C Jenner's Position About TIMs in Girls' Scholastic Sports Represents A Sea Change; Previously Jenner Argued TIMs Have "No Advantage" Over "Other Girls" & Should Be Allowed to Compete in Female Sports

submitted by MarkTwainiac from self.GenderCritical

Caitlyn Jenner's May 1 comments about keeping girls' scholastic sports female-only are significant not just coz Jenner is a former world-class athlete - and winner of the gold in an Olympic event that still in 2021 is not offered to female athletes - who now is also running for governor of CA as a "transwoman." Jenner's comments are significant coz they show Jenner has done a total about-face from his previous stance first articulated in 2015-16.

Since his "transition," C Jenner has competed in - and won - some women's golf tournaments, made a point of using women's locker rooms, and also often (sometimes?) using the women's tees rather than the men's. https://www.desertsun.com/story/sports/golf/ana-inspiration/2017/03/29/caitlyn-jenner-returns-desert-lpga-pro-am/99788708/

Most significant, in the past Jenner has publicly been unequivocal in stating that that males who identify as the opposite sex should be able to compete in girls & women's sports across the board because, he claimed, the International Olympic Committee has determined beyond question that males who suppress their T as part of "transition" have no advantages over females in sports.

At the start of this trans propaganda film https://youtu.be/qZ8axU8POs4 from 2016 Jenner said:

I don't think a transgendered athlete - male to female, female to male, whatever it may be - really has any advantage whatsoever. There's so much more to sports than gender, than your identity. No one gives anything away in sports. You've got to earn it.

At 14:13 he said

The public thinks that the trans female has a tremendous advantage over all the other girls. I think the IOC is proving that this is not the case.

And he added that so long as an adult male abides by the IOC's rule that a TIM must lower his T to 10 nmol/L (a level 5-33 times higher than the normal female range) for 12 months, then being male

is no advantage whatsoever.

Apparently, since making these comments Jenner has been informed that the IOC's current policy is not based on proof or any scientific evidence whatsoever. Rather, the sole basis for it is one discredited faux-"scientific" paper in which a TIM TRA reported with no independent verification that his time and the times of 7 other TIMs in various running events got slower after they began taking estrogen and T suppressants. There was a vast range in the length of time between the race results of the athletes that the paper compared: in the case of one athlete, the "before" & "after" times compared were 29 years apart.

It's because of Jenner's past position on TIMs in women's sports and his behavior vis-a-vis women's golf that his comments about school sports yesterday are so significant - and hypocritical.

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[–]Tarlatan 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Scads of people have been silenced on social media for presenting the facts Jenner's presenting, so I'm glad to see this. Very interested to see if Jenner will stand firm on this or get "educated." (Your serve, Martina.)

[–]slushpilot 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

(Your serve, Martina.)

Yup...

Not sure what I gather from that, I do wish she'd elaborate.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

what more needs to be said? the sign says it all tbh

[–]slushpilot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

It does. She is an important voice though, and I wish she'd stop tiptoeing around the issue.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

But she's not?

I don't understand what you want from her?

[–]slushpilot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

To be more direct and say what she means in her own words, instead of just a retweet with "yup". I expect her to say something like "I support the Arkansas bill to protect women's sports, even though these are my sworn political enemies".

However, I don't actually know what her stance is or what her principles are. She seems to tweet a lot of opinions about things, except this. Hence why I called it tiptoeing. Maybe I'm wrong and I've missed something though.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You seem to have missed a lot. She wrote letters, tweets, gave interviews for years now ...

https://youtu.be/VG568CEUIZE

https://www.advocate.com/transgender/2020/8/03/martina-navratilova-supports-idahos-ban-trans-female-athletes

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-biden-transgender-navratilova-idUSKBN2A32AR

[–]slushpilot 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh, you're right. Thank you. She seems to be smart enough to know not to debate this on Twitter.

Her position seems somewhat nuanced with regards to elite sport vs. everything else and she's actively trying to engage the opposing viewpoints. Her take is constructive to get people to start thinking back towards a sane middle ground. I personally think the same rules should apply to everyone including children at least at the point when sexes start to differ significantly—in any sanctioned sports after about age 10-12 or so. How else does someone become an elite athlete, it can't be some magical line where the rules suddenly change. Why indulge boys with false hopes and overinflate their egos, and simultaneously discourage girls who would otherwise be top of their category.

[–]slushpilot 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

his comments about school sports yesterday are so significant - and hypocritical.

It's not hypocritical to be provided with new information and then re-evaluate your position though.

[–]MarkTwainiac[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Good point. Although I suspect his initial position was based on more on wishful thinking and swallowing & repeating the standard trans propaganda lines rather than on evaluating (factual) information.

I do wonder how he's gonna justify his playing in women's golf tournaments and using women's tees. The male-over-female advantage in driving a golf ball is almost as vast as in throwing, batting, punching & serving a tennis ball coz it's all about upper body size & strength and the power of men's shoulders, arms and hands. All of which remain pretty much unchanged when T is suppressed.

[–]grixit 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Someone needs to make a nice clear image that combines a picture of Jenner with his statement at a resolution high enough to be usable for a big poster. Then we have a picture we can drop into online conversations and wave during demonstrations. Let's double dog dare them to call Jenner a terf!

[–]aloris342 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The practice of referring to "other girls" is prejudicial and assumes the conclusion it is trying to prove. It is a logical fallacy that misleads the general listener into the assumption that trans girls are a kind of female person, when in reality trans girls are biologically male and should correctly fit into the category of male persons. The general listener thinks, "well of course any particular kind of girl should compete with other girls." But the real question is whether biological males should be allowed to compete with biological females if they wish to do so, and another question is whether biological males who wish to compete as if they were biological females should have the right to entirely redefine the category of biological female, not just for themselves, but also for everyone else.