all 22 comments

[–]gobl00 26 insightful - 3 fun26 insightful - 2 fun27 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Female’s cycle in a male’s world. The man married to her rapes and abuses her in a much more sophisticated manner than her green instincts can dissect. She is socialised into accepting it. She is told that her worth is tied to being a wife and a mother, she cannot refuse his advances under the guise of birthing his child and extending his legacy. When she has been gaslit to endure rape and motherhood throughout her life. And she is told she has a lived a “full” life.

[–]hunther 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

This is how Islam indoctrinates women into believing rape is acceptable for a woman to endure. And Moids have made our dissent is silenced by continuously raping us then telling us hell is populated with women cause they said no. XY's are truly disgusting in nature.

[–]fuckingsealions 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sorry, that sounds really hard. I knew it was always there, but I am very awake to women being part of their own oppression nowadays. I am shocked by what I hear women say. It's like men don't have to even think about it address it because we've pre-censored ourselves.

[–]Apricot_Ibex 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Ugh. That’s just really frustrating and stressful! It’s always a letdown when someone you care about and trust holds such regressive and damaging views. One of the main goals of most religions is to oppress women, and Islam has certainly honed that to a fine art over the centuries. Living for awhile in Saudi Arabia, I got to see it firsthand and to quite an extreme.

The extremist Bible thumpers aren’t far off on the marital rape issue. There are a lot of “joyfully submissive” Proverbs 31 women’s blogs gaslighting women into never saying no to their husband, even when they don’t feel well. These are the same people who believe women have almost no sex drive and “aren’t visual”, so they already think sex is mainly there for servicing men and procreating. 🤢

It’s hard for women anywhere to overcome this toxic socialization that starts at birth. I feel DONE too.

[–]K80L80 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Just curious if you could give us some stories from when you lived in Saudi Arabia?

[–]Apricot_Ibex 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Sure! :-) I lived in Riyadh as a tween in the 90s, so some things have changed. What was probably most jarring is that more “progressive” Saudi families would often live a completely different life inside of their homes vs. outside. We knew some very well educated women who had traveled widely, worked full time, etc., but they couldn’t even leave their home to be in public unescorted, drive, or leave the country without a male family member chaperone. Their passports were useless without a male. It seemed extremely infantilizing to me, even as a child. For many women in highly educated and less religious circles, their husbands really did want them to have more autonomy, but it was illegal. Women expressed a lot of frustration but there was nothing to be done. On the plus side, they were able to study and work, but not in all the fields they would have liked to work in.

There were plenty of men-only coffee shops and restaurants. We had a favorite restaurant my dad would have to bring home as takeout because it was men-only. My dad speaking Arabic helped so that we didn’t accidentally wander into some men-only space, but often there was also English and sometimes a symbol of a woman with a huge x over it.

Some things were kind of amusing to a kid but certainly extreme, like how authorities would black out the plastic windows on Barbie doll boxes with marker so you couldn’t see the dolls’ bodies, or how someone at customs censored innocuous photos of women in imported magazines with marker. They went through every single page of every material we brought with us and marked out all the women’s photos so that they were just disembodied heads. Traditional Saudi dolls are faceless for religious reasons. As a kid, those just looked cool to me, lol.

As obvious foreigners, we honestly got a very warm welcome, so I have some really fond memories, but life was more free for me, since I was prepubescent and going to international school. That was all privilege that Saudi women wouldn’t have as they were growing up, especially the ultimate privilege to just leave one day. My mom wore an abaya/black gown and headscarf in public (which was required, but many Saudi women went beyond that and completely covered their face or showed just their eyes, and wore black gloves, which is unbelievably hot in that climate. The modesty law was enforced by the religious police) my dad dressed in local attire (men’s clothes are white and flowy, super comfy), but I just had to wear elbow length shirts and long pants. We went to the beach in summertime, and of course it was blazing hot and women were still wearing full black abaya and couldn’t get in the water. Men were able to get in and cool off while women played with their kids on a swing set. That really struck me as extremely unfair.

At one point, I got an abaya because I wanted see what it was like (some young prepubescent girls do wear them, and even the scarf, but it was not required). I wore it out and got a lot of thumbs up from elderly men. On one hand, at the time, I thought it was nice that they were happy we were respecting their culture. On the other hand, as an adult, it’s pretty weird to consider that they were probably giving thumbs up because I was “covered up” as a ten year old. At our international school, none of my Muslim friends wore hijab at that age, and abayas were not required inside the school.

My mom and other women would get on a privately hired bus to go grocery shopping since they weren’t allowed to drive. When we pulled up at stop lights, women and girls would sometimes motion frantically to me from their back seat. I would wave back at them. They usually had the full veil covering their faces, so I couldn’t see their expressions. It was disconcerting because they didn’t really seem happy but it was hard to tell what was going on.

This was pre-internet days and since open public socialization/social mixing with strangers (especially foreigners or opposite sex) wasn’t allowed in Riyadh, some people would random-dial phone numbers just to talk to someone. Maybe because our number was published as being on a compound for foreigners, but we got many calls from both women and men, and one woman would call often and not speak much. She called herself “Shadow” and said “I am your shadow” and would hang up. Over time, she opened up and talked a bit to my mom in English. She seemed to be very frustrated and lonely, but she was always afraid to stay on the phone long. I still think of her and hope she’s okay. My parents also made “phone friends” with a man who liked to criticize the Saudi government and religious order. Men and women both wanted intellectual and uncensored conversations, but women were definitely more reticent and cautious to speak up, for good reason.

Guest workers from non-Western countries, of both sexes, were treated awfully and many of them lived in very rough conditions. Maids in private homes were frequently sexually abused and beaten. If they became pregnant by their employer, their children would be taken away by the employer’s family and they’d be deported or forced to be separated from the child while being “punished”.

I didn’t know the details of her situation, but I’ll never forget a kind Filipina lady who worked as a dental assistant. She disappeared one day after her pregnancy began showing (she was unmarried). She hugged me and started crying as she said goodbye. It all happened very suddenly and the dentist interrupted our conversation and kept her busy in another room so she couldn’t come out to see my mom. I told my mom what happened, and when we came back to check on her the next day, she was already gone, as if she’d never been there.

No one wanted to talk about her or seemed to care. We asked around and couldn’t find out anything except that she must have been forced to return to the Philippines. I still think of her often and hope she is okay. Whoever the father of that child was did not care to help her. She always was so sweet to me but it was clear she had always been under huge stress. Horrible things like this can happen anywhere, but the closed nature of Saudi society makes it easier to get by with abuse. Anything that happens to women, especially foreign workers, is “their fault.” I’m pretty sure Western guest worker men were participating in this exploitation too, because they could get by with it there. Western guest workers had much more privilege than non-Westerners, and the vast majority were men.

I haven’t had a chance to return to Saudi since women began driving there. I would love to see that! I remember seeing some imam on Saudi TV talking about how driving damages women’s reproductive systems and thus should be forbidden. (???? Apparently the same argument was made against bicycles for women in America when they first became popular. Men will try anything!

[–]K80L80 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Holy crap!! Thanks for the insight, that's an amazing visual. It totally reminds me of the show on Hulu called " The Handmaid's Tale". So creepy it seems to be based on true events.

[–]fijupanda 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I can't stand religious people anymore. I am done with them. I have religious friends, but I do keep them at a certain distance (you never know when the "you're going to hell for xzy" will pop up tbh). Ugh, just ugh. People that constantly need some outside authority on morals are freaking ridiculous and childlike. I am too old for this shit.

[–]Hard_headed_woman 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Please don't be so angry with her, especially if your mother had no means of support for herself and her children. It is easier to believe such nonsense than to realize that you are dependent on a man who can rape you. Much easier to "give in" than to live with the proof that he did rape you and continues to rape you.

[–]KennyLogins 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

This is a case of human software infected with malware. Every person deserves autonomy.

[–]ech 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

When your prophet famously married and bedded a six-year-old, the concept of marital rape seems almost sacrilegious.

[–]madandunabashed 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Religion is so toxic. Its sole goal is to serve as a tool for social control and as with most things in history, women got the short end of that stick, too.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

i find most muslim moms very stupid, most of them are immigrants and never had much eduction

most religious people are kinda dumb

[–]pink_lioness 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel really sad for her, it must take a lot of brainwashing to convince someone marital rape is okay.

[–]moonkitty34 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I feel bad for her she may be in deep denial and you may never be able to pull her out of it. But now you can break the cycle.