Historical use of the word "lesbian"

submitted by RedditHatesLesbians from self.Lesbians

Recently I've come across people making the argument that lesbian has, historically, been used to describe any woman who is sexually attracted to women, even if she's also attracted to men, and that the meaning has only changed to be more exclusionary in the last century. And that the reason it has changed is because TERFS want to exclude people for whatever reason. As a result, because historically bisexual women have been welcomed into lesbian spaces they can use the word too because of this argument. Sappho being called a lesbian is apparently bi erasure in modern times because she had male lovers.

Is this actually true? Every actual definition of lesbian I've been able to find is homosexual female. And even if the historical context is this, what word are women exclusively attracted to women supposed to use to identify each other and make it clear they're not interested in men?

This is the reddit thread where I found this argument: https://www.reddit.com/r/SapphoAndHerFriend/comments/htrgl3/friendly_reminder_for_what_the_sub_it_about/fyji4x8?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

I used to love this sub for historical context on lesbianism through time but it's starting to become more and more annoying to look through.

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[–]a_blue_bird 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Given that the concept of sexual orientation is relatively new, I doubt that ''lesbian'' was originally meant to refer to homosexual women exclusively. It was probably used to describe any woman who had been seriously involved with other women. But I think that this has changed completely. We could make a survey in random cities, asking people if ''bisexual woman'' means the same as ''a lesbian'' and I grant you that 99% would say no, it means different things. Queers just want to melt everything together in their melting pot. The rest of society likes to have different words for different things, so that communication is possible. Ironic how queers claim that ''language evolves'', but refuse to respect the fact of the language changing when it does not suit them.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I could walk out my door and say “what is the word used to describe women who sleep with women and men” to 100 random strangers and I would bet my lesbian ass that the word they are going to almost unanimously agree on is “bisexual” with a side of “pansexual.”

[–]VioletRemi 7 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

And word "queer" itself is just like that. When I read review about one lesbian game, it was always said "queer game about queer people". And I had no idea - is it about gay men, bisexuals, non-binary, transsexuals, lesbian women? They never specified (and obviously it was lesbian game, why else they would try to not name about exactly who it was?) and this "queer people" just had no meaning and was explainng nothing. It is almost like say "this game is about something, and you can play it". Very informative.

I think I saw somewhere this melting all words together in one word that means nothing. Ah yes, it was in "1984".

[–]Gearbeta 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm no historian so grain of salt etc, but the research I've done says that while the terms homosexual and lesbians don't explicitly say no attraction to the opposite sex it's pretty clear from the context of how society was back then and how the terms are used that they weren't referring to women capable of being in happy meaningful relationships with men. Most of the time it was used in reference to same sex attraction between women or as the female equivalent of a sodomite. So literally, lesbian meant same sex attraction between females or female who have sex with other females. So a bisexual could be said to have homosexual/lesbian and heterosexual attraction. And also remember that society was different so anyone who was risking having a homosexual relationship back in those days was likely incapable of sexual attraction to the opposite sex because if they were they would simply find a man.

[–]censorshipment 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

any woman who is sexually attracted to women, even if she's also attracted to men

So bisexual women are both bisexual and lesbian whereas homosexual women are just lesbian? I can see how that would make sense (historically and culturally) when being exclusively attracted to women was believed to be rare or nonexistent. But now bisexual women who prefer women partners only are called febfems, not lesbians. What is their problem with that?

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Bisexual women are not bisexual and lesbian. They are bisexual. The words lesbian and bisexual describe different things, but I think maybe back then they didn’t have evidence of women who were full lez because it was a no-no, and almost impossible.

I think febfem is bi women who choose to only date women

Edit: I just repeated your whole comment. Sorry. I thought you were agreeing with bi women being lesbian and bi hahahahaha. I’m an idiot.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Fuck that. We know what it means. Don’t let these “but it MEAAAAANS maybe dicks too” semantics get you down. Our bodies know exactly what it means and no amount of word-battle bullshit affects that in reality.

[–]Fraeulein 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Bi women seem to get really up in arms with things that are meant to be exclusively for homosexual women. Who cares what "lesbian" referred to eons ago? When I say "lesbian" now, you know exactly what I am referring to. Meanings often change over time anyway.