Saddened by the non-binary / theybie trend

submitted by [deleted] from self.GenderCritical

Every GNC women I know in my personal life now identifies as non-binary (except for me and one other). I hate finding new GNC artists whose content I enjoy, only to discover that they identity as a theybie. People just can't accept that a woman or a man won't be 100% a certain stereotype in the way they behave and look. It's like, if anyone lightly deviates from the norm, it MUST be because they are a different gender. /s

It truly is a cop-out for people who can't accept that they don't fit into gender roles. And while I am glad most non-binary people aren't surgically transitioning, in many ways, I feel like it is almost worse than being a trans man or woman by being even farther removed from reality. Accepting trans people was already a big enough shift in modern society. I never thought people calling themselves 'agender' or 'bigender' or 'xenogender' would ACTUALLY be taken seriously and supported in the modern day. What is happening to our society? We're choosing to protect the feelings of people living in fairytales over reality and fact. I'm scared as to where this may lead us. What's next? Transpecies? Transage?

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[–]anxietyaccount8 26 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 0 fun27 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I agree. They don't seem to realize that if EVERY masculine or vaguely GNC woman became "non-binary", the word "woman" would only include feminine women who completely fit the stereotype. And I also wonder, if they don't consider themselves women, do they not think that feminism or women's issues apply to them? There's so much confusion going on.

[–]yousaythosethings 18 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I know some non-binary lesbians who still talk a lot about women’s issues and clearly identify with them but consider themselves “genderqueer.” They look like normal, quite feminine homosexual females honestly. And they maintain that sex and gender are different and seem surprised when you point out that people are saying that biological sex isn’t real. When you question them about what why they’re genderqueer/non-binary, you get mumbo jumbo about “breaking the binary” and stuff that sounds like they want to be in control of their own destiny and how “pronouns are powerful.” They just ignore everything you say that doesn’t fit into their ideology. It’s sad and frustrating.

[–][deleted] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I guess they think feminism and women issues apply to them, cause there is "female enbies".. now what this actually mean is still a mystery to me. As soon as you talk about female socialization and biological reality, some of these same female enbies hurry to shut up any stuff that is cooking in your little TERF mind, so shush about logic and honest questions. I guess nothing about this makes sense and they now it deep down, that's why they don't think too much, only focus on shutting down any arguments right from the start.

[–]SpatOuttheKoolaid 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well, my 50 something "non binary entity" lesbian friend on Facebook, who, unlike the rest of us is "sometimes like a man and sometimes like a woman" but it's fine to "say she/her" talks about "women's issues" still, still calls herself "wife", still talks about "lesbian issues," talks about how "penises are gross" (I mean, I agree too but don't feel the need to announce this on FB, as "terfy" as I may be), but hates those "evil, vile terfs especially JK Rowling" seems to think so. But wants to remind us that she's "trans too not just lesbian!"

[–]Skipdip 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel you, it’s crazy. I did lose people over not believing in it. One told me I “harmed” her by literally just saying “non-binary is meaningless”. I think the harm came from her not being able to argue against that.

My personal stance now is my friends know where I stand. I’m not gonna redefine woman. It means female. Mostly I’m gonna avoid the kweers. If they can tolerate me having different beliefs then great. If they can’t then bye. I’m not a pronoun purist. Sometimes I use them sometimes I don’t. Kind of depends who I’m around and whether they will get triggered by me saying sexed pronouns.

[–]MarkTwainiac 21 insightful - 2 fun21 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

As an older person the same age as Annie Lennox who grew up and came to adulthood at a time when both males and females had wide latitude to do their own thing and not put much stock in "gender norms," I am so sad over what is going on with young women today.

Yesterday, this video came up in my YT queue. I am completely baffled by the pretty young woman who made it. Does she really think she isn't female? And that no one else can tell she's clearly female? There's nothing revolutionary about her look; tons of girls and women - and not just butch ones - have always had short hair and eschewed makeup and clothes seen as markedly "feminine."

https://youtu.be/ZfKD5LqddHM

I was also disturbed by this young woman's sanctimonious preaching, the way she just slagged off people she disagrees with by calling them names - bigot, transphobe, etc. And by the way she reacted to El Page's "coming out as trans" statement. Page's statement was a hackneyed, mawkish piece of TRA drivel full of lies about trans experiencing shockingly high rates of murder, violence suicide, and "hate" that was taken verbatim from the hacks at trans propaganda central. But this young woman acted as as if it were on par with the Sermon on the Mount and ML King's "I have a dream" speech. I believe she actually got teary after reading it.

I ended up watching her whole tiresome spiel just to see if she ever made any arguments. And I found that nope, she never even attempted to make an argument. It was just that the woman she was criticizing is in her opinion a TERF, and TERFs are bad. Sounded just like "Orange man bad" and "you're trash."

It's so sad that young people at a time in life when they are at or close to their intellectual peak are no longer learning how to debate - so many have no interest in it. And for all their talk about diversity and inclusion, it's clear they can't tolerate anyone with different ideas to their own, and are awfully quick to call for others to be banned, shunned, shamed and permanently exiled from society. This, to me, is one of the most unfortunate repercussions of the "no debate" and "speech I don't like is violence" ethos that so many young people have grown up with.

[–]Eurowoman24 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

i'm one of the few young people who agree with what you said, then again I think it takes a certain amount of culture and curiosity to realize that short, hair no makeup has already been done by many who still called themselves women.

[–]MarkTwainiac 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes, it does take a certain awareness that one's own culture is only one of many, a sense of history, and curiosity about other people, times and places.

With the internet, it's now so easy to learn about how styles have changed over the course of history, including recent history. It takes just a sec to do a google image search for topics like "women short hair history" or "women's work clothes history" - and just two minutes looking at the images that come up will show how silly it is to think that even in Western cultures girls and women customarily have always had long hair, worn tons of makeup, and gone about their everyday lives attired in frilly dresses or sexy impractical clothes.

I find it unfortunate that so many young people seem to be far more (or exclusively) interested in looking at the latest posts of celebs and their peers on Instagram rather than spending a few moments seeing what went on in the past - or how things are done in other cultures today. Not coz I think they should feel duty-bound to learn history or develop an awareness of other cultures, but coz I think they as individuals would personally benefit from doing so. Having a broader, deeper view really helps to put your own issues in perspective and makes people aware of the vast variation in human customs and styles, and that in turn will expand their sense of what can be possible in their own lives. IME, that really helps make individuals feel less straight-jacketed and improves their self-esteem.

[–]Eurowoman24 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

agreed unfortunately I think that lack of cultural intellect is pretty much missing from North Americain society in general.

[–]worried19 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's depressing when you see almost every other GNC female person jumping ship.

I don't know any other GNC women in real life, and to be honest, I would be afraid to get to know them for fear that they would just abandon womanhood, too. It's already happening with celebrities and public figures. Maybe some of the older ones are safe, but I think anyone under 40 is more likely than not to disavow their biological sex.

I've considered it myself. Why struggle to stay a woman in a world that hates all women? Why be GNC when I know I could pass flawlessly as a trans man? Why be female when I struggle with a shit ton of internalized misogyny, loathing, and contempt for other females? I guess the only thing stopping me is that I know it would be wrong, dangerous to my health, and would set a terrible example for the poor GNC girls who did not ask to be born into a society like this. If I abandon womanhood along with everyone else, they'll have no role models. I don't want to hurt the next generation like that.

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This picture of Katherine Hepburn from 1935 seems apropos here:

https://www.alamy.com/sylvia-scarlett-1935-radio-pictures-film-with-katharine-hepburn-image61884458.html

[–]CosmicFarmPrisoner 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

At what point is a woman gender-non-conforming? Which trumps: behavior, presentation, or life outcome? Most publicly visible GNC women seem like reactionary snowflakes, so it's not surprising where they end up.

Transpecies

Try transhumanism