TIF goes on a board for caregivers for old people, rants about how she's gonna wear a tie in front of grandpa, and cause drama for the family

submitted by WrongToy from self.GenderCritical

https://www.agingcare.com/questions/do-any-lgbtq-folks-have-experience-with-being-pressured-to-visit-intolerant-relatives-470593.htm?orderby=recent

Who knows how long this TIF has actually been transitioning, but it's not that damn long if you're employing the hormone therapy before your voice changes, you get facial hair and other (sometimes permanent) features that obviate the discussion about what one is wearing, particularly menswear.

She sounds extremely young and spoiled, like those assholes who out-asshole some crazy uncle or maybe even their mom by getting uber social-justicy on thanksgiving dinner with the fam so they can brag about it on reddit. If she is this concerned about clothing at this stage, she's possibly seen as female by, well, just about everyone. Let alone senile grandpa there.

For goodness sake, if one of my nephews decided to transition and be as insufferable as this woman, I'd bow out of thanksgiving myself.

The way to handle her situation with gramps is if he calls you Mary, you gently say your name is Charles now. He asks why, and you say you're living as a male now. And if he still doesn't get it and you feel like you're gonna 41 percent yourself, then do yourself a favor and don't see him again.

Seriously, the way the TIF put it was genuinely female, and on top of it you have all these TiMs imitating them and most of the audience thinking that this has anything to do with homosexuality (other than the fact she's in a lesbian relationship and thus claiming it "as a man."

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[–]artetolife 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Since when has a woman wearing a tie been that shocking? Was gramps admitted to hospital in the 1970s? I suspect she's exaggerating this story to have her oppressed lgbt moment - the "queer" character visiting sick elderly relatives and being accepted or rejected is a super common trope in lgbt movies and TV.

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, gramps probably never saw any movies, photos or videos showing women like Marline Dietrich, Bette Davis, Katharine Hepburn, Brigette Bardot, Audrey Hepburn, Diane Keaton, Chrissie Hynde, Annie Lennox, Grace Jones, Madonna, Julia Roberts, Beyonce, etc wearing neckties.

Gramps no doubt never took note of any women in the US military who wore dress uniforms with neckties going back at least to WW1 more than 100 years ago.

https://americanhistory.si.edu/blog/picturing-womens-participation-during-great-war

He probably never saw any of the zillion girls who traditionally have worn neckties as part of their school uniforms, either.

[–]JasonNecks 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Generally speaking, I think we should be tolerant towards the elderly and be willing to make personal sacrifices for their comfort, even if it goes against one's political goals or pride or whatever. Being old is very unpleasant for a lot of people, and we should try to be considerant of that.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But to me, being tolerant of the elderly means younger people not projecting their fantasies and their own prejudices onto us seniors, and not assuming you know ahead of time what we think and how we will react to situations that haven't occurred yet.

To me, what stood out about this TIF's diatribe is that Gramps has actually not expressed any dismay or disapproval about her clothing style, "identity" or homosexuality himself because he hasn't been given a chance to see or talk to her in years. The claims that Gramps will be "upset" to see a woman in a necktie or learn that his grandkid is a lesbian are all imagined hypotheticals made up by other people in her family, her therapist and herself. They are not realities that have come from Gramps. All these other people are behaving as though they have powers of clairvoyance that enable them to read Grandpa's mind and predict with 100% confidence how he'll react to his grand daughter in any future dealings with her.

I am pressured to keep in contact with my grandfather. I am pressured to meet with him, but the family tells me to take off my ties. Grandpa is of sound mind. My parents and uncle say that the ties will upset him. I haven't seen or spoken to him in years, since knowing that I transitioned would hurt his feelings and I didn't want to cause him pain. My compromise was not to hurt his feelings but also not to hurt my feelings by pretending to be someone I am not. My parents can make something up for why I can't speak to grandpa, like I lost my phone or am out of the country. I don't waive it in anyone's face, but I don't change my style of dress for anyone. I am considerate, so if it's an event at a nice restaurant, I will wear "male" dress pants rather than "male" jeans, which I wear normally, but I will not wear a dress or skirt just to please someone's emotions. Because grandpa grew up in a conservative environment, my therapist said he is unable to understand. But, I think, it's more "unwilling." Regardless of how he grew up, if he wants to accept me, he will. If he wants to learn about LGBTQ culture, he can. It's a choice. But age and background aren't excuses for intolerance. But I know he won't accept it and seeing me in a tie will make him upset. Calling me by my male name will make him upset. So I just stay away. A therapist told me that I am being selfish and inflexible by refusing to take off my tie. My therapist said if I truly love someone, like a family member, I will take off my tie in an act of compassion. My therapist said I am lacking in compassion. Is the therapist right or is the therapist a homophobe?

As for your own comment that

Being old is very unpleasant for a lot of people, and we should try to be considerant of that.

The fundamental fact you are overlooking is that being old means you've been alive for a long time, and in the process you've seen, heard and dealt with a lot, including a lot of different kinds of people and a lot of social change, fashion trends, ideological movements and fads. Old people have a great deal of life experience, and have pretty much "seen it all." This attitude that that we need need to be handled with kid gloves and must be protected from exposure to the latest youth fad coz we can't handle it is, IMO, not "considerant" - it's condescending AF.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

If she is this concerned about clothing at this stage, she's possibly seen as female by, well, just about everyone. Let alone senile grandpa there.

Just want to point out that the account that you yourself posted says very clearly that the grandpa in this case is "of sound mind." Being senile doesn't necessarily go hand in hand with being old enough to be a grandparent. Whilst dementia is a serious problem amongst the elderly, it only affects 13-14% of people over 70. Lots of old people have their wits about them. Many are sharp as tacks.

[–]WrongToy[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Of course you're right. However, the TIF claims that the TIF is being asked to caregive (she really isn't if you read the comment) to a board of mostly grown-ass and tired adults getting together to talk about things like...Hoyer lifts. Catheter care. Incontinence.

She obviously can't handle any of it, and she's obviously itching for the next family fight so she can go cry to reddit. Which she should have already as opposed to bothering responsible people trying to actually, um, help the senior.

[–]MarkTwainiac 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't understand how your reply in any way relates to point I made in the post you were responding to. I was objecting to you characterizing the old man being prejudged by his grand daughter as "senile grandpa." The TIF says in her OP that he's "of sound mind," and in the comments she added,

Both my grandparents are mentally sound, handle their own finances, have home health aides, and make their own medical decisions and doctor's appointments.

Her claims that she is being asked to be a caregiver for her grandfather have nothing whatsoever to do with your decision to call him senile. What's up with that? To me, it seemed like straight-up ageism.

As to the rest of your reply: my impression of the comments is that most of people who replied to the TIF were genuinely trying to help her out as much as they were "trying to actually, um, help the senior" in the situation.

BTW, I noted that she specifically said it was her father who expected her to be a caregiver. Assuming for a second that this indeed is true, a big assumption I know, the first question that popped into my head was: does the TIF have any brothers, and if so, does the father have the same expectation of his sons?

I wonder if a central underlying issue not being addressed by the TIF's preoccupation with superficialities and her projections onto her grandpa is a resentful awareness that the burden of caregiving in families tends to get placed on the female members - and that unmarried girls & women without children of their own often get particularly taken advantage of by their families in this regard. On top of this, I suspect that given how sexist, misogynistic and in thrall to regressive, narrow sex stereotypes this TIF revealed herself to be in her OP and other comments, she is chafing at the idea that anyone might see her as a potential "caregiver." My hunch is that she disdains being a caregiver and being thought of as a caregiver equally because she sees caregiving as a woman's role, and she is horrified that anyone would associate her with the sex class she sees as lowly and yucky. After all, she made it clear that since she wears neckties and isn't into cooking, she can't possibly be a woman herself, LOL.

[–]WrongToy[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If gramps is of sound mind, the minute this TIF tries to go all Julia Serano/Riley Dennis theology around him, he should just say, that's it. For Thanksgiving Dinner, we all talk about how the Lions and Dallas are doing. Or the weather. The books you are reading. Your job. Your vacation.

I ain't senile in no way (not yet) but I wouldn't put up with the TIF for one hot minute.