all 39 comments

[–]fuckingsealions 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Lost my friend due to "but we know a nice tim." I'm wondering if women who embraced second wave feminism went through this. I feel myself getting further away from friends who are in hetero relationships because I watch them eat shit constantly.

[–]fuckupaddams 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What do you mean by that last part?

[–]fuckingsealions 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Their boyfriends/husbands treat them poorly

[–]TarshishJupiter 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Lost my girlfriend due to my gender critical views (as well as some life path differences). Still don't know how to deal with it other than to give myself some love, ask myself how I'm doing, and talk to people who understand. Right now that's my sister and you guys.

[–]Doobeedoo661 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

Something I don’t understand and this could be due to my age, mid 30s....... okay, late 30s, is how friends “break up” due to a single difference of opinion as benign as trans ideology? I can’t imagine completely abandoning a friend because she holds opposing views, or vice versa, it’s unfathomable to me and this issue crops up in these forums regularly.

Out of interest, when people are referring to losing a friend, do they mean an Instagram/Facebook/Twitter virtual acquaintance, or an actual, “we’ll meet for drinks after work” friend. I don’t consider anyone online a friend, I’m friendly but, there’s no emotional investment to constitute a true friendship - I need real life human interaction.

I drifted away from a very, very close friend because she became “born again“. I humoured her and attended her church a few times but once she started talking in tongues, I knew it was the beginning of something grim, when she refused to attend Yoga because she felt the devils presence - the end was imminent. There were some raised voices and pettiness but the friendship naturally dissolved.

I coped because I didn’t feel guilt or shame or abandonment since there were no manipulating factors at play and importantly, I had other friends. We simply grew and parted ways, this is as natural a part of adulthood as it is childhood.

I would reconsider who you call a friend if you suspect their reaction to your personal views could be met with abject hostility instead of inquisitiveness over a coffee? Maybe they’re just acquaintances who don’t need to know your every thought and opinion. As a rule, I don’t advertise potentially controversial views until I’ve shared a few meals with someone and sussed them out a bit, not everyone you exchange niceties with is friend material.

[–]BEB 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I just had this happen with a friend of 40 + years. A friend who I'd gone through thick and thin with.

She's in academia and is the only one of my friends who has swallowed the Kool Aid (accepted gender ideology uncritically) and it's really upsetting and disappointing because she's a scientist, because she's faced a tremendous amount of explicit sexism in her life and in her field and because she is very much a feminist.

But she wouldn't even let me talk when I have so many facts and figures about how gender ideology is shutting down women's rights and actively endangering women all over the world. She won't even discuss it after I said I didn't believe transwomen were women and that I did believe that Queer Theory is a load of dangerous tosh.

I haven't responded to her email and I'm not sure I will, because her tone was so authoritarian and dismissive. But it is very sad given all that we've been through together.

[–]threefingersam[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Sorry to hear that. The loss of an friendship that lasted as long as it did sounds very painful :(

[–]BEB 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Thank you. I appreciate it.

I think if my friend and I had been able to talk face-to-face it would have been very different, but with COVID we haven't had our annual meet up and for whatever reason she hates talking on the phone, so the exchange was over email.

But what scared me is that my friend was a pioneer in her field, a brilliant, incredibly brave woman, and the shit she took from men, the open harassment, the open misogyny, the sexual remarks - she was told straight to her face that a job only men had been allowed to do was off limits to her only because she was a woman.

And now, and I do blame it somewhat on her spending the last ten or so years in academia, which seems now to be the grave yard of rational thought - she's full on swallowed the post-modernist BS, including Queer Theory. And will defend it to the death.

She didn't even give me the chance to explain, just stated, unequivocally that we would not be talking about it.

And I was both hurt and angry. Hurt because she knows that I am very capable of critical thinking (we both were trained as scientists) and that I don't usually say things (OK, I can be flippant, a lot ;-) in regards to political issues until I've researched them and then thought them through, looking at all sides.

And angry because this is what I have faced so many times, from women especially, in regards to gender ideology - this do-or-die defensiveness without any kind of debate because they shut it down before it starts.

Anyway, thanks again.

This issue is too important to every woman, every child, science, free speech, sanity in general, for me to shut up, not even if it means losing friends.

[–]our_team_is_winning 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Do you know the scene in Planet of the Apes (the original) where they ask Taylor if he knows any of the other humans they captured, and he points out Landon and approaches him, and when Landon turns, you see the huge U-shaped scar on his head where they've operated on his brain and now he's just a zombie? Landon had been a fellow astronaut scientist, but once they lobotomized him.... Only the outer shell was visible as Landon. The mind was gone. [Off topic, but I've found just about every time I need an analogy, I can find it in one of the Planet of the Apes films!]

Sorry about your friend. I lost two close in-person friends over this nonsense too, and neither of them even know any TiM in real life.

[–]BEB 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I have not seen that movie in decades, but used to love it.

I think that my friend is into critical theory because of critical race theory.

And I think her support of gender ideology stems from the fact that she's very empathetic and probably since many of her students now manifesting as trans have mental health issues (this has been shown in studies), she's supportive of them and defensive of what she perceives as an attack.

Which I didn't do, I only said that Queer Theory was a load of dangerous tosh, whose founders and their ancestors were advocates for incest and/or pedophilia, which they were. And that teaching it in schools was leading to children not having a sense of self and that was dangerous.

She's never had children, and I know that many child-free women and women who haven't taken care of children can still understand children, especially that children are very malleable, but she can't. She takes children at their word, so if they say they're trans, they are trans.

And I think a lot of people are like that now - they treat children like mini-adults, not realizing that many children want and need boundries and direction while pushing at boundries all the time.

Anyway, we have mutual friends who will intervene if asked, and I will invite her to meet after COVID and maybe we can repair a long and beautiful friendship. Thank you!

[–]our_team_is_winning 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Any theory called "Critical" anything is bad news, isn't it. All used to divide people and foster hatred. Although "critical thinking" is a good thing, and that's gone out the window! Empathy is "I understand you have a problem and feel bad. I'm sorry." "Oh, you say you're trans? Sure!" That's called "folie à deux" I believe. It seems like we keep lowering the age of adulthood. The human brain isn't done developing until 25. If anything, we should be raising the age! A child claiming to be trans is like a child (or adult) claiming to be a vampire. (Cue the South Park episode!) I understand friends arguing over differing views on say, the death penalty, abortion, legal marijuana, etc. but how can anyone have a "view" on biological reality??? My brain can't get round this.

[–]BEB 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Mine neither.

[–]fuckingsealions 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

For me, it was a friend of ten years. We met weekly for exercise walks, our families had dinner together, and we were both in the same profession and from the same state. She considers herself a feminist. I brought up that I thought it was unfair what happened to JK Rowling and said that I thought women's spaces should be protected. She ghosted me after that conversation.

[–]our_team_is_winning 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

She ghosted me

I'm Gen X, so when I first read about "ghosting," I thought it was a joke and I had to ask some Millennials I worked with. That is just so chickenshit cowardly. Hate to sound old, but back when you phoned people and talked to them, sure you could hang up, but "say that to my face" was more of a thing. Now with texting, nobody wants to interact with anyone live in real time. It's made people afraid of each other.

Just ridiculous about your friend doing that. What it means though is she knows you're right but she doesn't want her brainwashing questioned. She can't admit that she might be wrong.

[–]fuckingsealions 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm cuspy--more of a xennial. She is solidly a millennial and, sadly, much more conservative than I am. I started realizing that she was kind of a chicken about things a few years ago when she wouldn't discuss the election with me (long story, but neither of us are republicans). I miss her but we could never really have controversial conversations. Me coming out for JK was the last straw I guess. She still likes my insta posts. Sigh

[–]threefingersam[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

So when she called herself a feminist, did she mean libfem?

[–]fuckingsealions 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, she is a liberal feminist.

[–]fuckupaddams 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm being ghosted for a similar reason. Did you ever send a second message?

[–]Madsea 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I find that some of my best friendships are with people who have different views than I do. It keeps things interesting. Why would I want a bunch of friends exactly like me? How boring.

[–]threefingersam[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Unfortunately, many people seem to think a difference of opinion on transgender ideology is the opposite of benign. But I know what you mean. The strength of a friendship is tested by discussion of controversial ideas. It feels like civility in handling disagreement is rare these days.

[–]fuckupaddams 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

We youngins mean irl friends who also live their entire lives online, so it's a bit of both. Things are very publicized now. It's never as simple as a difference in ideology, the internet has radicalized everything.

[–]Doobeedoo661 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I feel sad when I hear youngins admit “live their entire lives online” - I think you just identified an even larger issue than losing a friend. I’m not much help but you made things clearer for me, thank you.

[–]fuckupaddams 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't really like it either. I'm the best one about it of my friends, no twitter, quit facebook, only periodically scroll instagram. But I guess I can be on reddit too much (even though reddit sucks)

[–]BEB 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I don't think there's anything wrong with hanging out online in a sympathetic group like this until you can meet real life friends with whom you click.

Right now in my country, the US, there is so much polarization and anger that even close friends and family are getting into fights over stupid political points.

What I do is feel my friends out first (almost all are naturally GC because most of my friends were raised during the 2nd Wave of feminism) and then discuss it with them. Most are very receptive, but then, we were all raised in a time before Queer Theory and Post-Modernism infected schools.

But I also discuss GC talking points with everyone I meet or speak with, to get the word out. Most I'll never see again, so if they hate me for it, who cares.

We are running out of time to spread the GC word and with gender ideology laws that would silence us/ take away our rights pending in so many countries, we need to be screaming right now.

[–]our_team_is_winning 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

with gender ideology laws that would silence us/ take away our rights pending in so many countries, we need to be screaming right now.

THIS a thousand times over. I can't believe how quickly the UK and Canada fell to the TiM insanity. People like to accuse the USA of this, that, and the other, but this is the LAST place on earth with (mostly) freedom of speech. We need to USE IT before some woke politicians sign more Erasure of Women laws.

[–]BEB 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I agree.

And to everyone who is scared - if you truly feel your job is at risk, or you feel personally threatened by the trans thugs then stay safe!

But there is strength in numbers and the numbers are on our side.

Most people are TERFs, and now more and more people have been emboldened to speak out against gender ideology: parents' groups, Joe Rogan, conservative women, Fox News (OK, but give them credit when it's due), athletes, a cult expert and JK ROWLING! Who has provided cover for all of us.

And in the US, special thanks to WoLF and Save Women's Sports, the founders of FIST and OVARIT, and everyone else I'm forgetting, who bravely went forward and fought alone so that all of us could make up the vanguard. Let's do it.

[–]our_team_is_winning 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Most people are TERFs, and now more and more people have been emboldened to speak out against gender ideology

I would love to see a PSA campaign with people from every background, right, left, politicians, actors, plumbers, teenagers, seniors, just a huge mix including people you think of as having nothing in common, all saying "Biology is real. Transwomen are men. Protect women's sex-based rights." To me that's no more radical than saying "The sun rises in the east. Superman is a comic book character. Don't endanger women's lives."

[–]BEB 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

On Twitter, every time there's some egregious TIM incident, like Game Stop Ma'am, there is a very broad cross-section of people, but mostly men, making fun of TWAW.

The people who are most needed to speak out about gender ideology are LGB, because they would be the most effective at stopping it. Many Progressives in Western countries are terrified of being accused of some kind of "phobia" due to "homophobia" now being worse than slicing up a baby and feeding it as meat loaf to the neighbors, and I say that as someone who fought for gay rights.

Trans activists in the 1990s very deliberately hijacked the gay rights movement in order to access its organizations, donations and political clout. So it's LGB that can stop the Trans Cult, which is in their own best interests because the backlash against LGBTQ+, due to the TQ+, has already started and I think it could get very ugly.

[–]our_team_is_winning 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'd heard recently that support for LGB is down overall now that T hijacked it. So many people who were fine with gay couples are now thinking LGB includes pedos, furries, trans, all sorts of blue-haired "my pronouns are" types. (Funny how "blue-haired" used to mean seniors!) There should be some tongue-in-cheek website that monitors the "Worst Slurs of the Week" -- you could see which is worse to be called this week: racist, nazi, transphobe, anti-Semite, etc. to see who's "winning"! Totally agree LGB need to kick out the T (which is sad for true HSTS). But when it comes to who can put pressure on legislatures over Trans Demands laws, there are of course way more non-LGB voters. I just wish all sane people of every stripe could unite and put down this severe threat to women's rights.

[–]BEB 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes - the Accelerating Acceptance annual poll done by GLAAD and Harris last year found a huge drop in LGBT acceptance, especially among 18-34 year-olds.

But a huge % of Democratic voters don't have time to parse out the Democrats' platform. So because T is with LGB, and because the Democrats like Biden are claiming that trans "rights" are the civil (or human?) rights fight of our lives, or whatever palaver Biden is claiming now, most Democratic voters won't pay attention to what the TQ+ are doing.

So unless LGB tells Democratic voters directly that TQ+ are harming gay and bisexual rights and women's rights, gay children, etc., most Democratic voters are going to blindly support gender ideology because they think it's supporting LGB and is harmless and Progressive.

[–]threefingersam[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It seems like most English-speaking countries have fallen to TIMs. Adding Australia to that list, since learning about the woman who was fined $10k for liking "offensive" comments on FB.

[–]tea4two 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm a genXer, and my whole life I've had some friends with totally opposed political views. We'd shout about it sometimes, insult each other in jest then go on with our friendships.

So I don't understand this ideological purity bullshit in friends groups. What a strange world we live in that diversity is only skin deep, and doesn't embrace diversity of viewpoints too.

Unfortunately, as to your question, there's no magic pill. I'd say to find a hobby you like* to keep yourself busy and your mind occupied until covid ends and you can make new friends. Dwelling on things only worsens the problem.

  • A productive hobby. Consuming media (TV, movies etc.) all day is a gateway to being more depressed about your life.

[–]missdaisycan 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What a strange world we live in that diversity is only skin deep, and doesn't embrace diversity of viewpoints too.

Yes! This over and over again! When "diversity training" came to the workplace this was what I kept saying. Life experiences and outlooks are diverse even within populations and regions. Yet those differences are hand waved away; like saying "no we're all the same". That only defined groups, acknowledged by (who, who decided JUST those groups are valid?), deserve special consideration and empathy, seems exclusive in itself. In a truly diverse and equitable situation, shouldn't everyone be considered on "an even playing field"? I say the objective wasn't equity, but ultimately a set up for this demanded buy in of a super special oppressed group: the oppressors (now in dresses, too).

This also must have played a part in today's purity of view problem. It's just exclusivity. People have been trained.

[–]TarshishJupiter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly. I have friends who have opposite views on many things. But some people into gender ideology end their relationship with me because of my gender critical views.

[–]organic 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Lost a friend for not being willing to date transwomen...and saying women have vaginas...I’m still like in shock. Like she has hardly any real life friends and a bunch of her friends ditched her and treated her horribly. And she threw me away over my dating preferences?! I’m still flabbergasted. Edit to say: I wasn’t even fully a radfem or a “terf” yet at this point, I was still technically a libfem. Also I had a NB female friend who was okay with me not dating trans people, but my non-trans friend blocked me over it. Was really extreme

[–]our_team_is_winning 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Lost a friend for not being willing to date transwomen

When someone wants to dictate who others should date, and they don't even realize they have stepped beyond the bounds of even your standard control freak, that is just scary.

<and saying women have vaginas

Getting a little radical there! What's all this "the earth goes around the sun" stuff you're spouting? If you say water is wet, I'll have to block you. /s

[–]macaron 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Reality will win in the end. Maybe in the future you can be friends again, when they wake up and escape the bullshit.