Alcoholics Anonymous is...

submitted by JasonCarswell from self.Research

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Alcoholics Anonymous is recognized as a force for good. I could go on gushing about this, and the public impression the corporate media portrays about it. But that's not what this is about.

Alcoholics Anonymous is also well documented as not-as-advertised and is extremely limited in its claimed abilities and effectiveness, is a religious cult with problematic hierarchies, and has very flawed methodologies. Some say it's harmful to many, and it's even claimed, like many things supported by the establishment, that it's meant to do more harm than good under the guise of benevolence.

Why am I speaking in these vague terms?

I had a heated disagreement with a friend IRL. I know AA can be great for some and can be terrible for others, however I couldn't recall specific citations despite seeing an abundance of them over the years, nor could I make strong specific arguments without sounding like I'm just smearing a beloved institution. I know enough, but this is not my expertise. Plus, I'm too busy/lazy/apathetic to care beyond drafting this post - yet I think this could be interesting and/or useful to many - and this may be a good experiment for /s/Research and our SaidIt community, and for the future topical projects with /s/WikiSpooks and /s/Projex.Wiki.

This post is a call for strong level-headed sources of critical analysis about the Alcoholics Anonymous phenomenon.

Please comment with links to media and/or share your own personal insights.

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[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Not sure if you want to read a whole book, but there's one called Recover by Stanton Peele that I enjoyed. A good alternative to the typical AA bullshit.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Good to know. Thanks for sharing.

I'm not trying to quit (I couldn't afford a habit anyway), but perhaps someone else may benefit from your alternative reference, and I can always check back if it ever comes up and is needed.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

Kneel before God and your addictions will be cured! Suck it science.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

$uck it $cience!™©Alcoholics Anonymous

Got any good links on the matter?

I know I've seen if not shared some, but muh SaidIt search...

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

No good links, but my understanding is that AA has the highest success rates outside of illegal drug therapies (ecstasy, Ayahuasca, other hallucinogens). But the stats certainly get murky because you never really leave AA. I think other therapies are more finite. But yeah saying you are powerless and need God's help might be their secret. Or maybe it's the easily digestible 12 step process. Maybe an anti-God personally empowered 12 step program is possible, like an anti-AA.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

I guess I need to dig up some documentaries exposing the AA cult for you. I know I've seen at least one.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Give it your worst. Maybe that founder Bill guy was popping pills or something, meh. If you combine all of the *A support groups (AA, NA, etc.), it's gotta be like the biggest secular organization on earth. You can stumble in their and get help any day. They don't love bomb you, and the coffee sucks ass.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

r/dryalcoholics is probably the best resource you can find for experience with the good but mostly bad aspects of AA.

Someone tell you to go to AA?

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

No. It came up in passing conversation. IIRC, it worked for his one sibling but not for his other, and I said that AA has its pros and cons and that it's not all that it's sold to us as. Then he wouldn't hear anything critical or skeptical about it and said I was always negative, despite knowing that's not true. Either he was tired and cranky, triggered by something else, or is defending the AA institution for unknown reasons.

Saturday nights we have our Freedom Mingle, and to remain productive and clear headed I'm trying this year sober. He got pretty stumbling drunk, especially for a 75 year old in good shape. I'm pretty certain he doesn't have a drinking problem, but perhaps in the past, maybe. I didn't want him driving so I drove his car to his house and crashed in his Lay-Z-Boy in his livingroom instead of my comfortable bed - plus the next day I could use his computer a bit before going to the big auto-workers freedom meeting. This flare up was after that on the way to dropping me off so he could go on to his late shift.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not worth fighting over AA unless someone is trying to send you imo, and even then I think it's worth checking out. Frankly, I think when people bad mouth AA without going they actually give ammunition to the AA supremacy crowd. There's lots of good criticisms about AA, but people who don't go often cite their issue with the reliance on a Higher Power in the literature, but I've never been to a particularly religious meeting. Nobody cared if you decided your HP was a coffee mug.

This issue with all these treatment programs is that people have been led to believe there's some method, some procedure, that makes quitting an addiction less awful than simply tapering, stopping and suffering till it passes.

Many addicts who have never gone see rehab as some sort of magical place that could fix them only if they could afford it.

That's why you can't make an addict quit. It's a constant unpleasant suffering that can last months or years, and you can fix it with "just one drink." (It's never just one drink) You need to want it bad enough to endure.

Wooo, writing that has made me downright thirsty.

[–]Tums_is_Smut_bkwrds 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

The recovery rate under AA is identical to the rate of quitting drinking in the general population without treatment. I haven't looked into this stuff for years but if memory serves it's around 6%.

[–]JasonCarswell[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yes. This is what I'm after.

I know I've seen at least one documentary illustrating their bunk statistics, among other issues.

[–]iDontShift 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

it helps some, it doesn't other

that is normal, really..

what is cure for one, is poison for another

why? because we are all at different positionalities in our journey of life, and what is good .. is what helps you improve

for some, it helps them reconnect with their higher power.. do many get stuck in the dogma and never move past? sure.. but that is the way with everything i have ever seen..

people abuse things..

until they discover the self-pain.... the reason to not do a thing

[–]automatik 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's actually a direct marketing and lead generation tool for de-addiction centres/rehabs.