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[–]artetolife 21 insightful - 3 fun21 insightful - 2 fun22 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Wikipedia's list of transgender murder victims is like this too. Half of them were not trans by anyone's definition.

[–]VioletRemi 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That was the reason by admins why it was deleted, as at least half were cross-dressers or transvestites, even thought by Stonewall those are now counted as trans.

[–]oyasuminasai50 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Pretty gross how they 1) have to inflate trans death statistics to strengthen their argument, and b) even the inflated metrics still show that trans and non-binary individuals are not killed more often than their "cis" peers.

[–]winterwillow 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I think HRC also names 'non-binary' Summer Taylor (the woman being hit by a car at a blm march in Seattle this July) as a trans death.

[–]blackrainbow 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is ridiculous ahahah

[–]hfxB0oyA 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

When your absolute numbers are low, even the addition of one extra person can make for a big year-over-year swing when expressed as a percentage.

[–]Hypothetical_Concept 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

In order to make the point that any group X is subject to violence due to prejudice and hatred, wouldn’t those compiling a list of victims need to make some effort to show that this is why they were specifically targeted? Whether the drag performer identified as transgender or not isn’t really important if they were attacked or murdered because someone believed they were transgender.

The relevant factor isn’t death or trans status, but a critical connection between the two: did the attacker specifically target someone who was transgender because they hate transgender people? Otherwise, the statistic should be used on some other list.

Once the obvious mistakes are weeded out, it seems to me biggest hurdle these “transgender murder victims” lists have to overcome is figuring out how to distinguish between someone killed because they were transgender — and someone killed because they were gay, lesbian, and/or dressed in the “wrong” clothes. Has there ever been any transwoman who was subject to physical violence or the victim of a homicide who would have been left alone if the perpetrator had been fooled into believing they were gay, or a transvesite, instead?

I do not know, but suspect that all the violence against people who identify as transgender is really violence against people who are Gender Non-Conforming. In which case, these lists can’t be used to make any point about a unique prejudice of “transphobia.”

In which case, they can’t be linked to Gender Critical beliefs, or the people who hold them.

[–]MarkTwainiac 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If you look into the details of these cases of homicide, you'll find that animus towards the victims for being trans, gay, lesbian, dressed in the "wrong" clothes or "gender non-conforming" is hardly ever a motive or a factor in their deaths.

In the "trans" murders that occurred in the USA from 2015 through 2019, 30% are unsolved and thus the details not known, but in the 70% of cases where the identity of the killer was determined, 37% of these homicides occurred within the context of ongoing domestic violence and the killer was a spouse, life partner or roommate (and sometimes the person who died allegedly started the fight in which he died). Another 28% of the homicides were related to the victims working as prostitutes, but in most cases the killer was not a stranger, but rather a pre-existing customer, acquaintance or rival with whom the decedent had a beef.

A lot of the remaining homicides occurred in the the context of other criminal activity (robbery, mugging, drug dealing/use, gang violence) and petty disputes and longstanding feuds. Though the trans lobby paints all trans people, including those who die of homicide, as innocent angels and a sacred caste who can do no wrong, the fact is trans-identified males are just as prone to violence and crime as other males of their same age, ethnicity/race, socioeconomic status and background.

When trans activists raise a hue and cry about all the "black transwomen" being murdered in the US, they always conveniently fail to mention that according to trans research and lobby groups themselves, 50-68% of black "transwomen" in the US have criminal convictions and have served time in prison. TRAs will say that this is entirely due to racism, transphobia, & anti-LGBTQ prejudice on the part of police and the criminal justice system - and indeed such factors probably have worked against these guys to stack the deck against them. But I highly doubt that this accounts for ALL their criminal convictions. Fact is, these men tend to be very troubled individuals with high rates of joblessness, lack of education and skills, homelessness, drug and alcohol addiction, stormy personal relationships, HIV and other STDs etc who run in violent crowds and - they are given to a high degree of anti-social behaviors and very quick to lash out in violence themselves when distressed, drunk, high on drugs, angry, or they feel insulted. Many have poor impulse control and never learned non-violent ways of settling disputes or dealing with uncomfortable emotions.

As is the case in some of the domestic violence deaths, sometimes the trans persons who ended up dead were the ones to start the fight in which they died. In other cases, trans people died in accidental homicides or in shooting or stabbing attacks on several people at once - the trans persons were not the sole target or only victims.

In only four out of 118 trans homicides in the US from 2015 through 2019 was it found that anti LGBT animus was a motive.

I've looked into the details of several of the "trans" homicide cases that occurred in the USA in 2020. In at least two, the decedents were shot dead by police in what officials deemed to be justifiable shootings. In one case, the trans person was a TIF who had recently gotten out of federal prison after 10 years for violent crimes, and for weeks had been menacing and threatening to murder a former GF as well as the TIF's own mother. At the time of death, the TIF had just murdered a young man (the son of her former GF) and was holding a gun to her mother's head and threatening to kill the cops too. In the other case, the decedent was killed after lunging at a police officer with a large knife after refusing to heed orders to drop the knife and stop; but the cop who did the shooting couldn't have had any idea the man he killed "identified as" trans coz he looked and was dressed like any other regular guy.

Another trans homicide that occurred in the US in 2020 took place at a memorial service/vigil for someone else held in a private residence where "a fight broke out" and someone stabbed a TIM to death; friends and acquaintances of the deceased who were there and witnessed what happened have refused to help police solve the crime.

Still another trans homicide from 2020 occurred in a men's homeless shelter where a resident in a seeming act of random violence stabbed four other residents, immediately killing two and seriously wounding two. Tellingly, the press only made a big deal out of the supposed "transwoman" who was killed - the other guy who was killed wasn't even named or described in any media reports, nor have any trans lobby groups like the HRC taken a moment to mourn or even mention him. Also, from the picture of the "transwoman" who was killed, there'd be no way anyone would know he's trans from his appearance - he looked like a typical late middle-aged hippie guy who wore his scraggly hair long with a bandana covering the crown, along with colorful T shirts and some beads.

Meanwhile, on the Trans Day of Remembrance 2020, famous and highly acclaimed British author, historian and TIM Jan Morris died at age 94. In nearly 50 years since becoming a very public "transsexual" in the early 1970s, Morris - a father of five who continued to live with his wife after his "sex change" surgery in 1972 - was never subjected to or threatened with any violence from strangers or intimates. Nor did Morris receive any opprobrium from the wider public - or even mild censure or harassment either. On the contrary, Morris sailed through life as he had done prior to going "trans," continuing to win accolades and awards, publishing contracts and all sorts of prestigious positions. Morris was even named a Commander of the British Empire - one step below knighthood - by Queen Elizabeth II. From Wikipedia:

Morris received honorary doctorates from the University of Wales and the University of Glamorgan, was an honorary fellow of Christ Church, Oxford, and was a fellow of the Royal Society of Literature. She received the Glyndŵr Award for Outstanding Contribution to the Arts in Wales in 1996. She accepted her CBE in the 1999 Birthday Honours "out of polite respect", but Morris was a Welsh nationalist republican at heart. In 2005, she was awarded the Golden PEN Award by English PEN for "a Lifetime's Distinguished Service to Literature".In January 2008, The Times named her the 15th greatest British writer since the War. She has featured in the Pinc List of leading Welsh LGBT figures. She won the 2018 Edward Stanford Outstanding Contribution to Travel Writing Award.

Now it could be that Morris never suffered any violence or threats of violence coz Morris lived in the UK, where there is much less violence than in the US. However, I don't think that's really the case. The UK has a much lower homicide rate than the US coz in Britain there's strict gun control. But there's plenty of other kinds of violence in the UK - particularly male domestic violence against women, male sexual violence against women and children, male gang violence and male violence motivated by racial and other kinds of prejudice. No, Morris lived a life without censure or violence coz Morris is a male who decided to claim to be a woman - and in the UK as in the US, males who do this are actually safer than males who do not.

[–]Hypothetical_Concept 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That’s an impressive amount of information. Thank you.

[–]PassionateIntensity 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

In addition to Mark Twainiac's information -- someone back on the old GC group went through 2 years of HRC's trans "murder" victims to find motives. Many of them weren't even homicides, the vast majority weren't motivated by transphobia. The stats are deliberately faked. I can't find a copy of these posts at, my hard drive, or Lipstick alley (I think it was x-posted). If anyone else remembers this, please link!

[–]milkmender11 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Oh, that's not even the half of it. I was in a graduate course about, among other things, the oppression of trans people. There are academic studies that will perform incredible intellectual gymnastics to inflate the number of trans people when it is convenient by lumping in anyone who is 'intersex,' including people with nontypical genital development, like cliteromegaly or micro penis. So if you have a small penis, congradulations, you are a trans woman whether you want to be one or not, and without anyone ever asking you if you want to be categorized that way.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They usually include males with hypospadias - the urethra ending and coming out any part of the penis other than the end or tip - as "intersex" too. Also, what qualifies as a "micro penis" or enlarged clit upon cursory visual inspection/assessment at birth does not necessarily meet the criteria for these conditions once puberty commences.

I've known a couple of grown men with "micro penises." There's nothing "intersex" or "trans" about them.