Lesbians that don't call themselves lesbians

submitted by carrotcake from self.Lesbians

(Edit before you read: forget about the Kirsten thing, she's probably bi by what people are saying. I just didn't know a lot about her and people around me said she was a lesbian. I didn't delete the post bc it raised discussion so that's the point.)

I just found out that Kirsten Stewart doesn't call herself a lesbian. She's said she doesn't identify neither with lesbian nor bisexual and doesn't like labels. She's only dated woman since Robert Pattinson though. I know it's probably really old news, but I'm not so versed in famous people's lives so I'm usually late, sorry about that. But my point is: why do lesbians seem to do that way more than B and G? Probably it has something to do with misogyny as usual. It's saddening honestly. It's not about liking labels, it's about making people know that being a lesbian is normal and ok. Famous people have, more than we do, the voice to do that and I understand when they choose to be on the closet but when they are out and just don't say they are lesbians it's a little infuriating lol

I'm young and by no means a late bloomer but it still took me so long to accept that I only love woman... If only other lesbians felt alright calling themselves lesbians, maybe this would be less common. Maybe our coming out age wouldn't be higher than gay men and bi people. Maybe so many of us wouldn't at first think we must be bi. Maybe "labels" are important and we should proudly say we are lesbians.

That's what's crossed my mind. We were having a discussion in here about lesbians calling themselves queer so I remembered that and thought maybe you guys had something to say.

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[–][deleted]  (10 children)

[deleted]

    [–][deleted] 34 insightful - 4 fun34 insightful - 3 fun35 insightful - 4 fun -  (3 children)

    Agreed. Do these "I don't like labels" people think we call ourselves lesbians because we just LOOOVE labels? Umm no. We use it to communicate the message that we are women who exclusively want women. It's almost like they don't know what words are for.

    [–]spirette 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    yeah labels are used by everybody to describe things. notice these "no labels" women don't have a problem saying they're tall/short/have blue eyes/are British/Italian/introvert

    It's only when it's about being CLEAR about your attraction that they suddenly become uncomfortable with labels. Anyway, they tend to be bisexuals: may sleep with a woman, only date men. Meh.

    [–][deleted] 11 insightful - 12 fun11 insightful - 11 fun12 insightful - 12 fun -  (1 child)

    “I don’t HAVE a sock drawer. I don’t like to label my drawers. I find it so limiting.”

    Lol. How do these people make sense of life?

    [–]spirette 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I know right ;)

    [–]zephyranthes 15 insightful - 11 fun15 insightful - 10 fun16 insightful - 11 fun -  (0 children)

    They don't like labels, they looooooooooove labels. Gotta catch them all. "gray-asexual genderqueer panromantic otherkin faegender nonbinary lesbian demiboy". Some pretend to have multiple split personalities* when the main one is overflowing with sparklepoo.

    • no such thing as a real split personality

    [–][deleted] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    It’s like saying “I like having sex with all types of people.” If that is not actually true then a label is important.

    [–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    I say that to people if they don't need to know. I just feel like my sexuality is private and I don't see why I need to tell people unless I'm dating them or something.

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Yeah I should just tell people it's none of the business but I feel a bit rude doing that.

      [–]carrotcake[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Exactly!!

      [–][deleted] 25 insightful - 7 fun25 insightful - 6 fun26 insightful - 7 fun -  (3 children)

      If she doesn’t like labels she’s probably bi. That’s the most bi or queer thing to say.

      [–]carrotcake[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

      Yes from what people are saying I'm guess she's probably bi. Just edited the post to don't delete it.

      [–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      She’s is our most favourite bi. I love her

      And Evan Rachel wood

      [–]carrotcake[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Yes! I don't know a lot about her but from the few interviews I have seen she's awesome!

      [–]Poppy29252 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

      I always see the excuse "It feels so dirty and sexual" and all I think is "So you perpetuate that connotation by not using it?"

      Women are sexualized beyond belief, none of us are new to that, yet we still call ourselves women. I'm not going to let others define or undefine me just because they are garbage people.

      [–]lxit09 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      It took me a long time to get comfortable with calling myself a lesbian just because I'd always heard the word used to describe porn or something else pervy or dirty. It's super sad. Now I say it with pride, but it took a bit to overcome. Still, more lesbians aren't going to call themselves that until the rest of us 'normalise' it and help dissociate 'lesbian' from the gross associations it has had in mainstream culture.

      [–]CatsOrGoHome 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

      Unfortunately, the same people who think lesbian is a dirty word are the same people who usually like to call themselves non binary, so the woman example probably wouldn't make them see reason.

      [–][deleted] 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Non-binary is a much more offensive label than lesbian could ever hope to be. They seem to like the no-name brand of gender labels well enough, surely. Lol

      [–]Poppy29252 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      I mostly agree. I've seen the same excuse on this (TL) sub.

      [–]PopeyesChicken 17 insightful - 4 fun17 insightful - 3 fun18 insightful - 4 fun -  (3 children)

      Kristen always says she really loved Robert pattinson and wanted to marry him at one point. She doesn’t magically become gay just because she’s been dating women like she could even NEVER date a man in her LIFE and still be bisexual. Or even straight! Kristen likes men too even if she might prefer women

      How are some people on this sub going to notice that bi women falling themselves lesbians is a problem and then pull this bs lol

      [–]carrotcake[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

      I didn't know she said that. I just heard people telling she's a lesbian and saw she was dating only woman. Thought I could delete the post after people said that she was bi but the discussion stands without her as an example so I didn't delete it

      [–]FlanJam 14 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

      Don't beat yourself up, I thought she was lesbian too. I remember she called herself gay on SNL, and a lot of people assumed she meant GAY as in lesbian. This is why not using labels can get confusing, cuz no one knows what she means lmao

      [–]carrotcake[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Hahhahaha yes!

      [–]Lessom 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

      I wouldn’t say Kristen Stewart is a good example in this scenario as she dates the opposite sex.

      Having said that, I found lesbians don’t usually go the ‘no label‘ route but either identify as lesbian, gay or that offensive nonsense ‘queer’.

      Personally, I like the word lesbian as it’s the only word for homosexual females. I think it’s a shame many lesbians don’t like the word because of how it’s perceived by some people that don’t care about us anyways.

      [–]PopeyesChicken 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      It doesn’t matter who she dates even... if she likes dudes too, she is bi, not gay

      [–]carrotcake[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      100% agreed I'm sorry if I sounded like I thought female excluive bis were lesbians lol. I just didn't know that she liked guys and should've researched more :D

      [–]blackrainbow 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      St Vincent (Annie Clark) is a perfect example, she only dates women but she said she was "fluid" and doesn't believe in labels. She's only afraid to say "lesbian" out loud in my opinion

      [–]carrotcake[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      I like lesbian too, it's more descriptive. Recently it's been more and more lesbians calling themselves gay or queer, but I have seen some going the no labels route. I'm glad in my country gay and especially queer aren't used for homosexual females. And about Kirsten, yeah I didn't realize that maybe she's bi because I've heard she's a lesbian before and I looked it up and she only dated women after the first one

      [–]oofreesouloo 14 insightful - 5 fun14 insightful - 4 fun15 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

      I thought Kristen Stewart was bi?? Am I wrong? Sorry, I'm not very up to date, and I've never fancied her that much too (don't kill me lol)

      [–]carrotcake[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Lol I could be wrong too. People that I know have called her a leabian so after knowing that she doesn't like labels I searched and she only has dated women after breaking up with Pattinson so I figured she wasn't bi and dated guys before bc she thought she was straight. But I don't fancy her as well I was just sad bc I thought she was a lesbian

      Edit: if she's bi I'm sorry hahahah. I kinda hope she is so it's not one more lesbian to the list of not liking the word

      [–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      I thought she was bi too.

      [–]yayblueberries 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

      I disagree on the point that just because somebody is famous, doesn't mean they have some sort of obligation to live their lives in such a way as to be a role model/voice for others. If they are so uncomfortable with their sexuality that they cannot call themselves a lesbian then that is where they are at. They are humans too, with flaws, with pain, with past experiences that have forced them into being uncomfortable. I just find all discussions around people owing other people or entire groups special things very tiresome and part of the entitlement culture the U.S. has. Many people who are famous did not CHOOSE to be famous, on top of it all.

      [–][deleted] 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      I agree that no one needs to share their sexual orientation but I don't like the "I don't like labels" reason. A sexuality is not a label. They should just say mind your own business if they want to keep it private.

      [–]carrotcake[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      Yeah you're right. And I said that I think it's ok that someone famous isn't out, it just saddens me when she's out but she doesn't say that she's a lesbian. But that's ok too. As you said they're people with problems and internalized homophobia just like we are. It's just unfair that this happens in a systemic level. I guess more to lesbians than to other LGBT people. I probably phrased it like it was her problem but I agree with you.

      [–]SailorMoon2020 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (26 children)

      I prefer homosexual female/woman because lesbian never meant 'women exclusively attracted to women'. It was a word that was and still is defined as 'women who love/prefers women'. Upon reading numerous history books on lesbianism, I have yet to come across an era where the word was meant as what we ourselves are. Even Sappho was bisexual who preferred women.

      [–]spirette 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

      what? Lesbian absolutely means woman exclusively attracted to women. Don't confuse what men write and say with what the word actually means. Of course, men refuse to believe that women aren't attracted to them, that women could be solely attracted to women. Who cares what men think? They always try to control language.

      And no Sappho wasn't bisexual. Being married to a man was the norm. (Oscar Wilde was also married. Nobody claims Oscar Wilde was bisexual) Another lie cooked up by men. All her poems are only about loving women. let's not do this thing where we erase Sappho's sexuality, just like men and bihets have tried to do.

      I don't like the term "homosexual" because it was invented to pathologize same-sex attraction. I'll keep using "lesbian" thank you very much.

      [–]MyLongestJourney 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

      And no Sappho wasn't bisexual. Being married to a man was the norm. (Oscar Wilde was also married. Nobody claims Oscar Wilde was bisexual) Another lie cooked up by men. All her poems are only about loving women. let's not do this thing where we erase Sappho's sexuality, just like men and bihets have tried to do.

      We do not know if Sappho was homosexual,bisexual or even completely straight with a penchant for romantic friendships.Very few of her poems survive and she might have wrote passionate poems about men as well. What we do know is that she was well regarded and immensely popular many centuries after her death.Sadly most of her work is lost.

      [–]sootsprite 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

      Very few of her poems survive and she might have wrote passionate poems about men as well

      Imagine applying this logic to straight historical figures. "Yes all of the writings from him only indicate sexual attraction to women, BUT he MAY still have written sexy poems about other men that have never been discovered, so let's assume he's bisexual!!!"

      [–]MyLongestJourney 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

      Imagine applying this logic to straight historical figures. "Yes all of the writings from him only indicate sexual attraction to women, BUT he MAY still have written sexy poems about other men that have never been discovered, so let's assume he's bisexual!!!"

      You can apply this "logic" if you do not have sufficient evidence.Like in Sappho's case.

      [–]sootsprite 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

      If there are only romantic poems about women and none about men, there is nothing wrong with assuming attraction to women and none to men until something shows up that indicates otherwise. If it was the other way around she wouldn't be assumed to be bisexual.

      [–]MyLongestJourney 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

      Again we only have maybe a couple of her poems whole and fragments from few others.You can interpret it as you like,but I am more reserved.

      [–]SailorMoon2020 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

      1.) First of all, the word lesbian actually comes from the Greek Islands of Lesbos where she is born, as a slang term to describe female on female sexual and romantic relations. In fact, it wasnt even until the late 19 century where the word has the meaning it has now. I seriously doubt they(lesbian of lesbos) had any say in how their word is used in modern terms(especially since it's a heated debate of topic for the island to this day).

      2.) Yes, her poems were about women but a woman who engages in consentful sex with young male lovers is bisexual in my book.

      3.) You don't like the word homosexual but you're willing to use a word that was taken without consent from the natives for your own identity purposes? Como sea, if it helps you sleep at night.

      [–]MyLongestJourney 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

      First of all, the word lesbian actually comes from the Greek Islands of Lesbos where she is born, as a slang term to describe female on female sexual and romantic relations. In fact, it wasnt even until the late 19 century where the word has the meaning it has now. I seriously doubt they(lesbian of lesbos) had any say in how their word is used in modern terms(especially since it's a heated debate of topic for the island to this day).

      I am Greek.And you are correct.Inhabitants of the isle of Lesbos can not use the term lesbian anymore as an adjective of origin (and often avoid calling their island Lesbos they call it Mytilene,the name of their capital city instead),because it was hijacked by foreigners to denote a sexuality.They had no say on that and they are very angry about it.

      I use the term homosexual woman for myself,both for clarity and to give my compatriots a break.

      but a woman who engages in consentful sex with young male lovers is bisexual in my book.

      Source?

      [–]TalerTest 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

      a woman who engages in consentful sex with young male lovers

      Where did you read this?

      [–]SailorMoon2020 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

      Absolutely! Sapphictries: The Global History of Love Between Women by Leila J. Rupp. An extraordinary book and I highly recommend it!

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                  [–]oofreesouloo 13 insightful - 2 fun13 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

                  I had an incident where I rejected a man by telling him im a lesbian and not only did he continue to pursue me, he also told other guys who then began to pursue me

                  Aaaand this is exactly the reason why I hardly ever come out to a guy. It's even worse to tell them you're a lesbian, honestly. I also come out as homosexual too now, but still avoid coming out to guys, unless they're gay.

                  [–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

                  That has happened to me so many times.

                  [–]WildwoodFlower 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

                  I don't think there is a word that can stop some of these guys. If you say you're a lesbian/homosexual, then they think all you need is some dick-- his dick, of course-- and then you'll be straight. Pretending to be straight with a husband/boyfriend doesn't stop them, either, because they think their dick is better than the dick you already have. Sometimes telling them you have kids is a turnoff, but the guy could also be one of those pedos who goes after single moms in order to access their children. Or even if he's not a pedo, he might figure his dick will mean so much to you that you'll send the kids to live with their dad or their granny.

                  The one thing that does usually work is if you sound intelligent. Flaunt that grad school vocabulary, or at least learn how to do a good Hillary Clinton imitation.

                  [–]Climblikeabee 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

                  I actually relate to her so much in this situation, but I do use lesbian now because fuck what other people think about me and my past.

                  I wrote extensively on reddit about my experiences (before the banning), but the basic gist is I dated a few guys who pursued me who were all very sweet good friends of mine, and after a couple months of dating each of them I felt nauseous and disgusted by them and like I would rather die than spend another intimate moment with them. I already knew I was into women but I hadn't fallen for anyone and was still in denial. I have a daughter so my past dating life clearly includes at least one man. Using the label of lesbian means being questioned by everyone on the "validity" of how it applies to me. I do call myself a lesbian because I am one, even if I didn't embrace and fully understand it until my early 20s. I did care deeply about the men I dated, they were good people, and I broke a lot of hearts. Calling myself a lesbian feels like dismissing those relationships in my past as meaningless. They did mean something to me, even if it wasn't love or even anything even close to resembling attraction.

                  Kind of a rant haha but you know. She might not want to deal with any of that bullshit. She could also be bi but personally I followed the same thought process as you.

                  [–]carrotcake[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

                  Oh man I feel you. I've only had one relationship with a man but he was nice and we still talk sometimes. I do think about what he'll think when he knows that I'm actually a lesbian and not bi. I don't want to make anyone feel bad.

                  [–]Climblikeabee 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

                  Yeah exactly! I did tell a few of them and they took it really well, but I do carry some weird guilt about it all. At the end of the day it felt good though.

                  [–]HelloMomo 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

                  Someone at one point decided these were labels rather than adjectives and everything went downhill from there

                  [–]Skipdip 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

                  My personal opinion is that regardless of its history the definition of lesbian is “homosexual female”. These days with the genderists, I often say I am a homosexual female, because they are redefining lesbian to be about gender rather than sex. It’s true homosexual has a not beautiful past, and in fact neither does lesbian. But I blame society for giving us no label that honors us in a positive or at least neutral light. These are the words we have in English. I think it’s important to acknowledge their definitions now. I say lesbian because it is the colloquial form, and homosexual female when I am trying to be precise.

                  [–]yousaythosethings 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

                  I get the "I don't like labels" attitude from the late bloomer lesbian perspective. If you were married to a man and/or came out late, it can be jarring and confusing to people to refer to yourself as a lesbian when people assume you are straight by default. I'm also a very private person and this would invite a lot of invasive questioning, and the answers are not something most people can understand. So I'm not shouting "I'm a lesbian" from the rooftops or "coming out" as such to people who I'm not super close to and have no need to know. I let my behavior do the talking for me. I may say something like "I'm into women" if someone says something to me that is based on the presumption that I'm straight. But mostly people will figure it out over time, especially when it's clear that I have no male partners.

                  Edit: I don't say to people "I don't like labels." I just mean that I understand not wanting to use a label because of my personal experience.