all 23 comments

[–]shatabee5 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Americans in general might not give a fig about Ukraine and Russia.

But they should care about how their government is stealing their taxpayer dollars to flood the pockets of billionaires. They should care about how their government is globally pillaging and raping and spreading death and violence, not to help the American people, but to flood the pockets of the billionaires with stolen assets from other nations.

Americans could look at how shitty their own country is getting with its endless list of ills like homeless encampments and drug abuse and lawlessness and failure to address climate change. Then they should ask themselves why their government puts so much time, money and effort into war instead of into building up the U.S. and the American people.

America is a war machine by and for the billionaires.

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The author of this blog post hyperlinked to NATO Expansion: What Gorbachev Heard, an archive of the declassified documents that "show security assurances against NATO expansion to Soviet leaders from Baker, Bush, Genscher, Kohl, Gates, Mitterrand, Thatcher, Hurd, Major, and Woerner."

In addition to the documents, the site has a lengthy summary of the people involved, what was agreed to and when. What is abundantly clear is that Western leaders acknowledged that the only reasonable way forward was to build a new security architecture that protected everyone's security interests, something they've expressly refused to do as recently as December 2021.

[–]InumaGaming Socialist[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Hard to keep up sometimes!

[–]InumaGaming Socialist[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Those were easier times without The Turtle...

[–]rondeuce40DC Is Wakanda For Assholes 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (19 children)

This should be required reading for anyone who is remotely curious about understanding the Russia/Ukraine conflict. Very well written and easy to understand. The Straussians have been at this for a very long time and they finally got their wish. The only thing they have failed to realize is that it has all blown up in their faces spectacularly. That's because the people calling the shots i.e. Blinken, Sullivan Nuland are deranged lunatics that have no military expertise and can be boiled down to a "might is right" mindset. If these folks were to be evaluated by a panel of psychologists, they would unanimously conclude that these people belong in an asylum and should be kept far away from sharp objects.

[–]socks-the-nigger 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (12 children)

u/Bitch-Im-a-cow is already aware of that

[–][deleted]  (11 children)

[deleted]

    [–]InumaGaming Socialist[S] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

    Joe Biden was mentioned by Victoria Nuland as being part of the American-led coup in Ukraine in 2014. Shortly thereafter, Obama made Biden Viceroy in Ukraine. John Brennan was CIA Director in 2014, and he became a leading protagonist in the Russiagate fraud from 2016 forward. In 2021, Joe Biden was brought to power in the U.S., and Volodymyr Zelensky started provoking Russia far out of proportion to the Ukrainian military’s ability to back him up.

    At a minimum, the same American players that participated in the coup in Ukraine, and were bit actors or leading protagonists in the Russiagate fraud, are now back at the center of current tensions with Russia. Victoria Nuland is back at the State Department and Joe Biden is in the White house. And the CIA’s interim campaign to demonize Russia has been wildly successful. The urban bourgeois in the U.S. believe CIA propaganda exactly as it was fed to them. Word for word.

    Do you have ANYTHING to say about the article you didn't read or just everything for finger pointing nonsense?

    [–]socks-the-nigger 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    We don’t think so

    [–]3andfro 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

    It's possible to recognize the US and NATO roles in setting the stage for this conflict and furthering it without supporting Russia or Putin on this issue.

    Why do you substitute Putin for Russia? Metonymy can be misleading and inflammatory. Do you treat Biden as synonymous with the US? Are those who sympathize with the plight of Ukraine civilians automatically Zelensky supporters?

    [–][deleted]  (1 child)

    [deleted]

      [–]3andfro 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

      You have a reading comprehension problem and, from present evidence, a likely deficit in logical deduction.

      [–]NetweaselContinuing the struggle 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

      All of that avoids the fact that

      Your phrasing seems to imply that you are attempting to avoid "all of that," or at least are attempting to hand-wave "all of that" away.

      [–][deleted]  (4 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]3andfro 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        That response suggests you could benefit from a review of the Rules section in the sidebar.

        [–]NetweaselContinuing the struggle 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

        Bitch-Im-a-cow: Only if you have an IQ of 8

        Oh, I see....
        Projection confirmed.

        [–]3andfro 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

        A comment from that saiditor as background that may illuminate your exchange: https://saidit.net/s/politics/comments/b38u/us_is_barred_from_combating_disinformation_on/12zxk

        [–]NetweaselContinuing the struggle 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

        So... maybe it's not projection.....

        [–]InumaGaming Socialist[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

        It's... Worse than that actually. All of them have a background in the area and think they're experts. Nuland's family is from Belarus. Blinken was (I think) Ukrainian. They harbored a grudge because Russia is far more successful. Something about Russia's success meant their families were destroyed because of communism or somesuch. The Neocon project is this way of keeping the world under their thumb right along with the 93 Wolfowitz Doctrine and it truly shows that hatred and anger can make you psychotic.

        [–]3andfro 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

        You've read something that supports this contention, or you're inferring from family origins?

        Nuland and Blinken are dangerous and deplorable, but dangers also lurk in reading motivation where it may not exist.

        [–]InumaGaming Socialist[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        Reading their background when it came up at Reddit.

        I think just before we left, Vicky came up.

        Normally, I try to avoid character profiles as just what you imply but neocon are a special breed of hatred.

        Arch Duchess Hillary Clinton has a long record and is where I started noticing this during the 2016 election rigging.

        She got fired on Watergate trying to defend Nixon, she laughed about getting a pedophile who raped a girl out of going to jail, owned slaves in Arkansas, and always seemed to find her way into further depths of evil so much, I swear, she has a deal with the Devil to keep her and Kissinger out as long as possible...

        For Nuland, my information is more recent since I never knew about the coup until the SMO.

        So I listened to Gonzalo Lira, read Consortium News, then looked at her background.

        Jake, I still have to look into but it's from sources that checked out in other areas.

        Anne Applebaum? I bought her book (much to my chagrin) and she's married to a Polish right wing politician who said "Thanks USA" for blowing up the NS2 pipeline.

        I just slowly follow the neocon female and the crazy spills out...

        [–]MeganDelacroix🤡🌎 detainee 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

        Chomsky's father was from the Ukraine too.

        I don't have the time to look this up right now, but assuming it's true, "asinine" is way too kind.

        None other than Noam Chomsky recently weighed in with what has to be the most asinine ‘analysis’ yet offered. Chomsky offered that the Russians could have appealed to NATO members Germany and France to rein the Americans in.

        Is it really true though? On one hand it's difficult to believe Chomsky would be that naive, on the other, he did get taken in completely by COVID. Is "Rein in your master, slaves!" dumber than "Starve the plague-rats?"

        [–]InumaGaming Socialist[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

        Chomsky has always been the product of elite academia.

        If you truly want a rebel in intelligentsia, you read Michael Parenti and follow him as actual working class aligned.

        Like, he well aware of the worst of American Empire but eventually comes late to the party.

        COINTELPRO? Called it out but late.

        Police uprisings? Out but late.

        I think that some of it has to do with his media consumption.

        With NYT and other establishment media lying to him, c you see the gaps he has.

        And with no community around him except that of personality, you see how he becomes more outdated while Parenti (imo) ages like wine.

        [–]MeganDelacroix🤡🌎 detainee 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        Hmm, I've seen his son on Sabby's channel and read his columns in Compact, seems a good man. Maybe I should give Parenti pere a shot.

        [–]InumaGaming Socialist[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

        Assertions now being made that the Russian military incursion into Ukraine is illegitimate are motivated by ignorance of American history toward the Russians, ignorance of American history in Ukraine, and ignorance of the long history of the Americans invading, overthrowing, undermining, and subverting other nations using the flimsiest of pretexts. The American political leadership accepts this jingoistic, know-nothing, response because it supports its own. The problem for the Americans is that this epoch of imperial arrogance is coming unmoored.

        The U.S. spent the post-WWII period hemming the Soviets, now the Russians, in militarily. The stated reason from 1946 through 1991 was to ‘contain communism.’ With the dissolution of the Soviet Union in 1991, there was brief discussion of a peace dividend, the reallocation of national resources away from the military to domestic uses. However, the weapons industry and military-dependent towns and cities rebelled, and so a new enemy was invented--- international terrorism. Soon enough, the historically convenient foe of the Russians was revived.

        The plausibility of the terrorist threat lay in expected blowback for U.S. military operations in the Middle East to sustain U.S. control of oil and gas distribution. National sovereignty was treated as a fiction except where American interests were found. The fantasy sold was that peace would prevail if the Americans controlled the world. As if to illustrate the folly of this conceit, for the brief period that the U.S. had military dominance, it launched serial wars in Serbia, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen, and launched a coup in Ukraine.