all 47 comments

[–]LilianH 24 insightful - 2 fun24 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Actually this article is wrong, he didn't win he was the first runner up or something and "Miss Intercontinental New Zealand" not "Miss New Zealand".

Here is a different article on the event with the actual winner where the TiM is a side note and not the main story.

http://missosology.org/miss-international/63143-sydney-batters-is-miss-new-zealand-2020/

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well that's something at least. I apologise for clickbait.

[–]Shesstealthy 19 insightful - 3 fun19 insightful - 2 fun20 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Beauty contests are irrelevant and outdated. Who cares.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 25 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 0 fun26 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You might not care but some of those pageants provide women and girls with connections or fully paid scholarships who otherwise would have no shot to get into a good university. It's not all mindless prancing and glitter.

I'm not supporting pageants, i'm just mentioning that this again takes opportunities away from girls and women.

[–]cristi 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And they reinforce the idea of women as objects.

[–]yousaythosethings 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (30 children)

Arielle, who was raised by the church to believe she would rot in hell for wanting to be a woman, has battled severe bouts of depression and contemplated taking her own life.

Unlikely. Did anyone's church cover this? The Bible doesn't say anything about transgenderism. In all likelihood, this person's church did speak out against homosexuality though, and then he transitioned to become a "straight woman." That's why religious conservatives want to trans their gay kids.

[–]Killer_Danish 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, that smells of bullshit. Most religious conservatives I've heard from would rather have a sexually mutilated son than a gay one.

[–]lefterfield 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yeah, I grew up in the Bible belt and know plenty of conservative Christians. None of them ever had anything to say about transgenderism, as it's understood today. They don't believe in "wanting to be a woman", because it's pure nonsense that even a young-earth creationist can understand. They view it as a form of homosexuality. And the few who don't? Tend to be sympathetic, the way we would toward those suffering a mental illness. There's only one line in the bible that I can recall that can sort of be about transgenderism, and most understand it as being anti-gay.

[–]MarkTwainiac 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Being trans is all about being envious and covetous - wanting what others have, and wanting to take what others have away from them so you can have it for yourself.

IIRC, one of the Ten Commandments specifically says "thou shalt not covet."

[–]lefterfield 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Lol, true!

[–]LesbianOutlaw 12 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 3 fun -  (11 children)

The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God. — Deuteronomy 22:5

[–]macaron 9 insightful - 8 fun9 insightful - 7 fun10 insightful - 8 fun -  (1 child)

Does pants count as pertaineth unto a man? Cause I have abominated every day of my life, lmao

[–]MarkTwainiac 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

LOL, "pants" in British parlance means underwear worn by either sex. Trousers are the outer garments that in the US are called pants.

[–]yousaythosethings 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (8 children)

Interesting. Thanks for this. My first thought is "well, that's just clothing" but I guess back in the day what else did people have to signal any kind of transition? And again, nothing about cross-dressing or trans-anything was part of my Catholic inculcation when I was younger, nor do I hear anything approximating anti-gay religious backlash with respect to transgenderism and transgenderism is a lot more obviously destructive. I still think this is mostly about homophobia as I don't think people had a concept of transsexualism or transgenderism, at least not one that was seen as anything other than extreme homosexuality. This reminds me of the three-article rule whereby in NYC you could get arrested for cross-dressing if as a woman you wore less than 3 articles of "female attire" or as a man you wore less than 3 articles of "male attire."

[–]MezozoicGay 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

or trans-anything was part

And almost never in history either, it is modern trend. And in general, most of this "gender identity" stuff can exist only in English and similar to English languages, in most languages in the world "neo pronouns" and "gender identity" makes no sense and could not be described without importing from English.

[–]yousaythosethings 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Agreed. I speak languages from a few different families and can say that these shenanigans generally do not work in them. Unfortunately, as I've written about on here, genderism has been affecting the way that Spanish is being taught at prominent American universities and it is constraining classroom social interactions. Because woke people often choose Spanish as a foreign language in school, Professors are literally having to make up words and conjugations to avoid hurting "non-binary" people's feelings, but what is the point of them learning a fake language and subjecting every classmate to hearing this bastardized language if that is not how it will ever be spoken outside the classroom?
Not to mention, most of us learned Spanish in school to be assets to our communities. Good luck being any use as a volunteer in low income Spanish-speaking neighborhoods on any initiative and in immigration clinics if you're going to have to control the speech of the significantly more disadvantaged person who needs your help. Like I've handled visas for human trafficking victims from Central America and I'm just picturing some woke, rich Peewee Herman-looking NB trying to control how a sex-trafficked indigenous Pipil woman from El Salvador who speaks the indigenous Pipil language natively and some Spanish as a second language, speaks to the aforementioned NB in Spanish. And are they never going to study abroad? Just a disaster of a situation all around yet they're the ones yelling "colonization!"

[–]MezozoicGay 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

This can be dangerous to kids.

For some reason first thought I had about that is - such kid growed up with "latinx" and other in their mind. Grow up and want to help, lets say people in Mexico. Kid goes there very well intentioned and genuinely wanting to help, then start speaking and calling everyone "latinx" and other stuff - that kid can be killed on place, or people will feel bad from that kid and reject help. And kid will never know why.

[–]LesbianOutlaw 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Grow up and want to help, lets say people in Mexico. Kid goes there very well intentioned and genuinely wanting to help, then start speaking and calling everyone "latinx" and other stuff - that kid can be killed on place

I think that assuming someone will get killed for saying "LatinX" in Mexico is the real racism here.

It's obvious that you have never been to Mexico.

[–]MezozoicGay 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wasn't, I am just judging how it can be here, in some regions here if someone come and will be mocking ukrainian language or ukrainians (and in some regions same but about russian language) - they can be shot on place or heavily beaten by some groups of people (especially now, when a lot of people have illegal guns, stolen from war zone). It is small minority, but that can happen and that happened not once and not twice.

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know this comment is several days old now, but out of pure curiosity, which languages do you speak? English and (I presume) Spanish at least?

[–]zephyranthes 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm studying Japanese. Sex is 性別, nature-separate, no spectrum here. 性 additionally carries the connotation of "unchangeable". Lots of ways to refer to a person (some depend on sex). Pronouns are rude.

[–]ArthnoldManacatsaman[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

性 additionally carries the connotation of "unchangeable"

In what context?

[–]madcow-5 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

That's why religious conservatives want to trans their gay kids.

lol, what?

[–]yousaythosethings 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Not that you’re here in good faith, but here’s an article about the Tavistock Clinic. And I should use more “inclusive” language, it’s homophobic parents whether they’re religious, conservative, or woke. I don’t like ascribing sexual orientation to kids but many parents are uncomfortable with having a gender-conforming child who they believe is likely to be gay. It’s evident in so many of the parents of the most famous “trans kids“: Susie Greene of Mermaids and the parents of Jazz Jennings and Kai Shippley. https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/it-feels-like-conversion-therapy-for-gay-children-say-clinicians-pvsckdvq2

[–]madcow-5 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

I'm not sold. It seems much more about attention and pats on the back for the parent, and/or sexual grooming.

I wouldn't be surprised if there are some cases where what you're saying is what's going on, but not remotely enough to say " religious conservatives want to trans their gay kids". I guarantee you the vast majority of religious conservatives would rather their kids be gay than trans.

[–]yousaythosethings 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

I did not say nor did I intend to imply that the vast majority do. Just that a non-negligible amount of homophobic conservatives have found transsexualism as a workable solution to the “gay problem.” I mention religiousness because because in the church I grew up in, transsexualism was not and is not the boogeyman they homosexuality was and remains. And in Muslim countries, transsexualism is actually seen as a cure for gay men including in Iran and Pakistan. There are places where gay people can get married if one of them legally changes their sex. Greece is like that now. The UK was like that from 2004-2014.

[–]madcow-5 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

a non-negligible amount of homophobic conservatives have found transsexualism as a workable solution to the “gay problem.”

This is serious delusion.

Also, nobody cares about muslims.

[–]yousaythosethings 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

“I don’t care, so it’s not true.”

[–]madcow-5 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

No, what you said about conservatives isn't true.

Conservatives are not pro trans.

[–]diapason 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

In my experience they are much less opposed to trans than to gay

[–]threefingersam 13 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

This really is a wonderful time for men to pretend to be women and be rewarded for it -_-

[–]wecandobetter 10 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

Good. Let the TIMs win at allll the sexual objectification contests. Let them work in porn, and be the object of creepy male fetish. May all the men in the world has a wonderful time banging each other and leave us the hell alone.

[–]moody_ape 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

agreed! it suits them because of AGP and all the sexual arousal they get from being treated like holes to be penetrated.

[–]sisterinsomnia 6 insightful - 10 fun6 insightful - 9 fun7 insightful - 10 fun -  (3 children)

Men do womaning better

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[removed]

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Do not use the t-slur here. It is explicitly not permitted in sidebar rules.

    [–]madcow-5 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    This jokes getting old, but when one of the top comments is a woman saying beauty pageants are irrelevant and outdated, maybe there's something to it.

    [–]emptiedriver 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

    Someone who has medically transitioned doing things that are not physically disproportionate doesn't bother me. The only thing that would be unfair here is whether you allow plastic surgery into your beauty pageants, but I don't really understand what the rules of these kinds of contests are to start with...

    [–]LesbianOutlaw 4 insightful - 6 fun4 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

    It is a good example of how transitioning can improve some folks’ lives. Why would anyone want to be a man when they could be a literal beauty queen? They lucked out.

    [–]The_one_and_only 4 insightful - 5 fun4 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

    Mister New Zealand should have spent some money on that janky brown tooth

    [–]SharpTomorrow 3 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

    brave and stunning! /s

    [–]moody_ape 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    TIMs can keep all the beuty contests to themselves, women don't need that.

    [–]sisterinsomnia 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Those who suggest that trans women often have a male concept of what an ideal woman might be could have predicted that they are going to compete in beauty pageants, dress seductively, mostly ignore real feminists concerns and so on. That's because the ideal woman of a teenage boy is pretty much a beauty queen.