Why would a lesbian have male friends?

submitted by Lesbian-LurKING from self.Lesbians

[removed]
all 24 comments
sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun

[–]Gearbeta 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

To answer your question, sometimes you just click better friendship wise with men. Most of my friends are men because I have hobbies that are dominated by men. The few women I met in my hobbies there, were either not interested in being friends with me or were not interested in the hobby because they were dragged there by someone else. I don't think being a lesbian means you shouldn't or can't have male friends.

[–]BonesReds 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm the same way. I have several female friends whom I love but all my hobbies are male-dominated so I've met plenty of awesome men through them.

For friendships, I don't really care about their sex, just if they're a good person or not.

[–]reluctant_commenter 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Most of my friends are men because I have hobbies that are dominated by men. The few women I met in my hobbies there, were either not interested in being friends with me or were not interested in the hobby because they were dragged there by someone else.

Yup, same here. I have heard some people criticize lesbians for that (not in such an exaggerated manner as this poster though, lol). But it is just how it ends up working out for me. I don't sit there and seek out men. Would love to see more women in some of my hobbies.

[–]a_blue_bird 7 insightful - 8 fun7 insightful - 7 fun8 insightful - 8 fun -  (1 child)

I just can't for the life of me imagine hanging out so "intimately" with a man and actually having anything to converse about...lol

A very intelligent statement. Yeah, I guess with most of them you really wouldn't be able to have a 5 hours long conversation about how worthless men are.

[–]oofreesouloo 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

5 minutes* by her own words 😂 you're being too generous 😂😂😂 Her words: "As a lesbian myself; I genuinely cannot imagine WHY you would even want to hang out with a straight man for more than a 5-minute mundane chat..." (as if being a lesbian has anything to do with having male friends or not LOL)

[–]piylot 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

This question is like "Why would any lesbian ever make friends with any straight man? Here's my opinion on why I my friend does it. Don't answer anything that disagrees with my point of view."

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Right? OP with this narrow mindset you're just going to get an echo chamber. Men are a little less than half the population. It's likely that you'll become friendly with at least one, even though most of them are casually sexist in some ways.

To me it sounds like your fem friend just isn't picking up on the creepy vibes many men are give out which is common with all women up until a certain point in our lives. I remember not registering a lot of interactions from men as inappropriate/traumatic until I gained more experience navigating the world and talking to other women. My lack of interest in men compounded how much mistreatment I missed. It's very stomach churning realization.

I think you've projected a lot of your personal values and beliefs onto what the ~universal lesbian experience~ is like. I know it's not what you want to hear but not every lesbian feels the way you do, OP. In some ways I wonder if you're not accidentally overreacting in your protectiveness and that's why your friend becomes uncomfortable when you try to talk to her about it.

[–]reluctant_commenter 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh, boy.

I don't know if I have the energy to respond to all this right now. But the short answer is:

  • I believe all humans have equal value. That includes men.

  • My being a lesbian does not preclude me from the possibility of having friendships with anyone, including men.

  • All humans have the potential to have warm, caring, authentic emotional connections; some are merely better at fostering such connections than others. (I have had better luck with women in this regard, on average, as I am sure many here have.)

I am thus comfortable with being friends with men (some men, not the ones who disrespect my boundaries).

to me it is beyond weird that any lesbian really, would befriend a degenerate being that fetishizes and disrespects her (which many of these males HAVE already done to her but she brushes it off).

I believe there are no degenerate beings, only degenerate acts. And men do not have a monopoly on degenerate acts, even if they do them more often than women. I have had some horrible things done to me by women as well as men; and I still am interested in building connections with both.

My friend is very innocent and candid and I do think these qualities downright attract sadistic/narcissistic sociopathic/psychopathic beings

It sounds like she may have issues with boundaries, if this is the case. If you want resources on that, I can give you some links. (But, to be clear, this is not a male-specific problem.)

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

I have a good amount of male friends, so does my wife. However we will not tolerate disrespectful actions and are very selective of who we do interact with, male or female. One of my closest friends for the last 18 years is a man, he’s basically my honorary brother. It probably helps that they all know I am fully capable of castrating large farm animals in about 30 seconds.

[–]reluctant_commenter 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Also:

She often engages in one-on-one almost "date-like" activities with these men and she, being the lesbian she is, does not see anything off with that

Out of curiosity-- why don't you trust her to decide what she is comfortable with? If she knows she is a lesbian then she knows it is not a date.

[–]VioletRemi 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Why would a lesbian have male friends?

And why non-lesbian woman would have female friends?

Friends are friends, not lovers.

[–]reluctant_commenter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

/thread

[–]oofreesouloo 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[–]yayblueberries 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Needs more info on the specifics of these guys and whether you just don't like them because they are degenerates because they are XYs or whether they actually do rapey shit all the time. Your tl;dr post isn't very helpful because it's all about you you you and your pink-pilled views on men. I am pink-pilled on men too but you sound like you're pretty judgmental of your friend. If these guys really are this shit, and she keeps actually putting herself in harm's way because her boundary level is broken, that's going to take years to fix and she might need a therapist. Or you can find her good books on boundaries and radical feminism, because trying to push the average woman who was been socialized the way we are into suddenly not having any male friends is, honestly, pretty rude.

And maybe she just gets something out of the attention. Maybe it's not harmful at all even if it looks like it on the surface. She is going through a massive transformation in her life where she is coming to terms with being a lesbian. She really doesn't need a fellow lesbian friend side-eyeing her through the whole thing, these things can be painful, scary, and lonely at times. Those male friendships can be a source of comfort for her at times now, where in the future maybe she ends up pink-pilled and disinterested in centering men in her life anymore.

[–]LeaveAmsgAfterBeep 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think people are unable to distinguish your personal distaste for interacting with men from your concern for your friend who is hanging out with men who sound like they’re possibly the fetishy/exploitative type. To be fair, I read this as tongue in cheek somewhat but I do get either way. Some women feel bad having boundaries, that’s basically the bottom line- they feel guilty for questioning motives and it takes time to develop the strength and ability to do that, even with female friends too. I have met men who fit into a wide variety of ok people to shitty assholes, and seen friends in the past have as well. One would let a guy pull her into his lap despite being a lesbian, because “he’s my only friend” as if that makes it okay that he was touching her in a way she didn’t want among a variety of other things. She wouldn’t stop being friends with him no matter how many people told her she didn’t need to put herself through that, I’m no longer friends with that woman because she was also an asshole (maybe that was why they hung out), but drama aside- low self esteem, problems with drawing boundaries, no sense of self preservation, history of abuse, and mental illness can all be part of the reason why anyone lets people that don’t treat them well into their social circles and lets them go unchecked. I know I did when I was young and it took years to overcome it. Denial can go far too, “its just a joke”. I’ve known straight women to let gay men grab their tits in public and frankly at this point I’m a bit repulsed by not only what humans will put others through but also by what they will encourage. It’s also possible your friend is naïve or has a bad sense of humor too- been that young lesbian in my past too, only to freak at at some point when I realized what I had let myself be vulnerable to but thankfully I also had a decent enough male acquaintance that I wasn’t harmed. And I had a shitty sense of humor partially from what media I grew up with and what people I knew were like and you just sort of think that’s okay until you take responsibility and start thinking and questioning stuff a little.

[–]Lesbian-LurKING[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Hello all,

I cannot respond to every single one of you, unfortunuately, so I will reply like this instead (apologies if it isn't optimal). I would first truly like to extend my thanks and gratitude to the very insightful and reassuring responses that were sent 💜. There was care and comfort in your words 🌹.

Indeed, this post IS about ME, because I do trust my friend to work this out on her own at her own pace, with her own strength, insight and power. I needed reassurance more than anything. I have no community where I am and my heart has been broken many times. It is hard to open up and trust.😥

That being said, I do perceive that there is quite a bit of toxicity in the thread and some people have been a tad judgemental about my person (categorizing me as this or that only reflects your own state of being/mind, which is fine but not really helpful). On top of my not being able to have a free flow of expression (using words to express myself is very difficult), posting on the internet has always been a great source of anxiety to me. People take things way too personal and in doing so you are just shooing away other people who want somewhere to belong to. If I may gently underline how not exactly helpful nor respectful it is to do so. But nonetheless, thank you for your perspective. I did not mean to offend women who have male friends (as I myself very carefully and selectively will allow certain men into my circle), and obviously some women were more mature about understanding this (thank you, you have no idea how much of a breath of fresh air you are 🙂💜 or maybe you do haha). I apologize if I have hurt some people or bruised anyone's ego. Not my intention whatsoever. I do acknowledge that my words are often perceived as very harsh and charged when it is not my intention at all, and I am working on that.

We can observe males without being delusional about females. We can observe males whilst having male friends whom we care about (I myself do). We can observe males without being overtaken by hatred and disgust. We can observe males without taking everything personal and projecting our delusions unto others. We can observe males whilst being level-headed and compassionate. There is no need to delusion ourselves further into duality. I do align with and really appreciate he statement "there are no degenerate beings only degenerate acts" (beautiful by the way 🌹), I was simply stating things from a human perspective, as is common courtesy on Earth, as a human being 🙃. Most males I have encountered have been such and such, so I am obviously inclined to generalize. This says nothing about women. I do not conceive of Humanity as two seperate sex-based entities. We are one here and this is the world WE have created, like it or not. In fact, I am just as extremely selective of letting women into my circle aswell. It's just generally less likely for a woman to ooze out rapey pedo vibes (although, they definitely exist).

I find the comments about women as a whole not being as wary of men due to socialization very helpful. It is true that we do tend to feel uncomfortable setting up boundaries (especially young women, which my friend and I are, and I have failed to mention). I understand that it does take experience, maturity, strength and self-love to recognize these patterns and consciously set up healthy boundaries. Still a work in progress for myself aswell. 🙂 It is just very reassuring to know this from more experienced/mature lesbians, whom simply do not exist in my life right now.

A lot of the things some of you have mentioned seem to correspond to my friend's current state of mind/being. Whatwith the whole feeling guilty/uneasy about even considering that a man may or may not have perverted/rapey intentions. Feeling afraid of being seen as a manhater, feeling afraid/guilty about having to treat half of the planet differently simply because of their sex, feeling unrelatable to/rejected by former female friends/women as a whole. I think we all go through this to some degree; I definitely recognize it in myself. It does seem also that my friend finds comfort in keeping some men around (notably the ones she has known for years and has, according to her, not acted creepy towards her), and I can understand and respect this aswell.

Usually, I do tend to give her the space she needs, but lately with the harassment I have been feeling more protective than usual. I have "suspected" her of perhaps being bisexual, which I tried to bring up, but she denied it (without going into much detail about this). The perverted men have started appearing more so as she is "establishing" herself deeper as a lesbian, which is a very normal thing that occurs in life.

Nonetheless, it is one thing to have male friends whom you have known for years and another thing to not have any instinct of self-preservation (if I may borrow this excellent expression) and no sense of boundaries about letting random obviously creepy males into your life. This was mostly the subject of my inquiry and the source of my worry/anxiety. Apologies if it was not clear. But thankfully, some women here had the intelligence and foresight to understand this despite my rather pathetic attempt at self-expression.

This post was not about opinions, emotions, politics, movements or coloured-pills, it was about sharing insightful information and experience. Granted, I have been feeling a bit of distress and worry, I do feel better now.

I feel reassured. I realize that I am still rough on the edges, assuredly, but I did need to read with my own two seeing organs how common an experience this might be for/from all kinds of lesbians. 🙂 Thank you for that 🌹

I would like to personally thank everyone, but I don't know how to link usernames, so gratitude to anyone who was able to get out their ass (pardon me the saying, it is in good fun 🤣) and understand enough of my gibberish to share their experience and offer their wisdom ahaha. 💜 You are a delight 🌹☀️

I am grateful that you took the time and energy to respond to me and reassure me.🙂 Thank you also for opening up to me when I have issues doing the same, and for sharing vulnerable/difficult aspects of your life with us. 💜☀️ Some comments made me laugh aswell, thank you, I trust you know who you are. 🤣🤣

Love and Blessings to All. May we find contentment in the simplicity of the Self, open our hearts and extend compassion to all aspects of ourselves and others to grow beyond our delusions. ☀️🙏🏼

[I am very satisfied with the answers and we may close the topic if so wished.🌹]

EDIT: More thanks 🐣 + attempt at clarity 🙃

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

And I thought I write a lot of text. Lol.

Since you seem generally satisfied with having received help, I'll just respond to these.

I do align with and really appreciate he statement "there are no degenerate beings only degenerate acts" (beautiful by the way 🌹),

Thanks, I am glad you agree with this sentiment. I think it is an important foundation for having not only compassion towards other people-- but towards one's self.

it is one thing to have male friends whom you have known for years and another thing to not have any instinct of self-preservation (if I may borrow this excellent expression) and no sense of boundaries about letting random obviously creepy males into your life.

From the perspective of some of my friends-- I am this person. I can't speak to why your friend is this way. All I can say is, I did indeed let some very narcissistic, and some very creepy, men into my life-- and I eventually learned to trust myself enough, to know that it was okay to actually kick them out. If this is what is going on with your friend, she's got to learn to trust herself, and accept herself. And it may be painful as an observer on the sidelines to watch someone you care about not trust themself-- but quite frankly, there is no real replacement for acceptance that comes from within. That kind of acceptance is more of something one has to practice and get used to over time.

Best of luck.

[–]Lesbian-LurKING[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thank you for reading me and for sharing your experience with me. It means evermore considering how much I write. I think I write so ridiculously much to compensate for my inability to properly express myself...and I still manage to offend so many people regardless...so maybe I really should learn to be concise.

I resonate with everything you said, I think we would get along perfectly 🙃! I'm really not as harsh as my words make me out to be. I'm very grateful for your insight and the insight of some women on here; the different perspectives are so fascinating to me and really make me open my horizons.

I myself have issues with setting up healthy boundaries (maybe in a different way as I usually tend to shut down and run away), so it means a lot to me that you share this with us. It was genuinely my impression that most lesbians on here would not keep that many male friends as a general experience. But then I realized it is because I have a completely different definition of friendship that most people. This has caused a lot of confusion. Yet at the same time, coming to this realization of my definition being divergent from most really helps me put everything into perspective.

It is obvious from your words that you have done a lot of work on yourself, and that is very inspiring, thank you for your kind words. ☀️🙏🏼 It was really what I needed to hear/read. Tremendously helpful. I was myself slowly coming to the same conclusion, but I was still unsure of myself. There is always more improvement to be achieved in the whole self-trust/confidence area. The work of a lifetime really. And meeting people like you is very encouraging.🌹

I will stand by my beloved friend's side no matter what and be a beacon of strength, acceptance, love and confidence in her life. 💜

Many blessings 🌹☀️ (also, I love your username...quite relatable 🤣)

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think I write so ridiculously much to compensate for my inability to properly express myself

That is an astute observation. It is a very common struggle though, to be fair :) I know I struggle with it sometimes.

It was genuinely my impression that most lesbians on here would not keep that many male friends as a general experience

Nah, it just depends on the lesbian in question. Or so I have discovered in my time here. If you look at some of the older threads, you might find more discussion on this topic-- someone posted recently "Anyone else find it really hard to relate to men?" You might find that thread interesting or useful to read.

I have indeed done a lot of work on myself, and am aware that I still have a lot to do haha. The universal struggle I guess, though, lol. I'm glad I and others were able to help you :) You seem like a very caring friend.

If you want to post more in this forum, please feel free to! Sometimes people disagree, but I've found most to be okay with discussion even if they disagree with me.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[removed]

    [–]Lesbian-LurKING[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    It's a "jeu de mots" with the verb "lurking" 🙃! Technically, the title of "King" is gender-neutral and it simply means "monarch", not necessarily male, but man is the default I guess? There have been a few women Kings throughout history (notably in Egypt and Europe) that insisted on being titled "King".

    Kings do not serve exactly the same roles as Queens. They are different archetypes. I believe the main reason we associate "King" with men is because women were obviously not allowed to be the ruler regnant (safe under certain conditions). Kings were always above Queens (unless the Queen was Queen Regnant, ex.: Elizabeth II could be called a King but she obviously uses the feminine version Queen). Queen is thus more so associated with femininity (which is not my personal aesthetics). The word "King" also has the word "kin" in it, which I think is cute. Plus "King" is more badass and warriorlike * ^ *! And finally, men should not and cannot be kings ahaha. We reclaim our power. It's nothing serious, take it with a grain of salt . 3 . 🌹☀️🙃🙃

    [–]lurkergirl 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Are you sure she doesn't see the treatment? A lot of bi "lesbians" could've fit into this portrait you make of her.

    [–]votkriscan 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Your post is a little odd, because if I'm taking what you say at face value it sounds like your friend isn't gay. And that is something you should have picked up on, considering how much you value these things.

    For one, these "male friends" of her's do not sound like the kind of trusted friends that you know for years. If it had been, that might even have predated your own friendship with her, which means you would have mentioned them being longtime-friends in the first place. This sounds more like random male acquaintances who she is all too happy to allow into her personal space and even welcome flirting with her. And it seems that she desires to feel popular amongst groups of straight men.

    I don't know any real lesbians with healthy mindsets desiring to be popular amongst groups of straight men. For example, in my current group of lesbian acquaintances, they do not have radfem beliefs. They don't even know what is that and naturally don't subscribe to it. However, they never had any roving group of straight male friends. In fact, they don't even seem to have any constant male friends at all. A lot of them are now attached with a girlfriend, so they currently don't even have that much time for full friendships as they are busy with their own life and their partners.

    Now it may be due to differences, but a lot of people where I am are peer-socialized to be platonic friends with their own gender and date/be romantically involved with the opposite sex. What this means is that straight women will have her own group of female friends and you will see that cozy picture of her and her boyfriend together. For lesbians, it's the same, but with a girlfriend instead of a boyfriend. In fact, for a lot of the pretty femme lesbians, when they post group pictures, majority of the time it's exclusively with female friends or a mixed group of women and men. I don't usually see a lot of one on one pictures with male friends or she being the only female with a big group of males. In fairness, they are higher femmes with largely feminine interests with the exception of some things like gaming. Even then, they game with other women half of the time. If your friend has more masculine interests, that might explain her male friends.

    On the healthy mindset, I think some lesbians do suffer from internalized homophobia and internalized misogyny. For example, some lesbians may internalize being a lesbian as "man-hating" and thus may feel they should compensate and be a bit more friendly to men to prove that they are not "man-haters". There are some types of women who have the strange mindset of girls being "icky" and/or find it a badge of honor to hang in a boy's club and be considered one of the boys.

    I personally don't buy the innocence or the low-self esteem unless she is very young. These situations aren't even rocket science or difficult ones to navigate. I grew up in a conservative environment and had my share of emotional burdens, but I knew what I was doing. I consider a difficult situation something like a woman trapped in an abusive/dangerous environment and having to strategize carefully, do a lot of pretending and even need to secure financial aid to leave her circumstances. I fail how to see in a generally free/safe situation, one could be "tricked" into unwanted advances.

    And her "hetero" past raises a bit of a red flag. Perhaps she is actually newly bisexual, and you interpreted her as lesbian? If she is bisexual, it's will be normal for her to want male attention for dating.