TiF porn-apologist Buck Angel pleads, “Please do not call transgender women men. They are transgender women…It will not move us forward #coexist”

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[–]purrfect 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I like Buck, I really do, but the answer is no. Not because I'm mean or I hate trans people or think they deserve to suffer. The answer is no, because this is how this mess began in the first place. Trans people can have their feelings catered to by friends and family if they consent or feels natural to them, but never under coercion. And by coercion I include things like "If you call me she/he, I'll cry/commit suicide".

Trans people demand "kindness", which means whatever they want to mean, which ends up encoded into law against women. I don't consent, Buck.

If trans people were honest, they wouldn't demand to be called the opposite sex accompanied by whatever qualifiers they want. Calling TIMs transwomen includes males in the category of women, which makes us a subset of our sex class by default. The answer is no, because if they were honest, TIFs would ask to be called trans women/females (women presenting as men) and TIMs would ask to be called trans men/males (men presenting as women). Or come up with a new term and stop appropriating, what wasn't theirs to begin with.

[–]Overdrive 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I just don't think people should get banned from places for "dead naming" or using wrong pronouns. Like if my own mother transitioned today, I'd still probably refer to her as my mother even if at other times I would try to respect her and say father or whatever. If my son wanted to transition, I'd still say that I gave birth to a boy. My beliefs are cemented in reality. My mother was a mother when she gave birth to me. My son was a son when I gave birth to him. That is reality and it can never change. Stop lying to people.

Now what do I think about Buck Angel's views? Well for one I know he is very accepting of his history and he is not afraid of living with and admitting to his reality. I wish the trans community as a whole was more accepting of themselves and their history. I have no trouble using he/him when referring to Buck. It doesn't take away at all from the problem that I have with the PHYSICAL REALITY that we are suddenly lacking in certain parts of society.

I would hedge that most of society is ok with referring to whomever as he or she if they so want to. What society as a whole balks at is the people who insist that their reality and history is somehow changed and they should be considered as not something different (MtF, FtM) but that they should absolutely be considered to just be a F or a M and therefore appropriate certain rights, spaces, positions, grants, and contribute to the statistics of the either F or M. I know my views are as different to other GC as are my life experiences, but one thing is for certain and that is penis or vagina that I would hope we would all agree on.

[–]BiologyIsReal 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

How is calling them men (a biological fact and not an insult) is any worse than all the words they use to describe us? Calling them (trans)women was in part how we got in this mess to begin with. Also, this kind of language is deliberately confusing, especially for people who are new to this newspeak. Compare for example these two staments: "A transgender woman was convicted and sent to a women's prison" vs "A man was convicted and sent to a women's prison".

[–]BEB[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Exactly. Language matters. Normalizing things like "her penis" led us into this mess.

[–]Shesstealthy 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

I agree with Buck on this. They're male yes but I will happily call them she. Calling them men just reinforces their idea that we are enemies.

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I will happily call them she. Calling them men just reinforces their idea that we are enemies.

Calling them a type of women and she and her just reinforces the idea that they are some newfangled type of female people. Which ends up eroding girls and women's rights.

Calling these men some kind of women and tiptoeing around them not to hurt their delicate feelings also feeds into the notion that men are the ones in charge, and men's feelings and desires are all that matter: they control our language and perceptions and call the shots. What men tell us is the gospel truth and "the last word."

[–]BEB[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

In California, a caregiver can go to jail for refusing to call a man a woman.

For me, calling a man a women is compelled speech, but it's also giving up a part of my identity, a part of my oppression, that I didn't choose and that is not a man's to appropriate.

[–]Shesstealthy 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Really good points.

[–]BEB[S] 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I never asked to be a woman, I never asked to be treated like a woman, but I am and I am, so men can fuck right off with trying to pretend they have the right to choose to be me.

[–]MadLass 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I agree with this as well. Transwomen are transwomen and just about every single person I know has the same mild stance. No one really actually believes tw are real women but no one wants to offend or is bothered enough to rail against woke culture.

[–]BEB[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This all started with "I JUST WANNA PEE" and now, in many countries around the world, transgender activists have successfully passed legislation that adds "gender identity" to the legal definition of "sex" erasing women as a distinct legal category.

Transgender activists have also passed legislation allowing "transwomen" into every single traditionally female sex-segregated space.

Language matters, but also, we have seen, just in the last few years, that if you give trans activists a millimeter, they take your world.

[–]hmimperialtortie 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They are our enemies. They’re men. Humans cannot change sex and lying for their egos is actively harmful.

[–]macaron 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Transwomen are men because they are male.

I don't get behind compelled speech.

They need to be okay with being called men. That they aren't, is part of the problem.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Appeals to "coexist" often are made when groups are taking legitimate heat they can't dispel with intellectual honesty. Thus, the appeal to emotion. Correctly referring to trans women as males who identify as women is retaking the language that's been polluted and watered down by the movement.

[–]jelliknight 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Buck angel is a transgender woman. A woman, who is transgender.