I'm struggling with something I've noticed about female-dominated hobby spaces.

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[–]Comprehensive-Ad-579 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sorry I have nothing constructive here to add, I just wanted to compliment you on your writing skills. I doubt that I ever read such a beautifully and wittily crafted post anywhere on the webs. I am not an english native speaker so most stuff I come across are methodical transcripts of information in my line on work, or informative articles.

If there is anything out there one can read of your writings (novels, a blog, etc...) I would love to read it.

[–]anonymale 14 insightful - 5 fun14 insightful - 4 fun15 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

Bernadette Banner

I began watching one of her videos to hear the accent and didn’t last thirty seconds:

...I don’t own a lot of clothing...

[shot of a walk-in wardrobe larger than my bathroom]

Yeah, fuck off.

[–]Camberian 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I didn't get much of the accent, again I was trying too hard to catch up with her machine gun speech speed. Do they all caffeinate to the gills before doing those videos?

[–][deleted] 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thank you for this. I was starting to think it was just internalized misogyny that I was put off by a lot of female content creators on YouTube. I watch Bernadette too and the clipped, overly enunciated accent really bothers me. It also bothers me that a lot of creators for hobbies I like, (skincare, sewing, hair dye, cooking, etc) have this instagram pastel perfect, soothing asmr voice (if they speak at all) aesthetic going on. And I just... Don't like it? I think for me the issue isn't that these creators are feminine, they just feel fake. I thought we were past this idea that women have to be pretty and perfect all the time.

Soapmaking is something I got into recently and thankfully the female content creators seem pretty real in that realm. They don't use the soothing asmr voice, they actually seem excited about the things they make, they also have unique ways about their process. Their homes look like real homes and not instagram perfect.

[–]Dravidian 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Multiple theories about that, as I've seen it unfold exactly like you have. I've also frequented that sort of people but I'm someon with ten thousands interests and no big huge all consumming passion, so I dab a little bit in everything and mostly do nothing.

My theories :

  • Time efficiency. The more you focus on one very special subject the less time you have to stray off it. So the more precise your hobby the less you're wasting time puttering about. Might make sense when your job is very demanding. Turns into obsession. Probably the least likely in most cases, though. But also makes sense when you have one buget into which you can pour money in.

  • Credibility and misogyny. Women's hobbies have always been seen as frivolous. Being a litteral expert in something might be a response to men mocking you, not trusting you or not believing in you. Usually ends up being unsufferable because so highly opinionated by defense. This encourages conformity because anybody who strays from the accepted praxis is seen as weakening the credibility of the whole group. When it comes to old timey things it obviously encourages a desuet femininity.

Finally, just trends. Corsets made a huge comeback ten years ago, then it was Rockabilly, extremely femining BJDs and dolls in general, then there was a huge make up industry boom. We're currently highly encouraged to be extremely feminine and that can push passions into the kind of things you've seen. Also there's more men that feel comfortable dabbing in fantasy clothing too, and with that comes to pressure to fall neatly into gender roles all over again.

Hope I've not missed your point entirely!

[–]grixit 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Muddy booted swashbucklers can still go to tea parties at the renfair.

[–]Hedvvig 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Honestly, this sounds more like your own insecurities manifesting. Something about these women reminds you of something about yourself you don't like. I'm seeing a metric shit ton of low self-esteem and internalized misogyny in your post.

These are just young women doing things they love, and you're annoyed with them because they aren't doing it the way you want/expect. Maybe sit down and think about why passionate women who really, unapologetically enjoy their hobbies bother you.

[–]Jazman1867 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Or is it somewhat related to the sex and identity morass we live in, are these girls and women doing something that is unmistakably feminine in order to consciously or subconsciously reassert themselves as the genuine article, natal female, but done in such a way as to sort of drag us backwards in terms of progress?

This very much. My SO after not bothering/caring with/about makeup/fashion for her entire adult life has finally given in and now wears makeup and dresses up everyday.

[–]thrownawaycan 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Gaming spaces have the same sort of issue. They're dominated by a very particular look, pastel pink/white headsets with cat ear attachments, and rigs to match. Carefully curated spaces that try very hard to be soft and cute. They're all perpetually "poor" while being able to shell out an extra $100 to get the matching pink version of something. Very "I game in my sexy lingerie all the time, it's normal!" types. Or they dress very uwu cute.

Anyone who doesn't like this aesthetic is "not like other girls" and just has internalized misogyny. Or is probably a trans man.

[–]justasking918273 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It's interesting that you mention this as this is the exact aesthetic of r/girlgamers and this is yet another subreddit overrun by transwomen and the "uwu crowd" (I hope you know what I mean), so I always assumed this was just their particular style and not a general thing for female gamers. I might be wrong, though.

[–]thrownawaycan 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It seems the two blend into each other quite a bit. I don't know any women who are like that, yet the sub is filled with it beyond even what you would expect by trans women being over represented.

It's very alternative-but-still-hyper-feminine, as a subculture I guess I would say.

[–]justasking918273 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've also seen lots of anime stuff there, so the overly cute cosplay girl type is probably also a part in this. Really a weird subcultural thing as you said, I guess.

[–]jet199 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I don't think it's any surprise that women get obsessed with victoriana. It's the moment women begin really making a difference in gaining their rights and freedoms. I mean the obvious character is Mina Harker in Dracula who is considered a New Woman merely because she has a typewriter and can earn her own living. And, of course, in the history of the anglosphere forced marriage was very rarely a threat, you don't get stuff like Austen written on mainland Europe where women usually had no choice in husband.

If you are a woman looking for a piece of the past you can use in your larping time then periods where you can do what you like and have a tiny bit of respect are pretty scarce so you will end up with a narrower range of interests than if you were involved in a group which had a more hands off approach to history.

The corsets are just a vanity thing.

[–]justasking918273 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'd add that another part of this fascination is how, because of gendered toys, clothes etc., girls grow up with princess stuff, being put into cute dresses etc., so it makes sense that some women continue to enjoy this type of thing later on. In some way, historical costuming is just a more age-appropriate version of dressing up as a princess. This also explains the appeal of Lolita fashion.

And as always, some get obsessed with it while others don't but the less/not obsessed ones aren't going to make youtube videos about this. Also, lots of people seem to love this very curated life people present online, so I'm not surprised that people like Bernadette become popular. On the other hand, I don't think this means that everyone following these interests/hobbies is obnoxious.

[–]Camberian 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And, of course, in the history of the anglosphere forced marriage was very rarely a threat, you don't get stuff like Austen written on mainland Europe where women usually had no choice in husband.

Huh? Just a few pointers, the "Déclaration des droits de la femme et de la citoyenne" is 18th century and French. Finnland had the female vote by 1903. Bertha von Suttner not just received the Nobel Peace Prize, she engaged herself in the International Council of Women, which certainly wasn't just comprised of Anglosaxon women. Or in other words, you need to up your knowledge about continental European feminism, something which definitely also includes Russia.

[–]dollyllama108 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ugh, I hear that. So I can't say for sure that the root cause is the same, but I do frequent another female-dominated hobby and am fighting similar forces.

It seems like a digestibility issue in my case. People are out here using the medium to tell fascinating stories about mental illness, recovering from trauma, navigating the world as a woman on the spectrum, and existential dread, but you'd never know because it gets buried in beautifully composed images of moon goddesses and pretty sparkly mermaids. And it's clear why this happens: it takes less energy to interact with a picture of stunning woman 237658 than to devote a large chunk of time to an independent blogger whose visual art skills aren't as strong (and who doesn't center conventionally attractive people in their stories).

I'm guessing the vintage feminine clothing, crystals, and hair dyes are more visually interesting than masculine clothing, so they would attract a wider range of viewers. I'm also guessing presenting themselves as a list of obsessions is the easiest way to tell the viewer what to expect. It's easier to sell a familiar concept like New York or Regency era than it is to sell your own personality and hope people stick around long enough to like you. Broadway thing is self-explanatory given the medium.

It feels like looking at two paintings in a gallery: one's covered with bold strokes of bright color, and the other is a complex black-and-white drawing of a cityscape featuring thousands of little people all living their lives, so that you could stare at it for hours and still find new things to appreciate. But from a distance, the cityscape looks grey. What would cause someone to interact with a dull-looking work that they may not like above a more immediately striking work where they know what they're getting from millisecond one? And relying on the strongest visual tropes available to them is the easiest way of getting nice, broad, eye-catching strokes of color, and feminine clothing happens to be more appealing to the eye.

Not only that, but any attempt to deviate from the norm is going to look odd next to the thematically cohesive images/thumbnails you're competing with, and maybe washed out and a little muddy. I'm not salty.

(edit: said 'cohesive' twice in the same sentence, ugh)

[–]dustyboobs90 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Well, a lot of it has to do with social media. What sells now is a perfect themed aesthetic, where your life consists of one theme and everything you show does not stray from your branding. Most women in these spaces are thin, white, and conventionally attractive (not all, but most). They live for the validation they get from others.