all 41 comments

[–]threefingersam 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I went along with it because I thought trans people just wanted to live their own lives and didn't know they were encroaching on women's rights (and transing children). So I did the thing that "good allies" do, use pronouns and no deadnaming. Also I supported a TIF (regarding her social transition) a while back, but I regret it. I sometimes wonder if I could've prevented her from becoming a TIF. At the time, I thought I was being a good libfem and friend. I was spineless and ignorant.

[–]TarshishJupiter 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I saw myself as being trans (though I didn't transition), so I had nothing but warm feelings for the transgender community. Then the craziness of it all hit me, and suddenly I was on GenderCritical.

[–]Omina_Sentenziosa 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I never really believed that they were the sex they identified as, or that they had the other sex' s brain, but I could see the "born in the wrong body" rethoric as valid and I was 100% willing to help alleviating these people' s struggles by playing along with their preferred pronouns and considering them part of their identified sex.

In short, I never believed them, but I didn' t see a reason to not pandering to them, a bit because it wasn' t that big of a deal, a bit because I was a nice good leftist and wanted to be tolerant and on the right side of history, and a bit because I really didn' t think it through.

[–]worried19 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was an ally. I wouldn't say I was extremely informed or vocal, but I viewed trans people like gay people, and the only reason I could see to be against them was religion. Since I wasn't religious, it made no sense to think God hated people for being gay or transgender. Homophobia and (by extension) transphobia just seemed stupid.

I still strongly support anti-discrimination laws in areas like housing, employment, public accommodation, marriage, custody, adoption, and so on. I have zero problem with adult transsexuals who transition because they suffer from extreme physical dysphoria. My issue is with the craziness that has erupted over the past 5 or so years, the extreme activists who seek to silence all dissenting opinions, irreversible medical treatments being given to children and teenagers, women's sports and safety in jails and shelters being compromised, etc.

[–]Doobeedoo661 16 insightful - 5 fun16 insightful - 4 fun17 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

I was in awe of TW, I used to believe that any man ditching his sex for the fairer sex was a true friend of women, mind you I also believed that my determined and competitive nature were due to being a Gemini with an Aries ascendent and a moon in Scorpio - yep I was a fucking idiot who eventually discovered trans ideology is to science what astrology is to astronomy, a load of meaningless bullshit.

[–]Killer_Danish 15 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Dated a TiM for years, used the pronouns religiously, hate-read Feminist Current... stuff like that until I realized that I was selling out my sex to guys like Johnathan Yaniv.

Now I'm done with the trans-cult!

[–]BewitchedSam 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I would say that I started out more neutral than a supporter. It wasn't something I thought about or heard much about. Like others have stated I assumed it was kind of like being gay. When my friends little sister socially transitioned at 13. I was mostly confused but respected name and pronoun changes because I didn't want to be seen as cruel. She had previous mental health issues and was bullied so I felt like she was delicate and I didn't want to say the wrong thing. Then she started hormones and the family was in talks about her getting a double mastectomy. She was so young I couldn't believe her family would support her making such a life altering decision. After she had her mastectomy (at 16) it was just so strange to me. Like this kid didn't know what she wanted to do for a career or if she wanted to go to school and they told her there was no rush to decide. Like what????? She doesn't have to rush making a decision on changeable life choices like school or work but by all means she can make a choice about something that has completely changed her life permanently. After that I got more skeptical of the movement and then on social media I started seeing the crap like "not being attracted to trans people is transphobic" or "misgendering is literally violence". I was done. I started watching Magdalen Berns' videos and started gaining radfem and GC views. From there I made it to the old GC reddit and haunted faithfully until it was taken down. I think being isolated in the pandemic and seeing JK Rowling tweet finally emboldened me to post.

[–]Head_Sherbert 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Magdalen was amazing.

[–]DivaExMachina 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I miss her videos so much.

[–]Penguinberri 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I took my trans friend on his first 'girls shopping trip'. We went and got him measured for a bra, had a make over and bought female clothes. It was a nice day but also weird because I have never done the thing we were doing (grew up poor so never have had a proper bra fitting I always grab cheap bras from asda, don't wear makeup because I work in a lab all day, and I get my clothes from charity shops not places like zara etc).

The crazy thing is at the time it felt so supportive but he is actually the reason I peaked. We did all these 'female' coded things then when I talked about how our school was setting up a separate bathroom for transgender students he got really angry because that would be othering them. I tried to explain that I've worked in a school for years and have actually caught male and female students doing things in bathrooms before (I work in Upper school so these were 16/17year olds) so I know from first hand experience that hormonal teenagers can't always control themselves.

His complete black and whiteness over the school bathroom issue peaked me. Plus he was a 26year old man who didn't work in education so why was he so bothered.

[–]fuckingsealions 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I was fine with pronouns and trans people in general, and believe in rights for most groups as long as they're law abiding. I'm still fine with adults who are of sound mind doing whatever with their bodies and lives. I was concerned about trans people's safety because I remember Matthew Shephard very clearly.

I live in a liberal city and vote for taxes, parks, and social safety nets. I believe in abortion access and have always been a serious feminist, but have only really turned completely radical in the past couple of years. I had the notion that "letting" tims into women's spaces was akin to sharing space with feminine gay males, not sometimes violent straight men.

The switch was coming out of ignorance of the different "arms" of trans culture. I did not know about the high rate of children being medicated and some minors being operated on. I didn't know about men opting into women's prisons. I didn't know all the hateful things TRAs said about feminists, or that they were sometimes violent with women. I didn't know about AGP. I don't care about AGP, but don't try to flimflam me with your "I've always been a woman."

Mostly what I care about now is protecting kids and hoping that young women in particular will get education and mental health care before affirmation.

[–]MarkTwainiac 14 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

I was concerned about trans people's safety because I remember Matthew Shephard very clearly.

How is what happened to Matthew Shepard related to "trans people's safety"? Shepard wasn't trans, he was gay.

When you say you remember Matthew Shepard's death very clearly, do you mean you were aware of it and cognizant of all the facts back when he was killed in 1998?

Are you not aware that there's dispute within the "LGB" community about whether Shepard was killed coz of homophobic hate?

You say you

have always been a serious feminist, but have only really turned completely radical in the past couple of years

But at the same time you say

I'm still fine with adults who are of sound mind doing whatever with their bodies and lives...


I didn't know all the hateful things TRAs said about feminists, or that they were sometimes violent with women. I didn't know about AGP. I don't care about AGP...

This seems contradictory. I'm not trying to be mean or goady, but the contradictions in your statements stand out to me. If feminism and trans rights are concerns of yours, how can it be that you "didn't know" (a phrase you use repeatedly) about the conflicts between the two, or all the abuses kids are being subjected to in the name of "trans rights"? These are not exactly well-guarded state secrets.

[–]fuckingsealions 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ok. These statements are contradictory, because I'm addressing a "before and after" mindset per OP's question.

[–]WildApples 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Wow. I had no idea of the facts surrounding Matthew Shepard's death. I had only ever heard the hate crime narrative. Thanks for sharing.

[–]jjdub7Gay Male Guest Commentator 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Related, it has been said that Omar Mateen (Pulse shooter), though in a traditional Islamic marriage, was gay on the down-low, and that his mass shooting was not carried out for religious bigotry but because he contracted HIV from someone.

[–]buttbuttinator 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

God, the comments on that Stranger article are just... something else. Holy shit. I don't think that anyone is claiming that gay men can't be and have never been murdered for being gay, but there's good reasons to question whether Matthew Shepard was one of them. Regardless of why he was murdered, his death still catalyzed a much-needed reaction against homophobia and Jimenez, as a gay man, probably is glad that we've seen this shift. But the facts are that McKinney was friendly with Matthew Shepard and was (if not actually gay himself) comfortable with gay men; it's not hateful to point that out.

[–]Terfenclaw 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was an ally until a couple years ago when i heard about the Vancouver Rape Relief shelter being defunded and vandalized. But still I thought these had to be just a couple extremists or even false flags in the trans community... surely they couldn't be that hostile to women, right?

I went on. I did what I could to educate myself on trans issues and I remember reading The Women Of San Quentin to educate myself on the plight of trans women in prison. While I felt a great deal of sympathy for the transwomen in the book, I remember one of them saying she didn't want to go to a female prison and how there were problems of rape if trans women went there. I had always heard that women had nothing to fear from trans women, and I remember this opinion giving me pause during the book. The idea of a trans woman advocating against her own transfer.

I still wasn't fully GC then. It was after seeing the unhinged response to JKR's wholly reasonable essay that all the dots connected and all the doubts I had before sent me researching the "other side" of the debate.

[–]sallytomato 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'll preface my comment by saying that I am politically homeless in the US as I lean to the left of Democrats and am tired of their identity politics pandering. Definitely not conservative. Anyway, prior to 2014 I remember having no real opinion on trans people or trans rights. Then the bathroom debates came and I thought, "Who cares? Let them use whatever bathroom they feel comfortable in." I started becoming gender critical in 2015 after the appearance of Caitlin Jenner. Especially after Glamour Magazine named Caitlin "Woman of the Year." I'm just a very logical person and the more you dive into trans theory the more illogical things sound. Soon everyone was loudly proclaiming they were a trans ally and now I was supposed to say I was a cisgender female (not just a female) and I needed to tell people my preferred pronouns. I felt like the only sober person at a party full of drunks.

[–]jjdub7Gay Male Guest Commentator 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We have somewhat reached a shift in the political polarity, where its not liberal vs. conservative anymore but rather social-authoritarian global corporatists vs. socially-tolerant national populists.

Surprising to see many switching parties in the past 4 years, and not just in America, but again, this could be viewed through the lens of the parties themselves shifting, particularly when it comes to social issues now.

[–]WildApples 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel the same way-- politically homeless. I an utterly fed up with the Democrats and their identity-focused pandering, especially since I think most of it is disingenuous. But I am still not a Republican.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I was the insufferable type of ally. The kind that regurgitated lies anytime someone said anything deemed as "bad" about trans people. The type that cover her ears anytime a transwoman was said to be involved in a violent or sexual crime. These things simply never happen, the bigots were making it up.

I was very deep in the trans cult, but I was also exposed to (what I believe to be) some radfem discourse when I was just a girl, and I was a lot more questioning back then. Dunno why is that, guess growing up with trauma, misogyny, having so little friends and dealing with undiagnosed mental illness at young age makes you grow up a people pleaser. I felt like shit and desperately needed to know what was wrong with me, I needed a purpose, I wanted to stop feeling so alone and empty. I think that questioning side just never went away, it was just supressed, dunno.. But it all came back, the big WHY? Then I just had to know.

First was the TERF boogieman, then I was fed up with transwomen entitlement, plus "first women [doing something] in a male dominated field" type of thing that ended up with the woman being a fucking male really made me uncomfortable and angry.

Next thing I know, I was hate reading something about trans people or gc stuff, not sure, and that direct me to Magdalen Berns videos and the GC reddit and, well, I lurked there till the brave and stunning men banned it. Now here I am and I am never going back to bullshit.

I would like to thank transwoman though. Without their stupid levels of entitlement I would never know who was Magdalen Berns. So, thanks, I guess. Keep up the stupidity.

[–]TurtleFuzz 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I still believe that everyone should be treated with respect, even if they are transgender. Of course, if they do/say something rude, they lose all respect from me. Golden rule stuff.

Before I peaked, I was in the neutral/supportive camp. I tried to just be nice to people, especially if they were suffering from an illness that made them so uncomfortable in their own bodies. I didn't donate to causes or attend rallies or anything.

When a close friend came out as a TIM, I was happy for him and tried to be supportive. Giving advice, lots of compliments, etc. Then he said I was mansplaining to him and said I was always a TERF.

That, coupled with the apparent willingness of the woke-folks to experiment on children and allow any man to self-ID into women's spaces, really tied me over the edge. I now think that the huge push for trans-ing everyone is fueled only by money, and gullible idiots are falling for it.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Wasn't a huge ally ever. Things just got progressively more ridiculous that my indifference became annoyance.

[–]BEB 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Same here, except I used to hang out with harmless (at least to my young self) fun drag queens in gay bars and that's kind of what I thought this whole thing was about until BRUCE JENNER.

[–]sisterinsomnia 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was an ally in terms of including the kind of trans women I thought all were at the time (after surgery etc., with strong gender dysphoria).

I had no idea that being inclusive means handing over my own definition of my womanhood, erasing the female body and turning the class of all biological women, oppressed on the basis of sex, into a sub-category of the gender identity class 'women', where they are now viewed as the privileged part of that class while male-bodied women are the truly oppressed ones.

And I had no idea that noticing those things in my second paragraph would be interpreted as transphobia.

[–]WildApples 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I considered myself an ally, but I was never fully on board with the ideology. I remember being moved by the Gwen Araujo movie. I supported transsexuals (as they were called at the time) to do what they needed to do to be happy and to be treated with respect, but the idea that they felt like the opposite sex never sat right with me. I am female and I have no idea what it means to feel like a female outside of biological functions and sex discrimination, neither of which the TiM experiences. I always felt that the supposed trans- feeling of being female amounted to no more than superficial stereotypes, but I went along with it because maybe it was my problem that I could not understand how they felt. A female acquaintance I spoke to about it once assured me that she has an internal feeling of being female separate and apart from biology and sexism, so maybe TiMs could too. I felt uncomfortable about the bathroom issue, but the discussions I heard around it made me feel like maybe I was just too close-minded and overestimating the threat to women, so I became supportive of bathroom laws too.

My good will and ally-ship began to diminish when mainstream feminist websites I had visited started referring to women as "cis." I still considered myself an ally, but internally I was starting to rebel. All around the same time I learned that my local government and organizations were promoting the use of pronouns, TiM Rachel Mackinnon won a women's cycling event, articles about female health were performing semantic gymnastics to include trans-identifying people, a woman who was being intimidated by a TiM at a DV shelter was threatened with prosecution if she continued to complain, and that it had become trendy for non-dysphoric people with no intention of ever transitioning or passing to claim to be trans and demand the use of particular pronouns. At that point, something switched inside; I no longer had interest in being an ally because I could no longer avoid the fact that the gender ideology goals were in direct conflict with my identity as a woman.

[–]Madsea 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I went along with it to be nice, figuring I just didn’t understand it. That said, I constantly said to my husband, “I don’t think we got this right. Something about this just feels way off. We aren’t where we think we are on this issue.” So I guess it’s safe to say I was always primed to peak, I just needed more information. It was clear it’s a mental health issue the entire time though.

[–]DivaExMachina 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have (had) a friend who came out as a TIM about five years ago. Didn't really believe he was an actual woman but was happy to be supportive, especially as he had a fairly fragile mental state. Always used pronouns, validated his identity, offered to go shopping for makeup, etc. I would not have described myself as a TRA but I was firmly in the 'be nice' camp, and had almost convinced myself that there must be something to it because who would go to all the trouble of having surgery, changing their identity, taking hormones etc if they weren't actually suffering? Little did I know...

[–]jet199 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was TRA but not particularly vocal or active. I used to argue with a lot of people about it on the Guardian comments. I mean I was a GNC girl who demanded to be a boy so I had a good idea of what an internal gender identity felt like and could explain in to people who really had no idea what was going on back then.

Julie Bindel actually turned me TRA when she used to write about how trans women were men in one sentence and that sexuality was a choice in the next. I couldn't agree with the last part so assumed the first part was also wrong.

[–]Criticalofgender 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was a huge fucking Ally. The kind that thought that trans women should lead the women's march.

I've always been super sensitive about everything, and wanted to be kind and nice to everyone. However, I started questioning that speech because I was pretty brainwashed by being nice and kind and, well, how can you be the awful one that hurts these suffering people, am I right? But then several feminists helped me to peak, then the awful research made by TRAS and the JK Rowling issue were the final step.

[–]msteacherlady 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, I was friendly with the homeless trans person who hung out at my favorite cafe. He never asked for handouts, but had a very dramatic life and loved to chat. He got beat up every so often either because drunk douchebags after last call like to pick on homeless people, but also because he got used by men for sex and abused. Not entirely sure if he prostituted - I think he really fancied finding a partner who would see him as a sweet demure geisha. So I was sympathetic to this mentally ill man and extended my sympathy to others like him for a time. But then I came to realize what colonizers a lot of them are. After experiencing my friends delicate breakup with her plain ol' dude narcissist boyfriend I learned that just because someone is mentally ill does not mean you're obligated to be supportive either. And so, here we are.

[–]Poppy29252 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I saw a documentary about transgender people when I was around 8, so you could say I was an ally for around 17 years. I was always under the impression trans women were gay men who just wanted to live as women and change their names but were otherwise normal people. Trans men were never really mentioned and I never thought of them much. But I was happy to call trans women female pronouns and defend attacks against them, etc.

About five years ago is when I started noticing a change, with straight men wanting to be lesbians, the misogyny, the homophobia. I couldn't defend any of it anymore so, here I am now.

[–]loches 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I was supportive of trans people. I was under the assumption trans meant they all suffered from body dysmorphia, and I could only imagine how distressing it would be to live like that. I wasn’t really informed on the issue beyond that. I believed there was no harm in it, and that transition made people happier, so I saw no reason to be against it.
Only trans person I knew of was a church pastor who transitioned in his 60’s, and he seemed like a sweet person.
Back then was also full on liberal feminist.

I had no idea of what was going on with the whole ideology until JK Rowling wrote about her views. Peaked in a few days, after ~15 years of believing that trans people just wanted to live their lives.

[–]BEB 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It's amazing (and fantastic) how many people one extraordinary woman, JK Rowling, peaked. She is just AWE some.

[–]loches 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It is! And she has always been a smart, well spoken and empathetic woman. That’s why it bothered me so much when I first read that ”she is a transphobe”, and I didn’t want to belive it. So I had to read what she actually said, and was confused and relieved when she in fact hadn’t said anything hateful. She was still infact an empathetic person, who brought up some really concerning issues I had never heard of.
I wouldn’t have peaked if it wasn’t someone I regard so highly writing about the subject.

[–]BEB 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm so glad that you did the research and that you're here!

[–]PressSnoozeWoke 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I heard they existed, but never really put much mind to it. Never thought a man could actually be a woman and vice versa, but at the same time, I also didn't realize how slippery things had gotten. I think I thought it was a Tumblr thing. Unfortunately, it took JK Rowling and the reactions to her tweet back in June (or around that time) to realize how serious the situation was. So, before, I was nonchalant and didn't think they had so many people who bought into it, but I was sleeping the whole time!!

[–]buttbuttinator 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've been a trans ally from the beginning. Even as a preteen back in the early part of the millennium I held the (at the time) uncommon belief that TWAW (though that mantra had not been popularized at the time). I was outraged at the occasional story of an elementary teacher being fired for transitioning. I saw "transphobia" as a simple extension of sexist gender roles.

But, frankly, I never really thought too deeply on it and so I believed it but wasn't ideological about it. I viewed trans rights as a logical extension of the fight against sexism and homophobia and figured that the best way to protect trans people was to protect the rights of everyone, so as long as I was never put in a position where I really had to defend trans rights beyond "men should be allowed to wear dresses" and "adults can do to their bodies whatever they please" I never really had any reason to consider myself as anything other than a trans ally.

My peaking was kind of a gradual thing, it kind of came to a head with the Stonewall movie where the TRAs managed to successfully control the narrative to the point that suddenly everyone was claiming that Stonewall was mostly black transwomen, but I was uneasy about the trans bathroom stuff. It was like non-black people and saying the n-word, even if I think that words shouldn't be restricted by race, I also think that non-black people fighting for the right to say the n-word is creepy as fuck and as a non-black person I'm not going to tell black people that they should be cool with me saying it as long as I do so in a friendly way, especially since (as Chris Rock can attest) there are plenty of people who will latch onto any way they can get away with saying it.

[–]-thedarkhorse- 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was going along with it for a while because I was a bit of a plonker. I have never hated trans people and still don't. My atheism does not mean I hate the religious.

[–]Panchino 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I thought that trans women in bathrooms were people who had had surgery who were afraid to use restrooms around men. Thought it was just right wing religious nuts who disagreed. Then my Instagram feed blew up with angry liberal friends decrying JK Rowling and I thought she’d said something terrible. I researched what she said and then peaking hit me hard and fast.

[–]readerrabbit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I still consider myself an "ally" of sorts, since I have quite a few trans friends who are good people, and have genuine dysphoria. But for years I've known nonbinary/fake trans people, and the worst of it was in college when gender became a fashion statement, but instead of clothes, the aesthetic was getting angry over everything. I just got weary of all of the saturation. Didn't question SRS until /r/neovaginadisasters (rip.) I guess I've just gotten tired over time. Also my friend's dad is a TIM and I've always hated him, so hearing about his recent shenanigans has just fueled my general frustration.