Where is saidit hosted / based?

submitted by [deleted] from self.SaidIt

What country is saidit hosted in, and where are its admins located? Is it the USA or any other country required to comply with DMCA takedowns?

Is saidit being run under a corporation or any other company? If not, /u/magnora7 --- you can be held personally responsible for any legal issues that arise on the site. I don't need to know where you're located, but is it somewhere safe from that possibility?

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[–]magnora7 29 insightful - 1 fun29 insightful - 0 fun30 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Dallas TX, under a medium-sized independent server company that has no affiliation with any big server companies. If we ever have any trouble from them, we're technologically prepared to move to a new server at the drop of a hat.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (13 children)

You didn't answer the second question.

Are you running saidit through a corporation or some other kind of business entity? If not, you are taking a massive personal risk with some of the content you're attracting to this site. You can be held personally liable.

[–]magnora7 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Are you running saidit through a corporation or some other kind of business entity? If not, you are taking a massive personal risk with some of the content you're attracting to this site. You can be held personally liable.

It's run by donations, and we make zero money, and we're following all the relevant laws and rules.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 4 fun8 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 4 fun -  (11 children)

That isn't the question I asked. If you aren't running this as a proper business, you are making yourself personally liable for anything that happens on this site. You are also actively soliciting people to come here and post content that has attracted the attention of major-corporation lawyers, police, and even governments.

You seem to be extremely naive and it doesn't bode well for saidit's future. Talk to a lawyer immediately, or at least an adult that knows how to run a business. You are literally risking your future as a free person if you continue this way. This isn't a joke.

[–]magnora7 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

If you aren't running this as a proper business, you are making yourself personally liable for anything that happens on this site.

I don't think that statement is accurate, in my understanding. I can see where you're coming from, but I think you're a bit misguided. What would we get in trouble for, what is this scenario you're imagining that incorporating or forming an LLC would protect us from?

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (8 children)

Because of what the "LL" in "LLC" stands for --- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Limited_liability

If you don't have a company, any judgments or penalties against saidit will apply to you personally, since saidit doesn't even exist as a legal entity. If some bullshit copyright lawsuit gets awarded millions of dollars in damages, that's your debt for the rest of your life.

[–]magnora7 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

How can they sue us for copyright when we are losing money by running it? It's not a business, it's a non-profit, and those have different rules. We're following the open-source rules for reddit's code to the letter. I don't think an LLC provides nearly the protection you think it does, and I speak from experience.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

Are you registered as a non-profit? That's a specific type of corporation, not just a way of saying "we don't make any money".

This will be my last comment ever, because I've lost all confidence in this site and will not come back. I'll try one last time on my way out --- please talk to a lawyer, you're in way over your head.

[–]We_Are_God 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

Glad he left 🍻

[–]JasonCarswell 5 insightful - 5 fun5 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

He's like the guy at the party reminding everyone they're only mortal and everyone's gonna die, even all your babies. Dead, I tell you DEAD!!!

[–]ikidd 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I would turf this thread, it doesn't benefit anyone and is more of a personal nature to you and your other Admin.

He's not wrong, though it has no effect on your users, deleting their account was silly. You're small potatoes to the copyright holders at this point, but abstracting your involvement by shifting servers out of the US (maybe swiss?) would be a good move.

You might take some direction from opensource project governance procedures, I'm not sure if they run under LLCs typically, but being considered opensource does get you away from some levels of responsibility for the actions of the people that use your platform.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

IMO this site is about to get huge as reddit kills itself, could be wrong I just see some tea leaves, it doesn't matter now but might in the future where the MSM, the rich etc try to take this down if it doesn't censor tings like reddit did. But this should be a discussion magnora or whomever is involved has behind closed doors.

[–]athrowforthecentury 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Unfortunately, I don't see Reddit dying off anytime soon. Instead, I think it's going to go the way of Facebook and just devolve into a platform where corporations promote/influence certain posts and the rest are silenced. The company site is just way too big and a lot of people stopped caring about the crap they do - just like with Facebook. Even with the whole scandal, literally every one of my friends still use the site daily.

[–]fritobandito214 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Dude why don't you drop dead, who the fuck do you think you are with your interrogation type question? Do yourself a favor, tear ass back to reddit moron !

[–]Troll 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

nearlyfreespeech.net?

[–]Rozzer 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I asked the same question and one of the admins answered its hosted in USA. Check my post history, on mobile so I can't provide a direct link

Edit: https://saidit.net/comments/g2y/comment/s3v?context=3

[–]brickfrog 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (25 children)

Just asked a similar question in a different thread, for what it's worth /u/magnora7 has stated that saidit is vulnerable to DMCA notices. Also seems both hosting and admins are in the U.S.

https://saidit.net/s/piracy/comments/g6w/sharing_links/rv8

https://saidit.net/s/piracy/comments/g6w/sharing_links/rvn

Based on the current info it seems like saidit will have the same issues Reddit has with DMCA, copyright trolls, etc.

[–]magnora7 12 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 2 fun -  (24 children)

We might move the server abroad, I'm not against the idea. It's just that I don't know if it actually would offer any more protection when both the mods running it are in the US.

[–]Icalasari 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

Could be nice if seasteading takes off - hosting a server in international waters means you aren't beholden to such stuff, and can move the servers themselves if anybody tries to take matters in their own hands

[–]magnora7 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

We're working on a distributed solution where it would be peer-hosted so it could never be shut down. But that could be a year or two away as the technology is very new.

[–]Icalasari 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

So hit a bit of a bug. Got alerted three times to this same post as if it was a new response each time

[–]magnora7 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yes we're aware of the issue and working to resolve it, thank you. It's some kind of new bug.

/u/d3rr there's a couple other people having the issue now

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

One step forward two steps back :/

I can try a fix in like 30 mins.

[–]magnora7 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Would you be against me trying a server restart right now? Or at least restarting cassandra and a few other services?

[–]PaigeAP 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Same happened to me.

[–]useless_aether 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

me2

[–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think I just fixed it, let me know if you're still having the issue please.

[–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I think I just fixed it, let me know if you're still having the issue please.

[–]PaigeAP 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, I think it's fine now although when browsing the hot page in the top right corner it says that I have 31 post karma despite me having 44 post karma.

[–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If any pages are stuck, you can do a "hard refresh" in many browsers with ctrl+shift+R, and that may un-stick it. If you keep having problems, please please let us know because we need to fix this bug. I think we've mostly got it fixed though.

[–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I think I just fixed it, let me know if you're still having the issue please.

[–]Icalasari 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I shall let you know if I encounter it again, thanks

[–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Just the fact you got this message is a good sign that it's fixed :) Thanks

[–]Icalasari 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Oh damn, that's awesome. This'll be great for the Internet's freedom

[–]magnora7 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

They say distributed servers that no one can shut down will be Web 3.0

[–]Farseli 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I've been playing around with zeronet "zites" recently and it's certainly an interesting technology.

I know it was mentioned before, just noting that if it evolves and continues to advance I can see it being able to support something like this.

[–]Troll 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

The US is probably the best bet for freedom of speech. Iceland is overrated.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

LOL

[–]Ahrun 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Please move the server abroad, resisting censorship isn't possible when you're vulnerable to DMCA notices.

[–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

When both admins are in the US, does that actually make us any less vulnerable?

And does now potentially subjecting ourselves to international law in addition to US law make the server harder to shut down, or easier, in reality?

I understand your intent, but these questions need solid answers before we would take that risk.

[–]Ahrun 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You need to decide for yourself whether you want Saidit to be free from censorship by the US government. No other question matters.

Reddit chose to be hosted in the US & Voat decided for Switzerland. Only one remained as a platform for free speech.

[–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You need to decide for yourself whether you want Saidit to be free from censorship by the US government.

Until it's decentralized, this is nearly impossible while both admins are living in the US. It's just a fact of life I'm afraid. We're working toward decentralizing it. It's as free as we can manage without getting in trouble with the law.

Even voat doesn't allow piracy links and other things that break US law...

Decentralizing the server so it's peer-hosted is the only real way forward in the long run.

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good, my friend.

[–]Jesus 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

Host it in Iceland or Swtiz

[–]magnora7 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Would that matter when both admins are still in the US?

Also we're working on developing a decentralized solution, so it can be peer-hosted, and thus never ever shut down.

[–]xynixia 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

Have you considered ZeroNet? It runs on the BitTorrent network and works with existing torrent trackers to distribute files.

It's relatively easy to set up, and making a proxy to the clearnet is also really quick. When Reddit banned /r/watchpeopledie, my friends and I managed to setup a ZeroNet site and also made it accessible to the outside world through a VPS (Check out here for a demo).

Maybe Saidit could also have a similar system. There's even a Voat clone in ZeroNet that you guys could probably use as a starting point.

[–]magnora7 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Interesting, I haven't heard of Zeronet before, thanks for introducing me to it! I'll have to do some reading and see if it will fit our needs.

[–]xynixia 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Just FYI, someone's already made a Voat clone on ZeroNet so it is possible to host Saidit in there.

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I don't think this site could be Zeronet hosted, but I love the idea of a static content mirror being there.

[–]xynixia 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There's already a working Voat clone on ZeroNet, which we can use as a starting point for a new site. it's just a matter of whether or not the community wants to move.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

that sounds cool. im up for whatever if there's a consensus for it. there'd have to be some kind of bridge or centralized site to keep the RedReader android app going tho I think.

[–]Stoner 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That's pretty neat, what system/scripts are you using?

[–]xynixia 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The site is up on github. It's just a clone of ZeroTalk with some modifications to support nested comments and downvotes.

[–]JasonCarswell 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

/u/xynixia /u/d3rr /u/magnora7 /u/Farseli

I have Namecoin for SaidIt when they figure out a way to make it ZeroNet compatible - or for anyone who might be able to make it happen.

I was gifted it 3-4 years ago and have been sitting on it, feeling guilty about not starting a site there.

I haven't updated this for a year: https://infogalactic.com/info/ZeroNet

[–]xynixia 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

There's already a fully working Voat clone on ZeroNet, I guess it's up to Saidit to decide whether they want to move the community over.

[–]JasonCarswell 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Voat runs different code and has to pay to do so.

SaidIt is based on the old open source Reddit before they closed it.

I'm guessing that you can't have a site straddle between ZeroNet and Internet?

I had assumed it could have been like different formats or modes. For example, using the same SaidIt database etc there are 3 other modes in addition to the normal browser mode (https://infogalactic.com/info/SaidIt#Mobile_modes) as well as the apps.

[–]xynixia 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

That's going to be a bit challenging. I guess the front end UI part could be hosted normally while the user content is stored in IPFS. Keeping the database won't be possible with IPFS since it only works with static files, but I think using a separate proxy server to contact ZeroNet might work.

So the clearnet UI will connect to a clearnet proxy which has access to ZeroNet. There could even be multiple proxies located in different regions for redundancy.

But by doing that, the community wouldn't be seeding the ZeroNet backend since everything is done through a proxy.

Also, I don't think the Voat clone on ZeroNet runs Voat code, since the backend system is completely different from conventional websites. Rewriting the site from scratch would've been easier.

Can you elaborate on Voat having to pay to run the code? Does it run on a proprietary/commercial license or something?

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I thought ZeroNet was another network and IPFS was about distributed decentralization that ZeroNet could also do but not necessarily needed to. Am I close or wrong?

And I'm guessing IPFS can work with ZeroNet and/or vice versa?

DDG was no help. What is "clearnet"?

Different proxies sounds good in general but also because M7 and D3 wish to keep their host secret to avoid being a target, though I can't speak for them.

I may be wrong but if I recall, Voat re-wrote the Reddit thing in some Microsoft thing that requires a licencing fee that keeps them broke yet has no advantages. If it wasn't d3rr who told me then magnora7 knows.

One thing I know for sure is there's ZeroNet browser addons to make it seamless, though I don't know if they have them for mobile browsers.

Have you looked at Holochain or /s/DecentralizeAllThings ?

[–]xynixia 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, IPFS is another thing. It integrates more easily into existing browsers without having to download extra software, and there are already websites implementing it (e.g. d.tube). Clearnet is just a term we use to refer to the normal internet.

Not sure what they're planning, but isn't keeping it a secret basically just security by obscurity? Sooner or later someone's going to find out anyways. Redundancy should be better in that case.

I saw the ZeroNet helper extension but it still requires ZeroNet to be installed in your computer, which is probably one of the main barriers that prevents people from adopting the technology. Downloading another piece of software just to access one website is too much of a hassle.

And thanks for introducing me to Holochain, I just checked it out and it seems interesting. I'll have to look into it.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Who planning? SaidIt? /s/IdeasForSaidIt/wiki/index

[–]happysmash27 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I am happy to donate to the cause myself.

[–]ConfederateOfAmerica 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Im not sure but it’s most likely us based

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

don't tell this shill