Abigail Shrier is cheering on Bruce Jenner for California Governor (and uses female pronouns for him) - talk about mixed messages...

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[–]MarkTwainiac 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Since she began speaking about this topic publicly, Shrier's position has always been that she respects adults' right/decision to alter their bodies & to claim a "trans" identity because she believes that for some adults (such as Buck Angel) it's a legitimate, beneficial way of ameliorating their deep distress. She has also said many times that she uses the preferred pronouns of trans-identified adults.

Whether or not Shrier truly believes that there is really is such a thing as "true trans" or "justifiable adult transition" is another matter. But in today's climate, I certainly can see why Shrier and her advisers would conclude this is the most tenable and politic position for her to take.

Lots of people take positions on various topics that some other other people find contradictory when viewed from their own perspective. That doesn't mean those positions are inherently illogical or unreasonable.

[–]BEB[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Also from Abigail Shrier, author of IRREVERSIBLE DAMAGE, the book about the trans craze among young girls.

I don't get how one can be as eloquent as Abigail was speaking in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee against the Equality Act, and yet endorse a TiM for a powerful political office AND use female pronouns for him.

Plus Bruce is a know-nothing famewhore partially responsible for the Kardashian Scourge...

Abigail:

"The ad is phenomenal. Notice she never pretends she wasn't Bruce Jenner."

https://twitter.com/AbigailShrier/status/1389740065694261250

[–]MarkTwainiac 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Not to defend Jenner, but I find the claim that

Bruce is a know-nothing

About the unfairness of allowing males into girls' & women's sports to be unjustified and unfair. Athletes don't get to the pinnacle of sports like Jenner did without learning and coming to understand a great deal about human physiology and what male and female bodies are capable of achieving in athletics - and other contexts too. Just because athletes are highly muscled and physically talented doesn't mean they're all brawn and no brain as the stereotypes about them say.

Also, I think that Jenner knows a lot about the difference in male and female physiology coz of his "lived experience" as a heterosexual man of more than 70 with autogynephilia who has fathered many children and spent his whole adult life until very recently attached at the hip, as it were, and dependent on female partners.

After all, Jenner isn't just some 20-year-old AGP whose experience of sex, sexual relationships and life in general comes mainly from gaming, watching porn, anime, fantasy & fapping. Jenner is a dad/stepdad of 10, grandfather of more than 20 (at last count), and a man who spent his adult entire life from circa age 20 until his mid-late 60s partnered/married to women. Yes, Jenner was serially married to different women, but tellingly there was little space in between his different relationships/marriages with women. Until he started pretending to be a woman himself, Jenner as an adult always had a female partner/wife - he never lived alone as a single man/bachelor without a female partner close by to lean on until he went "trans." In fact, his opposition to gay marriage has always seemed to be at least partially based on his belief that it's the natural order for men to need and be dependent on women - that behind every successful man must be a woman.

ETA: In looking up Jenner's HS & college athletic career, I found out that his college degree is in Physical Education.

[–]GConly 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Athletes don't get to the pinnacle of sports like Jenner did without learning and coming to understand a great deal about human physiology and what male and female bodies are capable of achieving in athletics

Exactly. I think he can probably sense the way this will probably turn out, long term.

That and not every TW believes the "there's no difference after HRT" bollocks. I've seen a fair few wince at the TRAs spouting it.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, there are quite a number of TIMs who say that even after many years of THT (T suppression + CSH) they still retain many physical features that give them an enormous advantage over women in sports.

It's also the case that after "transition" the views of some heterosexual AGPs who've "transitioned" in middle age or later grow more moderate. A common pattern is that they first "transition," they are insistent that now they are "real women" and must be seen as such. But as the initial high wears off and reality sets in, some realize that they whilst they might have altered their appearance to outwardly resemble "real women" they are still not really women. Jan Morris and Renee Richards, two AGP dads who "transitioned" in their 40s in the 1970s, both modified their views over the years. As Debbie Hayton, another heterosexual father who transitioned in his 40s, has done more recently. I suspect that being fathers and grand fathers might have something to do with it.

The other thing that's key here is that Jenner's comments were about schools sports specifically - which are what all the bills recently proposed in the US state legislatures concern. In the US, males have been most successful so far in invading female scholastic sports specifically. And not just any sports, but the particular area of sports in which Jenner became an Olympian - track & field. As a decathlete, Jenner no doubt is acutely aware of how unfair it is to have allowed two boys/men - Terrry Miller & Andraya Yearwood - to dominate in HS sprints in CT and the Northeast, CeCe Telfer to use "transition" to go from being ranked 390th as a man to becoming the No 1 national women's champion in the NCAA D2 400m hurdles, and for Montana runner June Eastwood to use "transition" his senior year in college to clean up in women's cross country after failing to live up to his promise as a male runner in his first three years at university. (Eastwood, one of the best male HS runners in Montana history & a statewide champion, was plagued by injuries in college and so went from being one of the state's star athletes with golden boy status to being just another mediocre male turning in disappointing performances. I have no doubt that his decision to "transition" was a way of coping with his fall from grace.)

As one of the USTAF's leading lights and a longtime trustee of the USTAF foundation, Jenner also has to be aware that track & field is one of the sports areas Title IX has had the most greatest impact on, and that vast numbers of girls & women have benefitted to a remarkable extent. A disproportionately large number of girls & women who have gone to college on sports scholarships since Title IX was implemented have been track & field athletes. Moreover, a large number of the girls & women to become standouts & scholarship winners in track & field have been racial minorities, specifically African American.

Since the "controversy" over trans-identified males in female scholastic sports blew up since 2017 Miller & Yearwood started trouncing girls in CT, at at New England and Tristate regionals, in 2017, Jenner must have realized that if he had come out as "trans" in HS or actually been a girl in HS he would not have had any chance to get a college scholarship (his was in football) or to become a star & Olympic gold medalist in track & field. Because Jenner went to HS & college before Title IX. As a result, if he had been born a girl, there would have been no school sports for him, no chance to shine, and no scholarship opportunities. If he had been a "trans girl" in HS or college, there would have been no girls or women's sports teams for him to muscle in on, no girls or women for him to trounce.

[–]BEB[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm talking about Jenner being a "know-nothing" as in "There's no way in hell he's qualified to be the governor of California."

Abigail's remarks are about Jenner's run for governor, rather than his knowledge of being a TiM, or sports.

California already had Ah-Nuld, who would still, sadly, seem like George Washington compared to Bruce.

Abigail is an extremely intelligent woman, so to see her get taken in by Jenner's celebrity bullshit, but also to see her send the message out that she believes that a TiM should be in a position of power in a state where the Transgender Agenda has done such incredible damage already (jail for "misgendering", TiMs in women's prisons/ nursing home & long term disability facilities) is really disappointing to me.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I don't see how there are mixed messages?

Jenner is speaking out against TIMs in womensports. This is good for us. Calling Jenner him in public would only cause her to get an enormous backlash and have all the genderists go "see she is transphobic"

[–]BEB[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Abigail tweet is endorsing Jenner's campaign ad. The last thing the hippy-dippy, airy-fairy state of Trans Uber Alles California needs is another celebrity governor, much less a TiM celebrity governor.

And the last thing all the female detransitioners and their parents, who found some kind of explanation of the crazy spiral they got sucked into in Abigail's book, need is her appearing to endorse this man, because he is clearly an autogynephile and so, far from being a "True Trans, (which I personally believe is a mental illness) he's simply a heterosexual male who gets off on cross-dressing.

And really - Abigail spoke in front of the US Senate and probably did a considerable amount to save Americans from the Equality Act, so for her to suddenly appear to endorse a TiM for an incredibly important political role will come across as an endorsement of the True Trans narrative and set our struggle back immeasurably.

[–]one1won 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

An opposing view to user needmorecoffee:

Scream it from the rooftops - The House Is On Fire!! This Is Not A Drill. Women's safety, dignity, and personhood are at stake.

Screw being "nice" or "empathetic"! There's a place for rage in advocacy, and shutting up or shutting down women capable of channeling their rage is misogynistic. Well behaved women seldom make history!

A single focus strategy is ineffective. 2nd wave feminists didn't accomplish so many gains by solely using "politically correct" speech. Fuck being empathetic! Dudes screech when they believe they're being stomped on - if women don't get nasty, dudes assume women consent/agree. Well, I fucking don't! Sometimes, you have to "speak their language" to be understood.

I may not always agree with an individual woman's position/outlook on issues, I DO vehemently defend her right to her opinions and approach. Even user's needmorecoffee - for the userself, but not any behavior-policing.

[–]BEB[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I read this post before I read needmorecoffee's reply to me. My thoughts:

Women's collective rage has fueled a lot of change. And sometimes, since so many of us are trained from birth to be kind, and to not speak out, sometimes an angry, but well-spoken, woman shocks men, and women with internalized misogyny, into listening.

I also think that many women are silently seething, or at least becoming very concerned, about this issue as it becomes apparent that the Gender Mob has launched a War on Women, so when one of us harpies (and I don't mind being called a harpy) start banging the drums, it emboldens other women to also speak out.

But also, I remember the tail-end of Second Wave feminism, and from my young perspective, it was a very broad movement - women of every color and socio-economic class had just had it with our oppression. So 2nd Wave feminism was a collective scream, but it wouldn't have been possible without the women who were willing to risk everything by starting their own screaming first.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

No it does not.

What does set our struggle back immeasurably, and what people like you don't want to hear, is that we can't just go "all tims as fetishists". The only thing they can hold over the head of gender criticals is that we are supposedly all transphobic bigots.

I get most of us are angry and frustrated but acting just the way the genderists say we act is not a good look especially to the majority of people who have no idea what is going on.

We need to be nuanced and show empathy to mental illness and if there a TIM that is not completely horrible we cant just attack them because they are a TIM. Acting like a bull in a china shop is hurting us horribly every single day.

Whether you like it or not, no one listens to women. Our voices do not mean shit. So we need men, gay men and even truscum transsexuals on our side to make our voices sound louder.

If you can't even see this and just keep raging than you aren't doing this for our cause, you are doing it for your own anger. Cool down and think. We need to be strategic about this shit to get rid of it asap. Anything else sets us back.

[–]BEB[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I spent quite a bit of time as a professional monitoring global events, including US elections and elections around the world. IMO, Abigail Shrier, a conservative Republican, a very prominent voice against the automatic transitioning of minors and one of the few people allowed by the Senate Judiciary Committee to testify against the Equality Act (or was she the only one?) endorsing a TiM for governor of California will legitimize the True Trans narrative among people who have not been paying attention. It will therefore make those of us fighting to retain our rights, our sex-segregated spaces and our sports, seem unreasonable.

At my age, I don't give an F what people call me - and when I contact politicians, journalists, etc., about this issue I give them my credentials, which is often enough to make them listen. And then I couch my arguments against the Cult of Genderology using logic, and irrefutable facts and figures.

I agree that men (and sometimes other women) will use any excuse not to listen to women, but when women have credentials and can counter any of the opposing arguments with iron clad arguments, we can get our point across.

I think Abigail's stellar academic credentials are one of the reasons she is taken seriously. People are listening to her, and that's what I fear with her endorsement of Bozo Bruce - I don't know Bruce, but know many people who do, and the consensus is he's a schmuck.

[–]NeedMoreCoffee 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

For starters imho Shrier is not taken seriously. They constantly paint her as a wall street journalist that does know nothing about gender issues. The only reason she has gotten a platform is the backlash and freak outs of the gender ideologues which resulted in the banning of her books which made people want to read it which made her a successful selling author.

Credentials mean nothing when you are a woman. Not ONE women's organization was consulted anywhere on the planet before all this gender shit made it into law and organizations. If they were there would have discussions about the conflict of rights and demands from the start. I don't know about you, but i have not seen any such debates.

I see no issue with the true trans rethoric because that is reality. There always have been an extremely small group of homosexual boys who found it very hard to live with who they are and can't cope emotionally. I knew one in the 90's and frankly everyone, including himself, saw him as a gay man and he was just trying to live his life. I have no issues with that and I never will.

If anything I am completely fine with the rethoric that kids turned a mental illness into a fashion trend just like they used to do with cutting in the 90's, or anorexia before that. It helps it explain how it can be a social contagion that is affecting kids, which is again what Abigails book is about. Returing it to a mental illness that needs a lot of therapy before transition is even considered if for me the best outcome. Removing self ID, reevalution and removal of affirming therapy. Holding the medical profession accountable is a must.

In turn this will put a spotlight on AGP and once we get there the conflict with women's rights will be overwhelmingly visible and understandable by all.

You seem to forget most people do not know what is going on and think this gender cult is the new gay civil rights movement. It needs to go back to being a mental illness because those are totally different conversations. Should a mentally ill man be in womans sports or a womans prison? definitely not.

That is a better conversation then all these lgbtqwtfbbq children are perverts and harrassing women, one that is easier to sell and makes us look like we have a point instead of being bigots.

Shrier is smart. Here is this transphobic author supporting jenner while the genderists throw hissy fits and call bruce a fake trans and tell him to kill himself.

You could not get more widespread positive publicity for the gender critical side if you tried. And I just wish the GC women would stop being their own worst enemy and fucking ruin it instead of surfing this huge glorious wave

A reminder again, there are rapists men in women's prisons. We can't get our point across we lost the war. Women are second rate citizens. Stop being an angry bull in a china chop.

[–]BEB[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm angry on here but IRL I spent years dealing with very powerful people so do know how to restrain myself when it's in the best interests of the arguments I am making. Although, I feel that anger does have its place in certain situations.

And I think that while Shrier might be ridiculed by a certain crowd (the Dumbo SJW TRAs), her book made very prestigious lists (THE ECONOMIST, THE TIMES UK) and is being translated into multiple languages.

Shrier also got to testify in front of the Senate Judiciary Committee about the dangers of the Equality Act, which she did masterfully. Just the fact that out of all Americans, Abigail got to testify indicates to me that many powerful people take her seriously.

And, having read Shrier's twitter, and her articles, since well before IRREVERSIBLE DAMAGE was published, I would say that she's actually excited by Jenner as a candidate, because she is a conservative, she hates California Democrats and most of California's liberal policies, and she was waxing poetic about Jenner's campaign ad.

So I don't think she's supporting Jenner as some kind of chess move to underhandedly prove to the world that most TiMs are nuts, I think she actually is considering endorsing him as governor of California.

And that bums me out because the man is a perverted, famewhore who has zero integrity, much less any knowledge of government, who was proven just now to have lied about voting, and who probably couldn't run a can drive much less the massive and unwieldly state of California.

[–]BEB[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thinking more on this: I don't know if Abigail is aware that Bruce Jenner has admitted to "borrowing" his teen daughters underwear and also that he infamously said that the hardest part about being a woman was figuring out what to wear.

But if she is, and she still thinks a man with his contempt for his own female family members, as well as women in general, is fit to be governor of an extremely powerful state, full of, yes, WOMEN, then I am disappointed in her stance.

Maybe she needs to do more research on Ms. Jenner?

[–]one1won 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Not a Californian, but I like seeing Jenner run for Governor. That's his right. I hope he doesn't win, but the entertainment value is high. ;)

I'm less concerned with Ms Shrier than the electorate in CA. (Or the power infrastructure in that state).

Sunlight is the best disinfectant. Bring the Genderwoowoo IRL - see how it stands up.

[–]BEB[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I don't know how old you are, but California has a history of Clown Car governor races.

In 2003, actors Arnold Schwarzenegger and Gary Coleman were running against political opportunist, Arianna Huffington, founder of the Huffington Post, and also Hustler magazine publisher, Larry Flynt, former Major League Baseball Commissioner Peter Ueberroth, comedian Leo Gallagher and adult film actress Mary Carey.

It sounds like fun, but for Californians, it is a disaster, because FUCKING Ah-nuld won and was, as expected, inept.

So, far from being an outlier, I think that Brucelyn has a shot. And that would be a real tragedy, because then the GOP wouldn't be able to stand up against the translaught without looking like hypocrites (not that they care...)

[–]one1won 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I am aware.

That's why I also stated

I'm less concerned with Ms Shrier than the electorate in CA. (Or the power infrastructure in that state).

California politics and Florida Man - US embarrassments for over half a century. ;). (Only half joking)

[–]BEB[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I think that younger Americas are semi-unaware that celebrities were not usually taken seriously as politicians until recently, which is why I asked how old you are.

But I really feel that Ah-Nuld led to Donnie Dump who could well lead to Brucelyn. We're becoming accustomed to have Batshit Inappropriate Candidate becoming the victor.

And if Brucelyn is elected as a Republican governor of the US's most populated and probably most powerful, or second most powerful, state, then the GOP will be forced into backing the transgenda and it's game over for American women.

[–]one1won 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I didn't realize you weren't conversing with me, but addressing readers.

Don't forget actor from 1930's ->, two time ScreenActorsGuild President, two term CA governor, and US President, Ronald Reagan. Celebrity turned politician.

https://m.imdb.com/name/nm0001654/bio?ref_=m_mn_ov_bio

CA is a unique state.

Edit: SPIN has been public since the 1990's

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0115369/

Younger readers may choose to search the term "spin doctors"

ETA: Pat Paulsen. Can't say I didn't consider voting for him some dismal elections! https://www.theattic.space/home-page-blogs/2020/2/1/pat-paulsen-for-president

Imagine that - old folks had both a sense of humor and insight. Satire, back then? Whhhhaaaaatttt?

(Guy is a comedian. These are jokes) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qn69wP-jD2Y

(Paulsen died in 2004, and Gary Hart was exposed as a philanderer - "big stick")

[–]BEB[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

OMG - HOW could I forget Ray-Gun. Thanks for reminding me. NOT /s

I did see Ray Gun speak once. It was actually around the time of his saying that, "Trees cause more pollution than automobiles do." The idea that this know-nothing buffoon was president was surreal.

But then we had Forrest Dump.

And now men can be women, or rather Better Than Women, just by saying they are. The world just becomes more and more absurd...

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The only mixed message is caused by TRAs who portray her as queen of the bigot TERFs. Shrier has always been an inoffensive trandmedicalist who's only sin is wanting true facts about ROGD.

[–]MarkTwainiac 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And she's a political and social conservative.

[–]usehername 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

She's a truscum/transmed believer. Seems that no one is willing to tackle this issue at the root.

[–]BEB[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's what I'm thinking now and I had (and still have) a tremendous amount of respect for all that she's done.

However, I think that her endorsement of Jenner's ad is incredibly destructive to our effort.