Russia isn't invading or conquering Ukraine. Russia is devouring and absorbing Ukraine.

submitted by jerryk from self.WayOfTheBern

Much is made in the West about the fact that what was supposed to be a "three day war" in Ukraine is still going on. Well, that's a fair point. Why can't Russia "defeat" Ukraine more quickly?

Well, fact is, Russia was never really trying to "defeat" Ukraine. Russia's initial intention was simply to stage a kind of lightning coup against the Zelensky government, and replace it with a more Russia friendly regime. As it happened, the NATO airlift of weapons forestalled this option. Instead, Russia has settled down to the process of systematically absorbing all the best parts of Ukraine, and, they may get around to the rest of the country, as well. Compare this to Napoleon's rather rapid conquest of European Russia -- in just five months -- and its disastrous aftermath. Or, pretty much the same deal for Adolf Hitler, over a century later. Sure, they conquered a lot of territory quickly, but, they couldn't hold any of it, and were ultimately crushed themselves.

In contrast, Russia is solidifying its position, importing hundreds of thousands of Russian colonists into Crimea and Mariupol, among other territories. They're building bridges, railways, roads all linking these new territories to the rest of Russia. Sure, Ukrainian terrorists are trying to blow them up, with mixed success, but, Russia is turning these provinces back into Russian territories, in all senses of the word, very quickly indeed!

Sure, Russian soldiers are dying in Ukraine. But, so are a lot of Ukrainians, and, it's Russia that's on the move, taking hundreds of square miles of Ukrainian territory daily. What NATO still doesn't quite get, is that all they're doing by "helping" Ukraine, is hurting the Ukrainian people, and hurting themselves, and their own economies. NATO is trying to teach Russia a lesson, and, they're doing it. NATO is impotent, incompetent, and corrupt, and the Russians can take whatever they want, and do whatever they want, and there's nothing whatsoever that NATO can do about it.

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[–]unagisongsBurn down Reddit! 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Russia has settled down to the process of systematically absorbing all the best parts of Ukraine, and, they may get around to the rest of the country, as well.

This is foolish western hubris believing occupying is country is feasible or rational. The west's intelligence organizations would love to fund an insurgency to make Russia miserable. Russians are a lot more caution after the Afghanistan debacle. Occupying the totality of Ukraine is fundamentally a trap.

Sure, Russian soldiers are dying in Ukraine. But, so are a lot of Ukrainians,

More importantly Russia is disarming Europe. It's hard to have any kind of occupying force to try and invade Russia with nothing left in the tank. Nor will Europe have bodies willing to try invading. Any European solider with a functioning brain does not wants to be sent to invade Russia. The Ukrainians that are willing to invade Russia are getting eradicated. The same people that would be joining an insurgency if Russia was to occupy the entire country or voting against Russia in the future are losing more their lives, but their total political opposition to Russian interests.

What NATO still doesn't quite get, is that all they're doing by "helping" Ukraine, is hurting the Ukrainian people, and hurting themselves, and their own economies.

The current goal of NATO is to strip Ukraine for parts and literally sell it off to Black Rock and it's subsidiaries. Every war is a resource war. There is no "helping". War is about people "helping themselves" to other people's wealth and resources. Especially weak countries like Ukraine are too fragile to stop the US from forming a shadow government and forcing them into a war with the Russians. Ukraine won't be a state by the time the war is over. It will have collapsed into stateless buffer zone between Russia and rest of Europe. West Ukraine with no formal government structure benefits the Russia security state by letting them have carte blanche to shape West Ukraine as they see fit without occupying the area directly. I expect West Ukraine will be heavily dependent on Russian humanitarian aid once the West slips out the back door.

NATO is trying to teach Russia a lesson,

NATO is fighting Russia due to their interference with the US coup in Syria. This prevented the Saudi/UAE pipeline from running oil and gas pipe lines through the middle east to the balkens to directly compete with Russian oil and gas production. Effectively putting Russia in the dog house by by having the Saudis and UAE temporarily drive European oil and gas prices into the ground. This benefits the Saudis and the UAE by putting a global competitor in the oil business under their thumb. Europe benefits by ensuring an abundant oil and gas supply from cheap suppliers whether the Saudis or the new balkanized Russia they had intended to create. Naturally the Russians did not want to stay Europe's whipping boy and decided to protect their interests. However many Russian oligarchs that would very much like to see Putin put down so they may rise again as petty lords. They paid US politicians handsomely to do their bidding and pursue a regime change war through the Ukrainian puppetry. This has lead to some Russians learning how fly the hard way. All that pain and suffering for what? A little bit more money and power.

[–]kingsmegLiberté, égalité, fraternité 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Russia is turning these provinces back into Russian territories

This was not Russia's plan. Russia took the part they actually wanted back in 2014: Crimea, with the naval base and ports of Sevastopol, which have been the heart of the Russian navy since the 18th century. This was absolutely critical for Russia, there was never any possibility of USA driving out the Russians and turning Sevastopol into a NATO base, and the Black Sea into a NATO pond. Russia would have fought a war with all of NATO over this, nuclear if need be.

But they didn't need the Donbas, or Odessa. Russia is the largest country in the world, just about the least populous by area, and they have tremendous untapped natural resources. They didn't need to take more land from Ukraine, it was in fact more valuable to Russia to have Ukraine as a buffer than to swallow up any part of Ukraine. They are being forced into this by NATO, to push back the NATO missiles to a range that Russia can defend from them.

And this does not bode well for Finland, as USA/NATO moves in there with a bunch of nukes within a couple minutes' flight time of both St-Petersburg and Murmansk. Russia will not tolerate this, full stop. They will obliterate Finland, if they have to, and they don't have the same brotherly feelings for Finns as they have for Ukrainians.

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

NATO is impotent, incompetent, and corrupt, and the Russians can take whatever they want, and do whatever they want, and there's nothing whatsoever that NATO can do about it.

This is basically true but a bit misleading as it implies Russia wants to take more than they've already taken or said in so many words they plan to take - Odessa & Kharkov - because these were historically Russian. They have zero interest in taking or occupying the ultranationalist western Ukraine, and as Putin said in his interview with Tucker, they would only attack a NATO country (in this case, Poland) if that country attacked them first.

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

absorbing all the best parts of Ukraine

A mischaracterization. What they have done is "absorbed" the parts that are predominantly ethnic Russians, and this was at the latter's insistence. Basically they told Russia "we don't want you to come in to help us fight and then leave because the SBU will then come in and destroy us, so either make it permanent or don't help us at all."

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Russia's initial intention was simply to stage a kind of lightning coup against the Zelensky government, and replace it with a more Russia friendly regime.

Don't recall this being one of their stated objectives. And why would it be? Zelensky ran and won the 2019 election on a platform that included a negotiated peace agreement with Russia. The SMO was intended to show Kiev and the West that Russia was serious about keeping Ukraine out of NATO, and Zelensky was ready to come to terms in March/April 2022 before the West scuttled it.

[–]Maniak🥃😾 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Russia isn't invading or conquering Ukraine. Russia is devouring and absorbing Ukraine.

Not even that. Russia is doing whatever Russia has to do based on NATO's actions.

Nothing would even have happened in the first place if NATO had respected its own agreements and not put nazis in power in Ukraine, who then went on to do to ethnic Russians for the past 10 years what Israel has been doing to Palestinians for the past 80 years.

And then the US forced Russia to launch its SMO by doing precisely what they knew would launch it.

And then the US/NATO blocked the Ukraine-friendly peace treaty that was ready to be signed after barely 2 months, since as you mentioned, this was intended to be a quick "sit the fuck down" bitchslap.

But NATO kept of stringing this along, and kept on furnishing the Ukrainazis with longer and longer range weapons, which means that Russia obviously has to "devour and absorb" more and more of the territory in order to maintain a buffer zone within which NATO missiles can't reach Russian territory.

The initial takeover of the territories occupied by ethnic Russians was done to protect them from the NATO-funded nazis who had been shelling them since 2014. The territories that will be taken on top of this are entirely on NATO, because Russia isn't going to let a NATO-controlled nazi-filled country be within reach of its people. Duh.

Russia isn't the country that went back on every single treaty and spent the past several decades building military bases and staging coups all over the world, specifically surrounding Russia and China.

Russia wants a buffer zone, outside of NATO missile range, to keep its territory safe from NATO aggression. That's not only reasonable but straight-up necessary. If it means that they have to take over the whole thing because of NATO aggression, I wish them all the best.

We, in the West, are the ones on the wrong side of history, yet again.

[–]jerryk[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Correct.