Experiences of Lesbian Erasure and Lesbian Invisibility

submitted by Skipdip from self.Lesbians

Hello s/lesbians!

I am feeling let down, as many of us are, by the erasure of lesbianism as female homosexuality. Sometimes these people even have me questioning it.

I would like to create a master thread, collection of lesbians stories with lesbian erasure, particularly in this modern “queer” phenomenon. Please share any and all. If this already exists I apologize for the repost. I couldn’t find anything similar from using the search function though.

all 31 comments
sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun

[–]reluctant_commenter 31 insightful - 1 fun31 insightful - 0 fun32 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Categorized by flavor...

Bisexuality

  • "Everyone is bisexual."

  • "Everyone is at least a little bit bisexual."

  • "All women are bisexual."

  • "How do you know you'll never meet one guy that 'does it' for you?"

  • "Women's sexuality is fluid."

Trans-isms

  • " 'Genital preference' is transphobic."

  • "Isn't it closed-minded to be exclusionary?"

  • "There is no difference between a penis and a clitoris."

  • "You are a prude if you don't like dick."

  • "You are an over-sexualized fetishist if you like vaginas specifically."

The Nature of Sex

  • "Lesbian sex doesn't exist."

  • "Lesbians don't even have sex."

  • "How do you have sex without a dick?"

  • [If you have never had sex with men] "If you've never tried it, how do you know you don't like it?"

  • [If you've tried sex with men] "How do you know you didn't like it?" (literal outright gaslighting..)

These are just a few I've thought of and heard, I'll update with more as I remember more. Makes my blood boil.

Fantastic post, thank you.

[–]CJLez 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Trans-isms

I would also add 'you don't have to use/touch/see the dick when you have sex' and 'there is no difference between a neo-vaginia and a natal-vagina' to that list.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I love this!

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thanks :)

[–]FlanJam 23 insightful - 3 fun23 insightful - 2 fun24 insightful - 3 fun -  (18 children)

The recent "bi lesbian" thing comes to mind. It still baffles me how anyone can believe in something so stupid. And those people are always claiming "lesbian" historically included bi women and so lesbian is actually an umbrella term... I don't think I need to explain everything wrong with that lol.

Another thing that really gets me is when people absolutely refuse to use the word lesbian. I've seen multiple articles that intentionally replaced the word "lesbian" with "queer". For example there was a website that interviewed a lesbian author about her new book, and every time she said lesbian they replaced it with queer. She rightfully was upset about it but I don't remember if they ever fixed it unfortunately.

[–][deleted] 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

They did something similar to the director of Portrait of a Lady on Fire, Céline Sciamma. She commented about how whenever she used the word lesbian they tried to replace it with the word queer. I've noticed this trend in mainstream media too. It's always queer, queer, queer, and never lesbian. Sometimes I've seen people call one person LGBT+. Really? This one person is the whole acronym?

I hate the way language is being used to invisibilize lesbians and take away our culture.

[–]CJLez 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The most heartbreaking version of this was when the three gay men were murdered in Reading and Stonewall had the fucking gall to call them 'LGBT.'

[–]FlanJam 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Oh yeah, I remember that now. Isn't it like a breach of journalistic integrity to change someone's words like that? Idk anything about that stuff, but I feel like it should be a big issue to change someone's words and pass it off as a quote they said.

I'm also reminded now of how a lot of lesbian artists call themselves queer of instead of lesbian. Tegan and Sara, King Princess, and Girl in Red come to mind. Now, labels are quite personal so I wouldn't dare say they need to call themselves lesbians. But its interesting how many women are averse to using "lesbian" as a label. Which is why I have a lot of respect for Hayley Kiyoko. She said she didn't like "lesbian" at first but now she wants to help normalize the word for others.

[–][deleted]  (6 children)

[deleted]

    [–]carrotcake 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    I cannot understand when a lesbian always calls herself "queer". It doesn't say anything about your sexual orientation, it can even be a gender descriptor. It feels like a deliberate choice to hide the fact that you're only same-sex attracted. I get it when it's someone that is discovering her sexuality and isn't sure yet or when it's used sometimes, but I can't understand why it would be your go to answer when describing your sexual orientation. I personally wouldn't use in any of those cases, but some of them I understand.

    [–]FlanJam 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Part of the reason might be because of how people are pushing ~fluidity~ and bisexuality as the coolest and most progressive sexuality. Lesbian is looked down on as stogy and close-minded. I've even seen think pieces about how we don't need "lesbian" anymore smh.

    I find it both ironic and sad that so many lesbians are averse to calling themselves lesbians, meanwhile a bunch of bi women are trying to "reclaim" lesbian for themselves.

    [–]spirette 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    if a lesbian calls herself "queer" then I know immediately that I have to avoid her at all costs, be it on a dating app or in real life. She's definitely an idiot and a coward. Pass.

    [–]FlanJam 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Yeah, I get what you mean. I don't "choose" the lesbian label, I don't "identify" as a lesbian, I just am a lesbian lol. I only use "label" because that's the language people tend to use.

    [–]spirette 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    Interesting. Was it an English interview? Or a French interview? I'm assuming an interview in English since "queer" is not super commonly used in France (except in LGBTwtf circles). But it's growing unfortunately. I don't think most French speakers even know that "queer" means "odd". But I suppose if they knew, they wouldn't mind because deep down, that's what they (the kweerspecials ie the straights) think of us: that we are weird.

    And yeah I hate that "oh she is LGBTQ+" Like, no she isn't all these random letters put together, she is L.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    I remember the article with the interview being written in English but it's possible that it was translated from French. I'm almost one hundred percent certain it was originally in English though.

    [–]Innisfree 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Here's the relevant bit .

    And here's the full interview .

    Thanks for mentioning it - was nice to revisit her thoughts.

    [–]spirette 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    thanks! :)

    [–]lovelyspearmint 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Took a bit of digging, but this is what you're talking about?

    https://www.rogerebert.com/interviews/love-dialogue-c%C3%A9line-sciamma-on-portrait-of-a-lady-on-fire

    Pretty much every review of the movie talks about how the movie is queer or is about queer love, as if lesbian is an insult.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    This is it! Thank you for the detective work.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Maybe it's because they're not Lesbians.

    [–]FlanJam 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    King Princess is kinda hard to read, but I'm pretty darn confident the other three are lesbians. If not, I'll eat my hat lol

    [–][deleted]  (5 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]TalerTest 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      I wanted to comment something about how disgusting that is, but there's really no words.

      [–]VioletRemi 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Product of the modern age. As disgusting as the age itself.

      [–]yousaythosethings 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      When people ask "what's the harm?" in allowing men to identify as lesbians, and "why does it bother you so much?" I'm going to direct them to this comment. Because this is the natural consequence. And then they start dividing "lesbians" into "good lesbians" (read: not lesbians) and "bad lesbians" who are "bigoted" and "prejudiced" against penis in our sex and romantic lives.

      [–][deleted] 15 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

      I had a close “pansexual,” polyamorous friend who said “I don’t believe in homosexuality” to my face, apropos to nothing. It is very annoying when people who don’t experience our orientation take that as reason to believe it cannot possibly be real.

      [–]FlanJam 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Crazy how they sound just like classic homophobes.

      [–]oofreesouloo 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      And this is people coming from OUR community 😐

      [–]Skipdip[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      It hurts me too

      [–]yayblueberries 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      It is becoming subtle, but the whole push back against preferences being bigoted and now racist is very dangerous to us lesbians. It is implying that sexual preferences are wrong and can and should be changed.

      [–]VioletRemi 22 insightful - 3 fun22 insightful - 2 fun23 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

      Worst part is that it even called preferences at all. I am not prefering women over men, I just don't love men in any sexual or romantic way. That is it. If it was just preference, my life would be sooooo much easier in my childhood, teen and young adult years.

      [–]Gearbeta 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      I'd like to add the argument many TRAs make about inclusiveness. While not strictly a lesbian thing I think this affects us because it seems that in recent times the very concept of having an exclusive group is wrong or bigoted, even if it makes perfect sense to do so. TRAs want to call us cis and then say "well your women's group didn't explicitly say only cis women so I can come in as a transwoman!" but then forbid us from making a group for cis women because thats exclusive! That's bad! And then they protest against those groups for being "bigoted" because apparently now all exclusive groups are bigoted.

      Other arguments I've seen, people claiming you don't need to use your genitals to have sex, people asking you to be in a sexless relationship for the sake of transwomen, people saying that women inherently don't enjoy sex with/are attracted to men (bonus points if its a man saying this and he then follows up with "well no woman I've been with has ever enjoyed sex"), historical revisionist arguments (Sappho was bi, bis were always considered lesbians, etc etc)

      [–]lmaonope333 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      I'm a butch lesbian. I once walked into a queer bookstore and incidentally a nonbinary meetup was going on. The people invited me to sit down and join the meetup, without asking me whether or not I actually identify as nonbinary