who are white, South Asian, Thai, Filipino, Chinese, Cambodian, Arab/ME/NAfri, Persian, Native American and every other race and ethnicity.

The idea that gay TIMs are all decent guys with hearts of gold who pose no threat to women's rights and spaces is IMO extremely naive.

[–]censorshipment 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Nah, my comments are being taken out of context. Black gay "TIMs" aren't colonizing black female spaces... black libfems are stirring up shit on behalf of black "TIMs" though. Black "TIMs" are a vocal minority compared to black libfems.

You're likely unaware of this, but the most popular black female subreddit is banning black women who they consider "transphobic".

https://www.reddit.com/r/blackladies/comments/hovbay/we_will_automatically_ban_users_of_subreddits/

To my knowledge, all of the blackladies moderators are "cis" women except one NEW mod they added recently. It's not trans mods banning black women from subreddits... it's "cis" women i.e. libfems, similar to the AskFeminists subreddit with a "cis" woman moderator, KaliTheCat (checked her profile, she is a woman, unless she's lying about her life), who takes pride in banning other women.

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Black gay "TIMs" aren't colonizing black female spaces

You know how many spots on podiums and sports awards black gay TIMs like CeCe Telfer, Terry Miller and Andraya Yearwood have taken from women of all races? Women's track and field has traditionally been an arena that large numbers of black women participate in and do well in. How is it, then, that these guys horning in and sweeping so many titles, records and awards in female track and field is not colonizing female and specifically black female spaces?

Yearwood and Miller can be seen here: https://youtu.be/UCfLwf1LG8s

Telfer: https://youtu.be/QLfUjrUO_7w

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I did check them out -- thank you! Passion and sanity and the space to disagree. Love it.

[–]censorshipment 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yep, there's a level of respect on both sides. "TERF" isn't yelled every minute, if at all (in the video with the two "TIMs", I don't recall either saying "TERF").

[–]72ndGender 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

As a complete outsider to the LGB and everything else world, I can say that the title is 100% my interpretation of the situation. I've read a ton of GC feminist posts, mostly back on Reddit, and never has anyone been supported in saying that trans people should be mistreated, abused, or not have basic human rights. TRAs and trans people will obviously conflate these concepts ("if they/I can't shower with teenage girls, their/my human rights are being violated!!!!¡!) to try to drag GC people down. I say GC "people" since not all GC people are feminists. But regarding you folks specifically, it's clear as day that you all aren't advocating for any mistreatment if trans people. You just don't like guys and don't want them watching you in the bathroom, hurting you in sports, forcing their girl-penis into you, etc...

[–]mambean 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well there's a reason why that won't happen.

  • Male entitlement.
  • Trans "women" who go on sports teams do so because they could never compete with men, not being on a woman's sports team completely defeats the point and the thrill for them.
  • Being a trans woman is either AGP or self-hatred of being male, so they never want to be called male, that would be defeating the point.
  • Hormone blocking children is a projected wish fulfillment of older trans to make more passing youth regardless of the negative side effects (or the fact that with most young people grow out of it), they won't ever stop trying to promote it to young people.
  • Gender criticals are more threatening to them than the men that actually wish to go out and kill them or even anti-trans right wing peeps who are just scared of men in dresses due to conservative politics. That's because GCs might actually present a progressive view that makes their ideology look contradictory or wrong. You need to misrepresent a gender critical person's points or smear it, or outsiders might find them reasonable.
  • TRAs know that the policies they push to lawmakers does put women in danger to the point that trolls like J. Yaniv can make a ton of money of off it. They know even if Yaniv was a "odd one out" they know the problems and loopholes exist.
  • They are aware that putting AGP fetish men under the trans umbrella to bolster their numbers for "inclusive" means women will have to let them into the bathrooms. They've all seen /r/itsafetish, but cognitive dissonance and denial (along with apathy) allows them to block this out.

Not only that, many trans people feel dysphoric and start to "doubt" themselves after viewing GC subs and they take this shaky view of their own identity out on us. Trying to smear us as "reactionaries" despite this sub being predominantly left wing, cherrypicking the odd right wing anti-trans commentator and labeling them a gender critical "feminist", or taking stuff out of context is all they have.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They don’t care as they hate women. They want us to be the breeder/slave/domestic chore performing sex, the third sex. They want to be the hottie-porn-freak-second-in-rank--to men 2nd sex. Note how they don’t believe they should have to perform domestic duties or behave respectfully as women are always expected to. . They (at least the extreme powerful fringe) believe in male supremacism over women. Men are the first rank sex to them.

[–]cybitch 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Yeah, no, I won't ever be an "ally" to anyone who has a dick. I have zero obligation to give a fuck about anyone's problems but my own and those of other women, or "menstruators", as the trans community would prefer we refer to ourselves. Men have fought to keep us down since the beginning of time, now they think they can put on a skirt and burden us with their issues they created for themselves? Who the fuck do they think they are?

[–]Questionable 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The current transsexual needs to be honest with themselves. Which they haven't bee allowed to do. Back in the 70's through the 80's most where just cross dressers, or fay homosexuals. If you were rich and eccentric, you might opt for a sex change operation, but they knew what they were doing. They understood that they weren't real woman.

"Allowing for spaces", further division of sports teams, this is all destructive to communities and the individual. None of this is relevant. As you've said, they are all self imposed issues that they are creating solutions for.

There is a petite trans man at my work. He sits alone, wearing cute outfits that look like they're out of a cartoon. Like what a man might wear as a Halloween costume, if he were to dress up as a teen girl. I can't help him. I can't even approach him. If I said the wrong thing I could be fired. But he does clearly needs help, because he doesn't seem like he knows how he became the person he is, or why nobody talks to him. The gays don't talk to him. The straights ignore him. And I am helpless to give advice. Hell, I'm not even a hundred percent certain of his gender to be honest.

But that's what it's come to, our society is so divided along gender roles that I can't even ask this person if they need help sorting their shit out, let alone actually give him/her any advice.

[–]MarkTwainiac 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Just want to point out that Richard Raskin Renee Richards sued for the right to play women's professional tennis in 1976 - and he won! Even back then, many so-called transsexuals did insist that they were real women and they were intent on invading female spaces and sports.

[–]Questionable 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

His Wikipedia page tells me that either he is utterly incapable of being self aware, or he was a con man. Either way, I can't find anything on this person dating anyone, and he looks like shit in a dress. Which tells me all I need to know about him as a person, and his choice.

"Richards finally agreed to take the Barr body test. The test results were ambiguous. She refused to take it again"

All I see is a person refusing to face reality.

[–]sisterinsomnia 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The reason why there can be no acceptable compromise is that a complete validation of a person's gender identity is the major goal of many (not all) transgender people or at least of many TIMs.

There is something odd about that need for validation by others:

It never ends, no amount of validation already received will calm the person and stop the search for even more validation, and so Twitter, for instance, has even been made to regard such refusal to validate someone's trans identity by misgendering a bannable offense.

When aspects of me are not validated by others I don't feel extreme anxiety, comparable to gender dysphoria. I might be annoyed or angry, especially when I am called some sexist slur or when someone lies about me, but no more than that, because I have grown a thicker skin online. So why is the clear transgender need for validation different?

I don't know (though it does remind me of obsessive types of behavior), but that need for validation seems to be a bottomless well. No amount of validation can fill it.

Hence elite women's sports must be opened for all transgender women, some apply for grants earmarked for women because of the impact of past sex-based discrimination and see no problem with that, some insist on receiving cervical smears when the tissue in a neovagina cannot grow the kind of cancer the smear looks for, and so on.

I used to see that as rudeness and selfishness, especially in the cases where someone is clearly benefiting from being male-bodied (weight lifting in sports, say) and thought that considerate TIMs wouldn't do it. But I think the drive for validation surpasses all other considerations for individuals like Veronica Ivy.

[–]Shinjin_Nana 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly. Never let them get a foot in the door. Once you do that you let the whole man in.

[–]yishengqingwa666 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

LOL, fuck no.

Stop kowtowing to ladydick, it's pathetic.

These are misogynist men, and they'd wear your skin if they could. They will accept nothing less than utter submission from women.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm not being subservient to anyone. For the record, I don't believe transwomen are women and I don't believe transmen are men. The entire point of my post is the trans community DOESN'T WANT TO COMPROMISE. They are the problem, that's what I said. I keep forgetting this isn't Reddit's r/gendercritical. I miss it.

[–]yishengqingwa666 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They won't compromise, so we shouldn't either.

I was on R/gc since the start.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

IME the extent to which the trans community refuses to be rational is the extent to which it's been co-opted by dysfunction and extremism. I have pre-JKR, pre-TRA memories of all of this. Before 2012, the depth of enmity and silencing and the willingness to destroy dissenters weren't nearly as evident.

[–]LeyMio 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

TRAs never had the intention to protect trans people. They are nothing but the creepiest misogynists who have been bullying women in their entire lives. Those people clearly believe they are males and take advantage of their privileges. Misogynists use gender identity as an excuse to infiltrate women's space, so that it is easier for them to torture and destroy women. What do you expect them to cooperate for? Almost all the women labelled as "TERFs" were sympathizing and supporting LGBT movement until getting witch-hunted and silenced. This alone is enough to prove how trashy they are. Even women who simply disapprove child prostitution are immediately called "SWERFs" and attacked by the cult. Expecting TRAs to be more rational is like wishing the garbage could turn into gold.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No amount of validating them and coddling their feelings will make them understand that we don't hate them, disagreeing with them is a hate crime in their eyes. Many of us used to be allies or even trans identified.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They don’t want their own spaces. They are attempting to colonize everywhere.

The time for allies is long past.

[–]Shinjin_Nana 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No. Boundaries are boundaries and I don't care if TIMs are nice - they shouldn't be called she or her nor allowed in female spaces. They have shown that third spaces don't get their jollies off the same way forcing women into their fetish so they cannot be trusted.

TIMs are NEVER allies. They just want female validation, and they'll get it by hook or by crook.

[–]Arkah 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Nah I got tired of being nice. I hate them all.

[–]DimDroog 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No, I hate them.

I am not talking about the old school transsexuals, I'm talking about the GenderCynical scumbags, the pedos, the homophobic girldick/boyvagina creeps.

I don't feel sorry for them, I wish them far away and ill.

[–]catoboros 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I am willing to compromise. Ideologically rigid TRAs do not represent the entire trans community (if that is even a thing). No one elected them. They appointed themselves. The worst kind of people are overrepresented amongst their ranks.

[–]IamWomanHearMeRoar 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Time stamp 10:00 - 10:45 A trans person being interviewed and acknowledging that they are not a “real woman,” but still would like to identify as such:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M53WBYa_n4c

You never know who the person is behind their screen name or what kind of life they lived (unless you obsessively stalk them) so it makes me wonder who the people behind the screen names saying “if you don’t have sex with me you’re a TERF!” “If you don’t have sex with my girl dick you’re a TERF!” “If you don’t date me you’re a TERF!” are. Kind of like people who catfish others, you never really know who is behind the screen name until you meet them in person. Someone once said that they could be incels

[–]kardamom 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

https://saidit.net/s/GenderCritical/comments/5kg9/to_all_of_you_trans_ladies_out_there/

this is next-level gaslighting

[–]Smurfette 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

As long as they are appropriating womanhood, they are NOT respecting us.

Please realize you’re still lib femming it up with this male pandering bullshit.

[–]JoeDzhugashvili 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ngl I actually very much dislike them