Logical Fallacies - Is brining up false rape accusations when talking about rape a red herring?

submitted by [deleted] from self.GenderCritical

I've been interested in logical fallacies, but I am not very good at recognizing them or calling them out. What I see a lot of people (particularly men) do when the topic of rape comes up is to immediately start talking about the risk of being accused of rape or false accusations in general. Does this count as a red herring?

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[–]Sun_bear 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Men are more likely to be raped by other men than be falsely accused of rape by a woman. Bringing up 'false rape threats' is a derailment technique.

[–]Sebell 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, it definitely is. It's an attempt to control the discussion, shift the debate, and prevent people from talking about the subject at hand.

[–]lefterfield 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes it is. You should really look into the actual data on false rape statistics, it's interesting stuff. The vast majority of false rape accusations, no man is named as the rapist - IE, the motivation for the woman is sympathy not "destroying a man's reputation", and there's no evidence that she was raped(although still possible she was, by an unknown male). But those claims will still be used as evidence by MRAs of false rape epidemics. There are literally a handful of cases each year of a woman actually naming a man and that there is also enough evidence to say that either she was not raped, or not raped by him. As another commentator said, far more likely a man will be raped by another man - or hell, be struck by lightening.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

As I understand it, it's 2% of rapes that are even reported, which means the the percentage of false allegations to actual rapes are even lower.

[–]IamWomanHearMeRoar 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wonder why they are so against believing what the person said was true instead of trying to find every reason not to believe the person?

[–]Jalaces 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah MRAs do this all the time.

[–]motionlessoracle 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

It may be a red herring, but it also may just be that they are entering the debate with their own discomfort. I think #metoo was an excellent awareness movement that went off the rails when it threw due process out the window and started publicly accusing people. Men are upset that a woman can just toss these accusations off on social media and their lives will be derailed whether the woman is telling the truth or not.

Listening to women does not mean throwing out the justice system.

[–]Shinjin_Nana 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

But that was part of Metoo - that the justice system was stacked against women who had been assaulted, and that one of the last resources women had was going public.

[–]motionlessoracle 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Let's have a chat when somebody "goes public" on you or somebody you love and you witness the absolute, batshit, full scale harassment and fuckery that occurs. If you've never been on the receiving end of a internet harassment campaign, I have. It's terrifying. (No, I didn't do anything to deserve it.)

One you release the mob, you lose control of it. You can't call it back. I think such an action should be the absolute last resort of a woman who has been thoroughly ignored.

I agree 100% that the justice system has been horrible to women attempting to file rape and sexual assault charges. The women who do actually get to go to court wind up reliving their trauma and having their character smeared all over (as if sexual assault is excused if nobody likes you). It's why I never sought justice for my own sexual assault.

All I'm saying is that social media mob justice has a way of being more mob than justice, and I understand why men would be terrified of a false accusation or a minor event being blown out of proportion.

[–]Shinjin_Nana 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Regardless of what happened to you, I'm not sad that the women went public on the high power men that harassed, assaulted, and raped them. If you want have you have to go public. I don't see how else things change. You didn't seek justice for you assault because it was too hard for you, and I don't mean to judge, but if we all just sit down and shut up when it happens, nothing changes.

I mean, are you really putting the call out that happened to you (if you didn't deserve it) to someone like Weinstein or Epstein or any millionaire media mogul scrote?

Call outs happen to everybody - look at the Karen videos, it's not just men either.

[–]motionlessoracle 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I object to call out/cancel culture. Period.

Talking to people privately, settling differences privately, handling issues internally is where almost everything should start. If those methods fail, bump it up a notch and try again. To me, that's how rational, mature, adults handle problems.

What I see happening now is that people immediately jump to the most damaging, sensational method of receiving justice. They appeal directly to mobs to harm other people.

I read a Twitter thread about a BLM protestor who was asking the mob to identify a "Karen". The white woman was in her car and had come across a place where protestors were blocking the road and not letting traffic pass. (It is not legal to block traffic, btw, unless you have a permit.) The white woman attempted to drive through a gas station to bypass the protest. The protestors surrounded her car and began beating on the windows, shouting at her. She was surely terrified. To try to escape, she let her car creep forward slowly. Eventually, the police arrived and helped the white woman get on her way. The BLM protestor was outraged that the police had let "Karen" go when she had tried to "kill people" with her car.

It was full on stupid. If you surround a car and start harassing the occupant, expect to get run over. It might even be considered self defense in a court of law. The white woman was doing everything in her power to both escape a scary situation and hurt nobody. Yet the frustrated protestors are now plastering her photos all over Twitter and encouraging people to hunt her down and harass her more. If people cannot see that this is evil, that this is not about justice but revenge, then I despair.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Cancel/harassment culture works both ways. Both victims as well as perpetrators are targeted.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Rape victims are often on the receiving of such harassment campaigns. Remember the woman who reported Julian Assange's behavior? They never officially accused him of rape, but merely expressed their concerns to the police. They had to go into hiding due to death threats.

[–]Catbug 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

And their upset is ridiculous when you compare how rare that is to how common it is for a woman to be raped.

Dude is more likely to get raped by another dude than be falsely accused by a woman. They act like it’s gonna happen should they do much as smile at a woman at the bank and it’s honestly pathetic.

[–]motionlessoracle 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's definitely worried about all out of proportion to actually happening, at least where rape is concerned.

I'm against the death penalty, for instance, even though the risk of executing the wrong person is low, because the damage done to the person wrongly executed is abhorrent. I feel similarly about public accusations. I have watched protestors going insane trying to doxx individuals from photographs/videos and I have seen them name many, many innocent people before finally getting the right one. Each one of those false namings has the potential to end a person's career and subject them to massive harassment. This is why police tip lines do not operate in the open. They are trying to maintain the assumption of innocence until there is sufficient evidence. Accused people have rights, even if they are ultimately despicable people. Twitter mob justice does not respect the rights of the accused.

I do not think that one can be aghast at what happened to innocent people like Emmett Till, yet simultaneously believe that one is on the "right side of history" as long as they are only unleashing injustice on white men.

Men need to face justice. Justice does not come from the mob.

[–]Catbug 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Accused people have rights sure, but my heart is just not breaking for men who think that they’re really at risk of something that barely happens. ~But what about the men~ isn’t concerning to many of us here at the best of times.

Dudes clutching pearls over that and not how they’re twice as likely to be raped by a dude than be falsely accused by a woman. Acting like it’s common is just feeding the paranoia men have about women not being silent about shit treatment.

Idk how you made this about just white men when it’s all men I’m discussing. Not interested in racebait.

[–]Amareldys 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Remind them their odds of being raped are higher than their odds of being falsely accused of it.

[–]Cicerosolo 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It depends on the context, like there need to be a causal and reasonable relationship between the discussion of rape and false rapes. I think there are instances it's used in good faith so you shouldn't have a fundamental rule beyond the application of logic and deductive reasoning to determine whether it's a red herring

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The context is people talking about their own experiences of having been raped.