TRANSGENDERBring your best arguments for or against the concept of allowing people to change their gender.

submitted by clownworlddropout from self.TumblrInAction

Like the title says, I want to hear your best arguments for or against the concept of allowing people to change their gender.

There's a social contract at play in today's world that I don't remember signing, so let's see just where we are and the why or why not of it all.

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[–]Alienhunter糞大名 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

People can't change their sex. Doesn't matter if we allow it or not. With current medical technology what we have isn't a gender change but a series of experimental hormone treatments and invasive cosmetic surgeries that make someone look more like the other sex. But let's just say the psychological effects aren't exactly well understood or documented, and even after transitions well, things aren't so peachy.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ftm/comments/t1jr3t/helping_my_husbands_dysphoria/

Main issues at play, gender disphoria is a real condition, we can't reasonably precent people from chosing to identify how they wish, but the medical and social institutions shouldn't be under any obligation to recognize self identified gender identities ant more than they should be obligated to recognize self identified handicaps as reason for parking in the handicapped spot.

It's a mental illness, there's a capitalistic corporate profit driven medical lobby interested in monetizing treatment as much as possible. There might be some measurable benefit towards mental health but it's not anywhere close to resembling fix since suicide rates post transition are still super high. It is however by far the solution that makes the most money for doctors as it requires lifelong treatment.

So letting people to change their gender, whatever the fuck that actually means, isn't necessarily fixing their underlying problems. And it may be making their problems worse in many cases. You wouldn't let someone who is "transabled" and has limb disphoria pay to have their healthy limbs surgically removed. You wouldn't let someone who is a blind cave fish otherkin pay to have their eyeballs and lungs removed. Why should we allow people who suffer from gender disphoria pay to have their genitals removed?

Are we going to let the guy who thinks he's Jesus pay someone to crucify him? It's all nonsense.

[–]FlyingKangaroo 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Very good point. People need to realize our sex isn’t fluid as some creatures might have it. We’re made that way and how the transition would be different from otherkin wanting to become a fox, unicorn or a bird? An argument that trans people use is that “but you cis are obsessed with genitals!!!” while we’re not. They’re the ones who are anxious their genitals control their life. If anything, we need to challenge those dumb enough to still shit on women/men for being women/men and not pander to those who want to chase something impossible in hope it will make their life ideal. Trans people use biology arguments in such a way they disfigure them or use arguments not applying to humans in hope someone will be unintelligent enough to buy into it. They will play with any evidence to make it seem it supports them.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well yes it's classic psyche 101 projection. Gender disphoria causes a fixation on their own genitalia and secondary sex characteristics and they'll accuse others of having a "vagina fetish" or what not because apparently they've kinda lost the memo that people treating them like the "gender" they identify is more a case of being polite for the sake of not causing a scene rather than actually accepting that they really are what they say they are. Some people then run with this and willfully transgress social norms until it gets to the point people won't put up with it anymore.

Can't birth a child through your dick. If you get it inverted, still can't, because you don't have a womb. Most people just don't encounter the crazy that often so they get blindsided by them in real life and don't have a good comeback for obviously insane bullshit.

Same reason why narcissistic psychopath "Karen" types continue to do what they do with little pushback. Everyone hates them but most people haven't spent enough time dealing with crazy to know you can just, call their bluff and watch them meltdown, as they're still going off the social rules of dealing with sane good faith actors. People acting in bad faith simply can't be reasoned with so it's a futile attempt to try. Don't bother to answer their questions. Just tell em off.

The problems come into play when they start trying to play the legal system to back them. Which is why it's very important not to shirk jury duty as your civil responsibility.

[–]clownworlddropout[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This is a good argument, but I'd like to add that so-called gender dysphoria isn't the only avenue towards transitioning.

Gender confusion can occur for many other reasons: homosexuality, gender non-conformity, peer or parental pressure, narcissism, self-loathing, indoctrination... the list goes on, and there's no gatekeeping permitted within psychology to weed out and protect these people from their own self-destruction.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Good point. All are potential causes for trans identification. Also I'd like to point out a fairly big difference between simply experiencing gender confusion which is a fairly normal phenomenon that happens to a lot of people to some degree at some point in their lives, and actually identifying as the opposite sex.

I think for women especially, but also men, it's fairly typical of them to go through a period of bodily disphoric and gender confusion post puberty.

[–]proc0 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Every single human is born with a DNA code that specifies exactly how the organism will look, the organs to make, etc., and even certain properties of the brain which affect personality, feelings, subjective experience, etc. This is all specified in code... a woman is a human being with DNA that has certain features like producing a womb (it's a spec requirement) ... this doesn't mean every single woman is expressed perfectly according to the code, but even those that don't still have it encoded in the DNA. Until we can modify DNA in every cell, no man can become a woman, and vice versa.

Gender has a function, which is tied to sex and reproduction. If your DNA doesn't have the code to produce a womb, then your DNA will have code to make more muscles, have a larger frame, in order to protect the other sex that has a womb. It takes two organisms to reproduce, therefore two sexes, and therefore two gender roles.

We can change this and deviate from the function of evolution, but we shouldn't pretend DNA does not matter, and evolution does not matter, and all this time men and women were interchangeable. I would have more respect for the whole gender movement ideology if it was framed as transcending human evolution, but instead it's trying to rewrite it and gaslight everyone into believing the reality is not what you thought it was.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No one wants to just admit that this existence is complete and utter crap.

[–]IMissPorn 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Gender is made up nonsense, so of course people should be allowed to change it, same as changing religion, or any other made up nonsense you happen to believe in. What you can't change is your sex. And to be clear, that's can't not "aren't allowed to". It's not possible. Sex is what matters for most things, like sports for instance, and most people would say it matters for relationships. Of course if your fellow adherents to gender ideology want to base decisions on made up nonsense instead of sex, they are free to do so among themselves, just don't try to force that on me or other nonbelievers.

[–]clownworlddropout[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I think gender has a causal relationship with sex so isn't just made up nonsense. Gender norms are a reflection of our sex-based roles and our sex-based roles evolved to facilitate cooperation between the sexes in producing successful offspring. This is why sexual dimorphism exists in the first place! The burdens of reproduction vary greatly between the sexes, so a successful life trajectory varies greatly between the sexes, and so different morphology, different temperament, different behaviour all exist between the sexes to better succeed at their respective life trajectories. In mind, body, and soul*; men and women are distinct entities.

*excuse my romanticism, I don't mean a literal "soul" here.

[–]IMissPorn 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

In mind, body, and soul; men and women are distinct entities.

Ah, gendered souls. Sound familiar. Do you also accept that one of these "souls" could sometimes not match the sex of the body it's attached to? If not, I'm not clear on the purpose of introducing extra entities.

[–]clownworlddropout[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I use soul metaphorically, as our being or self. Maybe spirit would have been a less loaded term to use.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

People keep saying there's a difference between soul and spirit, but are never able to explain what it is. The only thing I've noticed is that people tend to think of a soul as part of a living person, and a spirit as disembodied.

[–]IMissPorn 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Alright, but it still seems like an unnecessary complication.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Everyone has gone full circle at this point.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

And it's SHIT. There's literally no point except to make us mindless cattle. Yes it can be good for the majority of people, but even then it bars off better options.

[–]clownworlddropout[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Whether you think it's shit or not, it exists all the same. Besides, I don't think gender roles are as limiting or as stringently enforced as you are implying.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I was referring to the natural limitations. Social stereotypes are a secondary issue.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You are correct, which is among the many reasons I'll say good riddance when this world reaches its end.

[–]jet199 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Gender doesn't exist so you can't change it.

[–]FlyingKangaroo 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s sexist and doesn’t help with real problem.

I see people still use the “brain sex” argument. Now in case we accept this for discussion, this makes the trans thing really against natural diversity. Because of some women would have “masculine” brains and men “feminine brains”, why should we don’t accept that makes women and men naturally diverse? I saw a commenter saying this is the reason for coming out as trans, as someone is born to live as another gender. But this is sexist, it’s like saying that a girl who behaves in some ways regarded as masculine (cultural context is a reference too) should live as a boy, but on another level (brain biology). So, if we had to accept any variation of that idea, then transing erases the natural diversity and works towards cementing conglomerates of men and women while they claim to fight against stereotypes, actually support them. As some said it was already bad in certain times or society circles, I think the trans thing will help to reinforce stereotypes for those not fitting into stereotypical perception about their sex. Such as tomboys will be regarded as “trans eggs” or “not women, but make it woke!”. It’s no different from “you’re not womanly enough, that’s bad” except woke crow would be like “you’re not womanly enough, you go! break the binary!” but tomboys being like “I’m a woman in my own way, hello?”. Regardless of what the queers say, it’s not helpful at all for men who are soft in some way or have any degree of “feminine characteristics”, they will be mistaken for homosexuals or NBs or other variations of trans, not recognized as men they are, and mostly straights.

We overlook people who have serious trauma or problems of various degrees who become trans. Only this week I came across a girl describing herself as minor who writes she’s bi and FTM. Her post history reveals rape in childhood and ongoing self harm. Even though she denies it, it’s clear she associates masculinity with some control over life, perhaps safety (strange because most likely a man hurt her, but I saw other victims like that...), men having higher position in some societies, being regarded as stronger, etc. Therefore allowing trans identities will further damage all those with low self-esteem, will reinforce stereotypes and not give enough/proper help to those struggling with experiences of abuse, toxic families, mental illness or alienation, all sorts of issues. It will not lead society into direction of managing trauma or supporting young generations but it will lead us into allowing people slip into a trap of never-ending mind and body damage. Physical transition has many problems which I assume we are aware of here; in cases without surgery, it’s still bizarre to play with your identity on such a basis. I mean, identity can change in life (even religious converts are an example) but this is way too extreme to use sex/gender for that. It’s like homemade dissociation. “You’re not you”, trans people don’t really grow as people, they strive to transform into ideal imaginary persona, their transition goal.

Another argument is that it will be bad for administration and other affairs in daily life. Since the basic trans thing is already being widely accepted, all the enby variations will bring further confusion. If someone accepts FTMs, why not accept genderfluidity? In theory, that can allow person to change identity as many times as they wish. So, we already have students in some countries bitching about not having their “real” names or pronouns in online systems. Even if they would be given a few ones to put there, the chances of changes are never-ending, it will only bring chaos. Even in a regular conversation between people, over the course of days or even minutes...

Let’s also not forget how it all can worsen crime investigation. A criminal will be able to change identity and that might ease fleeing the justice system. Since someone might say you’re not allowed to ask about transition or the past of someone, it might be easy to convince someone they’re a different person or just stop someone by the “power of being offended” and transphobia accusations. Even without criminal cases or any illegal matters, it is helping to create chaos in society by further acceptance of not stable enough identities.

It will damage children because they will be not taught that they can do whatever they like but will see the subtle codes of “a boy not being boyish enough is secretly a girl”. Don’t even get me started of the horrors of possibility of being brought up by trans but just sharing these ideas to children will confuse them. Age-appropriate education but no propaganda. Saying that transition is the only way to deal with dysphoria is like helping anorexics to lose weight.

[–]LyingSpirit472 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The social contract at play throughout life is "I don't really give a shit about you if I don't know you." If someone's doing their own thing and just existing, I really don't give a shit about what they're doing as long as they don't give me a reason to give a shit about what they do.

With that in mind- if someone decides they want to live as the other gender and just put their head down and try to just live their life as that other gender without making any demands for it, then I can respect their wish and will treat them as if they're that gender.

When someone tries changing the social contract to demand special treatment for themselves, and it's obvious they're demanding special treatment...THEN we have a problem. Then it becomes "no, I respect the rights of trans people- I just don't respect you, you dark triad cunt. You are not owed being special because you're cloaking yourself in this group; shit, you're only making it worse for people of that group because we know damn well you don't really believe a word you say for the group and are only jockeying to be put on a pedestal. If no one else will call you on this because you've convinced people what's good for you, personally, is good for the group, I'll be happy to say the emperor is naked."

[–]brimshaeBased Woodchipper Merchant 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

XX does not become XY in humans. The opposite is also true.

Thank you for attending my TedX Talk.

[–]ID10T 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's not physically possible to change your sex. And sexually distinctions and protections are there because without them women suffer from increased danger and lessened opportunity.

Gender ideology is regressive because it assigns looks and behaviors to a specific sex. Women and men should be free to express themselves however they want, and be an effeminate man or a masculine woman if they so choose.

Gender ideology is dehumanizing and destructive to tomboys (boyish girls) and fem boys alike.

[–]FlyingKangaroo 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Another comment because my previous one was a long one.

I’m afraid that transition and “secrecy” of it will give a further pass for child abuse. Like, people will be told to not care about what parents do with their child (when not all parents are good obviously...) or parents won’t be able to stop indoctrination at some schools (when a teacher might encourage a child to transition and school will ease that process in name of trans rights).

That will create situations in which child abuse will be hidden and protected from investigation. Anyone daring to investigate it or criticize will be condemned as a transphobe and possible child abuser while the real abusers will be the ones transing the child.

Not a trans example but look at the child “drag queens”. It’s very similar.

About trans people, compare it to infamous Discord servers and other online communities. It will have extension in real life. Telling child those who might be real help for him/her are not to be trusted and instead someone else cares for them, is their “real parent/guardian”. Such situations will facilitate grooming and even exposing children and teenagers to porn, giving them harmful substances, exposing them to degenerate stuff and behaviors. And of course will reinforce, more or less willingly, support for this degeneration because “our little group is cool and rad and all the others and bland evil cis people”.

Of course it all also implies children are capable of adult decisions and adult thought processes which is hella creepy and mirrors the arguments pedophiles use; the acceptance of trans children and via queer connection, exploring “sexuality” at such a young age is a thing helping to hide pedophilia.

[–]Tums_is_Smut_bkwrds 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

There's a very small portion of the population that appears to actually suffer from so-called gender dysphoria. In these cases an argument can be made for gender reassignment surgery and hormone treatment, but only for adults. Regardless there is no strong evidence that such treatments actually improves the well being of the patient in the longer term. In fact the opposite appears to be the case in the majority of cases. Therefore this should not be considered a public health issue nor paid for using tax dollars. However since we're talking adults here then they should be given the freedom to make their own life choices. In essence if you want to cut your dick off then have at'er, but don't expect me to pay for it or be sympathetic if it does not turn out the way you hoped. I wish you all the best but you are on your own here.

Otherwise the arguments in support of gender reassignment are, every one, emotion based and therefore can be discounted in any serious discussion about public health policy.

[–]Dragonerne 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

God made man and woman. Anything else is demonic, satanic and blasphemy and christophobic

This argument is perfect because there is no rebuttal. You can't argue against someone who believes in God

[–]clownworlddropout[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

This is an awful argument to make, it carries no weight, you'd be dismissed as just another religious loon.

[–]Dragonerne 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It is the best argument to make, because it cannot be refuted.

The whole point is to be "dismissed as just another religious loon". Dismissed is what I want. I am not seeking to debate leftists, I am here to destroy them and they cannot attack me for being a christian and anyone else who opposes LGBTQ can join me while we use the cross as our shield against Darkness. Let the light shine on them.

Edit: The reason why they cannot attack me for being christian is because it is illegal in my country and on most forums that aren't controlled by jews.

[–]deusex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Body autonomy should allow you to chop off whatever part of your body you want. But dear god, not when you're clearly mentally unsound and/or a child. This is just insane.