all 62 comments

[–]BEB 33 insightful - 1 fun33 insightful - 0 fun34 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I think that while all-women, women-created and run spaces like Ovarit & Spinster are essential (!!! and thank you!!!) the way that r/gendercritical grew was because it was part of a much bigger forum, and so attracted strays and lurkers from other Reddit subs.

Remember how many Peak Trans stories started along the lines of, "I came over to r/gendercritical to hate read but now I realize that I'm a TERF too..."

So I think that we should post on all women-run GC spaces, but still maintain a GC presence on SAIDIT and other broader-topic spaces, because while talking among ourselves helps us gather courage and organize, we are way too small in numbers and desperately need to reach normies.

I started reading r/gendercritical when it had 5000 or so subscribers. I never posted, but watched it grow to the 60,000 or so it had when it was banned. I don't think that would have been possible had it been a stand alone. For instance, the really informative online space that Gallus ran didn't grow at anywhere near the r/gendercritical rate, nor have others.

So I would say, double post, or post different things on each, but I don't think isolating ourselves in all-women spaces will help us in the long run, and we are running out of time.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I agree. I post here as much for the lurker/readers as for the other registered users.

Also, the GC/trans critical forum that wonderful Peachy Yoghurt started, which I contributed to, unfortunately didn't really take off either. It got spammed with tons of porn every night too.

Are you referring to Gallus Mag's space/page/blog on WordPress? If so, I don't think makes sense to speak of its growth rate, or to compare it to r/gc or places like this. There's no way to tell how many people read Gallus Mag, or any other blog or website, unless the operators of those blogs/sites make that info available. Same goes for here & reddit. Registered users of a site/sub and people who visit and just read are two different things... Just like on YT viewers of particular vids and channels are different from subscribers. Apples & oranges.

Many people have kept information-packed blogs and websites on the issues we discuss here for many years that have been extremely influential. But as they do not publish info on their visitors, followers or subscribers, we can't know how "popular" they are.

Also, focusing on numbers of registered users, subscribers, views, likes and such seems just to place more emphasis on measuring superficial popularity and "influence" that today's social media is all about. I suspect that's not really a reliable or meaningful way of gauging the impact of ideas in the long run or in a broader sense.

Gallus Mag, if you're here or someone here knows you: thank you for your work. I read it for years and learned a lot. You really shined a light, well before so many of us realized how dark things were getting.

[–]BEB 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Gallus Mag is a superstar and did realize well before almost any of us how bad things were - thank you Gallus!

[–]tuesday 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

as always, a voice of wisdom...

[–]Aletheia 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I agree and this is what I've been trying to say here from the beginning, it's fantastic (and essential) that rad.fems have their own spaces online, but we absolutely need to reach out to people on a larger platform - that is how most people discovered gender critical views in the beginning. And I hope people don't view this as criticism towards the site, but I'm kind of perplexed by the very aggressive recruiting campaign some Ovarit enthusiasts are having here - not merely promoting their website but almost trying to get everyone to move on from here. Wouldn't double posting or covering different subjects on both platforms be better? Also, have women (who've followed the rules) actually been banned from here or is this a more theoretical worry that might happen in the future...? Genunely curious.

[–]BEB 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think as many of us as are comfortable need to get onto Twitter.

I think that the informal Twitter TERF squads that British GC feminists formed greatly helped both raise awareness of GC ideas, and push back on politicians/corporations/ celebrities who espoused gendxr nonsense.

I can name examples of people and groups in the US, who started very, very small, but who by relentless pushing got their agendas through. One is a transgender activist.

I'm not on Twitter but have been reading GC Twitter now for years, and just very recently noticed an uptick in American GC Twitter acount, most very new.

I read something by US rad fem group WoLF about how there's only about 50 women willing to use their real name on US GC projects, but Americans, we don't have to use our real names, we can just do anonymous Twitter account and push back the way the Brits. did.

Actually I'm going to make this into its own post, because otherwise it will be buried.

RE: - I read there every day and love it. I think it has a slightly different vibe that compliments this board's vibe. But I very much agree that we need to be out there in broad public spaces because many (in the US especially) don't even know this is happening, much less that gender ideology is being made into law.

[–]SharpTomorrow 26 insightful - 2 fun26 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

Frankly I've been quiet here because in addition to the open approval of racism (antisemitic sub was made a default and those views seem way too common here), we're still only guests who are just tolerated in any space run by men.

While I despise those views, what do you think TRA and their allies believe GC is? why do you think r/gc has been kicked out of reddit? Because for reddit administrators GC == worse than nazis and racists. There are still some racist and far right subs on reddit even after the latest purge.

Yes, Ovarit is a better solution on the long run, since it's a website controlled by GC.

[–]fuckingsealions 21 insightful - 4 fun21 insightful - 3 fun22 insightful - 4 fun -  (7 children)

I think GC was kicked off reddit because it was a handy excuse to dump feminists.

[–]SharpTomorrow 35 insightful - 3 fun35 insightful - 2 fun36 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

No, GC was kicked out because what admins and TRA call "transphobia". Reddit has no problem with "libfems" who are pro transgender, that's the flavor of feminism they like, the submissive ones.

[–]meranii 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Agreed, and I'd like to add: A type of feminism that caters to men first and foremost is no feminism at all.

[–]materialrealityplz 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The "feminism" that is hardly feminism, since it's been infiltrated by men and the women who hold up whatever they need to, to be liked by men.

[–]fuckingsealions 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh. Yeah. Tomato tomahto I suppose. I don't think of male centered philosophies as feminism. XD

[–]MezozoicGay 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Lesbians and small gay subs, were banned as well, so it is mostly gender critical people and LGB people who were removed from reddit. Some female biology exclusive subs were hijacked by transes as well.

[–]LyraRose 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think GC was kicked off reddit because women there were starting to speak out against porn, and people were starting to listen. The male admins of Reddit could give two fucks about trans rights, that was just an excuse. All the porn subs and the traffic they generate are way more important to them.

[–]fuckingsealions 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree!

[–]tuesday 19 insightful - 2 fun19 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Women getting banned from saidit too

Be wary, ladies. The men running this site are happy to ban women with views they don't approve of.

The OP post is confusing. While I guess it's reasonable to not say who got banned, the obvious point would be to include WHY the gender critical person was banned from saidit.

[–][deleted] 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Per Ovarit, mods of anti-pornography and nametheproblem were shut down. Saidit is another male space claiming free speech, but only as long as it's what men want to hear.

[–]tuesday 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

wow, good to know, thank you for answering! Now I really don't want to be here.

[–]fuckingsealions 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

Come to ovarit, much more active.

[–]tuesday 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

oh really? ears perk up A more active site would be nice. Is it a free log in or do I need an invite?

(I don't check my messages here very often, maybe only once a week or so)

[–]firebird 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

It's invite based. I could give you a code, if you'd like?

[–]assignedcopatbirth 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

I would love a code if you have one to spare! (Not sure how the system works, if you can't that's okay too!)

[–]firebird 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I'll PM you one!

[–]assignedcopatbirth 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Got it, thanks!

[–]Comatoast 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm so fucking glad you made this screen name. I think that was one of my first comments on this site, being confused about what acab was.

[–]assignedcopatbirth 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

ahaha I'm glad you like it! I think it's the perfect overlap of nonsensical concepts

[–]windrunner 0 insightful - 1 fun0 insightful - 0 fun1 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Can I also have one, please? I can't seem to find anyone to give me one

[–]firebird 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Consider your search over then, I'll PM you one in a minute

[–]grassfed 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

It's gone 2 years...

[–]windrunner 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)


[–]tuesday 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

yes I would please, and thank you! When saidit starts banning mods of gc subs, you know it's time to leave and find a new home.

I just can't imagine a mod saying anything ban worthy.

[–]firebird 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'll PM you one!

[–]FilthyHomo 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I’d love a code!

[–]firebird 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Check your PMs!

[–]FemaleIsntAFeeling 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Could I get a code, please? Thank you!

[–]firebird 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Check your PMs!

[–]FemaleIsntAFeeling 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you so much!!

[–]fuckingsealions 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I DMed you!

[–]Metis 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I would love to get a code as well! I tried to get one on a GC group on fb but they told me I needed to write to the ovarit account on twitter. Unfortunately, I don't have twitter and I really really don't want to join twittter so if anyone could send me a code, I'd very much appreciate it! Thanks!

[–]ColoredTwice 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Banned for what?

I am pretty sure some men are getting banned as well.

[–]BEB 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

OK - I just read the OVARIT thread on this- Is it possible that the error messages to the mods of these two subs were glitches?

I get error messages on SAIDIT all the time when I try to post. Usually I just save the message, shut down SAIDIT and post it the next time I'm on, if I remember.

Has anyone contacted the SAIDIT mods to clarify if these mods are actually banned? Because if it's deliberate than maybe SAIDIT will ax GC, but if it was just glitches, then maybe SAIDIT is fine with this and other GC subs. But it's important to know, because we don't want another r/gc on our hands.

Although I do think the longer at least some of us stay on SAIDIT the better, because it opens up GC thoughts to casual lurkers and initial hate readers who probably would not make the effort to sign up for the women-only spaces.

[–]BEB 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Also, I come from the pre-cancel culture era and I actually prefer to engage with people who are spouting things I disagree with on online forums.

If you present good arguments, you stand a chance of changing the minds of people who are reading the debate, but if you don't engage at all, they win.

My GC journey began on an online forum where I, initially not too concerned about transgender because I thought they were the harmless drag queens of my youth, was exposed to the arguments of both sides.

Had I not been exposed to GC and non-GC arguments in that online forum, I would be like most Americans and have no idea of the War on Women Trans, Inc., is waging.

(Sorry for so many posts - free speech is something I'm passionate about, and free debate)

[–]Irascible-harpy 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I anticipate GC being pushed from this site eventually. I highly recommend moving to Ovarit, or even Spinster if you prefer the Twitter format. Ovarit is gaining steam.

[–]jkfinn 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Which of the two do you think if more attuned with radical feminism? I don't think I care for the Twitter format (as I recall it--I don't like the follow business) but Ovarit is chiefly liberal both in content and tone... very few radical voices there (I think slightly more here perhaps because no downvoting)... and some of its subs seem outright liberal. (sometime i get this ghetto feeling... esp after wide open reddit gc which was open to lurkers of all kinds, some of whom actually learned from it)

[–]BEB 10 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

These are my thoughts too regarding not being able to reach more people, who we desperately need on our side, if we stick to all-women spaces.

[–]Irascible-harpy 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I hear you, and I don't think you're wrong. Ovarit is much more liberal than the previous Gender Critical subreddit, but I believe that's somewhat to be expected. New forums need time to grow and mature. I think the lack of downvoting poses a potential problem as well. Both Ovarit and Spinster have gender critical feminists, and I'd say both have content that... misses the mark. Rather than picking based on their current state, I'd focus on which you'd like to see succeed and work to shape the tone and content. The benefit of starting over is that each user plays a bigger role in what the site becomes.

[–]jkfinn 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I do agree with you on your main points. The only exception I take is to your seeing "lack of downvoting" as a problem, because I think of it as a plus in many ways, but certainly in terms of radical feminism and mature thought. And that only exists here on this site, and not at Ovarit, which does offer downvoting.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

The first line of our own sub's info is "Mods will remove opposing opinions that are .... etc etc" so I've come to expect restricted speech from this place.

[–]Irascible-harpy 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

That's something the mods have to include to be able to remove comments and ban users who are posting anti-feminist, anti-gc ideas. When we first started we were overwhelmed by incels and MRA types telling us "IT'S FREE SPEECH, THIS ISN'T REDDIT, (pick your favorite slur for women here)"

If we don't keep GC spaces strictly GC, they quickly become dominated by men and male allies.

[–]materialrealityplz 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Why are men so shitty. :x

[–]Irascible-harpy 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Entitlement, mostly. Arguably some genetic predisposition.

[–]grixit 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Mods will remove opposing opinions that are high on the pyramid of debate

That is kind of weird. You'd expect it to say low on the pyramid, not high.

[–]missdaisycan 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Mods will remove opposing opinions that are high on the pyramid of debate...

I believe the key is that this is a sub for discussion of GC issues, not a sub for debate whether GC should exist or is "wrong". Regardless, of consideration of placement on Saidits Pyramid of Debate.

[–]grixit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Sure, but then why doesn't it say that?

[–]missdaisycan 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Um, it already does? If you read the sidebar, it states this:

This is not a debate sub! We will get around to making the debate sub for anyone with questions about gender critical ideas or radical feminism. We are migrating over from Reddit after the bannings.

These women did great work setting up places for the r/GC community to land after the Reddit ban. I'm grateful for their efforts.

[–]grixit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

then why the mention of the "top of the debate pyramid", as opposed to saying "stay off the pyramid entirely"? That makes no sense.

[–]Camberian 6 insightful - 6 fun6 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 6 fun -  (5 children)

I'm not welcome anywhere and have to constantly hide part of myself due fear of being banned, and that is done by women. Not men.

So what else is new?

[–]firebird 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

I'm curious now. I understand that you don't want to directly state what this is about, but maybe you could say whether it's something directly GC related or something entirely different that leaves you in fear of being banned?

And just know that you're not alone. I've seen others talk about being censored here too, some even to the point of starting their own community.

[–]Camberian 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

It's radfem-related. The main reason why I never felt and don't really feel welcome and at home among radical feminists. It's also not something I can change, I'm as much born with it, as people get born with red hair or a particular sexual orientation.

[–]jkfinn 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Well, if radical feminism is what "bans" you, imagine how actual radical feminists feel. You have the majority of women to support you and your thoughts, and radical feminists only have their tiny number of cohorts. To boot, I think this site and Ovarit just like reddit gc before, are mainly liberal feminist (esp Ovarit--check out all their subs--hardly a radical notion on them). One can oppose transgender on many different grounds, many of them having little to do with radical feminism, or you can oppose trans and porn but two issues do not make a radical feminist.

[–]Camberian 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Who said that liberal feminists are any better?

I made the distinction between GC being the issue or the radfem approach of this forum and/or Ovarit and/or Spinster.

And sorry, but I'm not sorry for women who're othering me. I can sympathise with some goals, as obviously I do regarding trans and GC. But that's as far as I will go these days, especially after my nose has been bloodied once too often.

That's also why I actually prefer working in all-male environments. Guys band together and work together and are capable of seeing a common goal. Women don't and every female only group I've been in my life had such a large number of backstabbers and poppy-cutters, that in the end the goal suffered.

[–]firebird 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you for answering my (nosy) question, I think I now at least have a general idea what this is about. I'd also like to say I'm sorry you feel like you're not welcome anywhere. With the current state of the world I feel like a sense of community is more important than ever. Especially if we'd ever like to tackle the many issues plaguing us.