Really sad when a GNC woman goes trans

submitted by [deleted] from self.GenderCritical

I think some context is appropriate here for why this upset me so much. I'm a desister. Part of what helped me be comfortable in my skin was seeing other women who were very visibly GNC amidst all this trans nonsense. Anyway..

There's this butch lesbian I follow on instagram because I really love her look. Tattoos, really angular face, in amazing shape, piercings, posts selfies in boxers constantly. She just looks awesome. I found her after desisting and it was awesome to see a woman look so nice and so masculine at the same time. Just 3 months ago she made a post about how people shouldn't be so uptight about the fact that she's a woman who shops in the men's section. She called out the narrowmindedness of thinking that clothing should even be gendered in the first place. I was like hell yeah!

...then today she puts up a photo of herself saying she's embracing her 'nonbinary body'. I check her profile and she's changed her pronouns to they/them. I'm just...so tired...so sick of it...so disappointed.

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[–]Shesstealthy 28 insightful - 1 fun28 insightful - 0 fun29 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Non-binary really does seem to be the new term for butch masculine-presenting women.

It's so obvious when more and more people talk about "women and nonbinaries" in the context of oppression, assault etc that they mean female people.

[–][deleted] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly. No one is actually buying this bullshit and its obvious when they say 'women and nonbinaries'. It just makes me sad to see all the support she's getting for essentially hating herself.

[–]BrendaFricker 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Met my fair share of "non-binary" men wanting to opt out of male privilege and act like they're not like other men. They're often worse.

[–]materialrealityplz 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

:( That's so sad. Why regress to this... bullshit of not being a woman if you don't conform. :/

[–]jet199 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Because the underlying problem hasn't been solved, the pressure on women to conform to the ideal of women.

And frankly it's not just the patriarchy or media or lib fems who are a problem. The people trying to police the language and behaviour of GC women within the movement are also a problem. Most of you have an ideal of what women should be and you need to face up to the fact this this a very negative thing for the women around you and not a great, fun show of solidarity to your sisters because it makes people feel good temporarily. Any "women are all ...", "women would never ...", "men are this, women are that", "this person types like a man" etc is going to be hurting some women who don't fit into your perfectly organised world.

People need to realise GNC behaviour is behaviour. It's a difference in actions, personality and worldview not fashion choices and haircuts. The difference in fashion comes from the different behaviour and values. If you are open to women dressing however they like but intolerant of harmless but different behaviour (which you might read as difficult or even unacceptable if you are particularly sheltered) you aren't really doing gnc women any favors. That's the wrong focus, surface level tolerance only.

This is why I avoid female only spaces while everyone here thinks they are the answer to all women's problems. I don't fit. It's made known to me I don't fit. It triggers gender dysphoria. I'm not really weird or crazy, just a little bit different but that's enough. It's always been the company of other girls then women which has pushed me towards not identifying as a woman, not the media or patriarchy.

In mean we see the same thing with ASD and ADHD girls getting ROGD now. If you are awkward, loud, weird, you don't belong as a woman, we'll put you in the trans box to explain your lack of conformity. I've actually had a teen girl on reddit admit she targets awkward girls in her school to groom them into being trans. Her argument was that she turns quiet, weird, excluded girls into popular, nice, thoughtful boys who are then happy because they are accepted by their peers that way. This wasn't shocking to me because I was targeted by similar girls at school. We didn't have the trans cult then so they're try other ways to fix you, take you into their enlightened circle, tell you you were interesting and just needed to open up a bit or be nicer or more together, then give up in a rage when nothing worked.

When feminists exclude lazy, messy, chaotic, aggressive, loud, cynical, social inept women we can pretend women are all super organised, hard working, socially astute, responsible saints. Then we can believe we are better, which feels good, and because we are better we can try guilting society into giving us the equality and protections we want rather than making the argument on merit and doing the hard work.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You bring up a great point. Growing up when I was teased for my body hair or having a naturally low voice it was other girls in my class who did most of the teasing. I got called weird by almost everyone around me in school for being quiet an having odd interests, but it seemed to hurt more when it came from other girls. As I got older it was older women in my family who came down on me for not wanting kids or not being pressed about finding a husband. From talking to other detrans people it seems to be a common problem with men too. Some detrans men say they were basically shunned out of male-centric spaces for being too girly.

[–]jelliknight 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I avoid female only spaces while everyone here thinks they are the answer to all women's problems. I don't fit.

When feminists exclude lazy, messy, chaotic, aggressive, loud, cynical, social inept women we can pretend women are all super organised, hard working, socially astute, responsible saints

There are better women only spaces to be in. They're worth finding.

[–]FilthyHomo 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It’s like finding a therapist. You have to try multiple on and then one will just feel right and you’ll open up

[–]jet199 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Might be a cultural issue as well. I'm the type of person who always gets asked how long they've been in the country when I was born here. Maybe one of the reasons there's more transition in the anglosphere is there's more social exclusion, definitely more bullying. More tolerance for difference in background but less tolerance for difference in character.

[–]missdaisycan 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Hear, hear! Thank you for stating this so well! Many times I read those statements about what a woman is or would do, and I thought "oh, huh, then you just go on thinking that."

Edit. Wrong here, right hear. Oops.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Mhmm. She regressed hard too. I scrolled through her profile and saw a post I missed where she'd changed her name too. Like...literally three months ago you were cool with being a masculine woman. Where is the power in that stance if you remove the woman part?

[–]tea4two 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A friend of mine came out as non-binary in a similar situation and I don't feel disappointed, I feel utterly betrayed. Identifying out of oppression instead of trying to fix it for everyone is pure cowardice (and selfishness!). It leaves the rest of us behind to fight against stereotypes because we understand biological reality and admit we are women.

I refused to wear dresses as a child. I still refuse to do so now. I have a bigger pocket square collection than any man I know. I'm also a woman.

Honestly, I even dislike the whole "GNC" situation. Wear what the hell you want. Have whatever hobbies you want. Be you. A you that just happens to be, biologically, a woman and understands the importance of sticking together to give other women the opportunity to just be themselves. That doesn't make you a "GNC" woman, just a woman -full stop.

Also: I was open (diplomatically) about the fact that I don't agree with her decision.

[–]Dravidian 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

In France there was this woman stand up comedian, "Océane Rose-Marie" who did a show called the invisible lesbian, because she was a lipstick lesbian etc. Also made a lesbian cookbook, and was overall a positive force to push back "lesbian" as a taboo word.

Well now "he's" "Ocean" and he's a trans dude and the only French lesbian stand up comedian under 60 is no more, and that pisses me off so fucking much. He's saying he was always gnc and stuff but that was simply not true.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's terrible I'm so sorry. The sad part is I can't even say "how does this happen?" because I know exactly how. The cult gives you an out. They see you're not quite happy with your place in the world and they give you a chance to escape it. They prey on small insecurities and magnify them until you're so dysphoric you can't think about anything else and transitioning becomes an obsession.

[–]chrysthefeminist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How depressing. :(

[–]assignedcopatbirth 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm sorry, that's so disappointing. The "anything but she" crowd of lesbian/nonconforming women e-celebs seem to be caving to the pressure of QT crowd, who apparently make up a huge amount of online audiences because depression=internet addiction.

She may just be doing it for her brand, if she's an actual lesbian she might get scrutinized for transphobia... But funnily enough, nobody asks enbies (cringe) about their "genital preference", sigh.

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But funnily enough, nobody asks enbies (cringe) about their "genital preference"

I hadn't even thought about that but you're right holy shit.

[–]FilthyHomo 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

& this is why I stopped dancing around the words butch and lesbian to describe myself. Not queer.

[–]jelliknight 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You're allowed to tell her how you feel.

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I could, but she's already got an army of wokies who support her new identity and name change. I don't feel like being pounced on or argued with for bringing up how she helped me accept myself after desisting. In the cult desisters and detransitioners are looked at almost worst than 'TERFs'. Because we're living proof transition doesn't always work, that it's not a cure all, and that you actually CAN learn to be happy in your body. So I'd rather not go down that road with her or her followers.