What Russia Wants From Its Invasion of Ukraine—and Why Zelensky Is Evil

submitted by UcDat from youtube.com

all 14 comments
sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun

[–]StillLessons 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

This is a valuable perspective.

The best anyone can do in a complex situation like this is get as many perspectives as possible. There are lies coming from all sides, and any information offered up directly by either Russia or the allies of the Zelensky regime (most notably "western intelligence") is automatically propaganda. We need to listen to lots of different voices hoping to come upon at least a few speaking for reasons other than raw partisan gain.

I admit I don't know who this guy is. He himself acknowledges near the end of the video that his information can easily be dismissed as sounding like pro-Putin/pro-Russian propaganda.

But he looks in detail at two facts that all sides acknowledge: 1) Ukrainians are preventing the exit from the field of any man 18-60; 2) Ukrainians are giving out AKs to civilians telling them to defend their country.

Regarding the first point, he argues that the men from 18-60 are not running from the Russians - they are trying to escape the authorities forcefully conscripting them to fight in the Ukrainian army. I don't know this is true, but it is absolutely in keeping with human nature and with countless wars throughout human history. It is entirely believable.

Regarding the second point, the interpretation in this video is absolutely 100% correct. Giving military hardware to untrained civilians and sending them to fight trained soldiers is telling your population to go out and martyr themselves. Civilians carrying guns are unlikely to kill Russian soldiers operating in military formations. They are very likely themselves to be killed. Telling your civilian population to make martyrs of themselves is a militarily pointless waste of innocent life, and Zelensky should be condemned utterly for it. The west, however, is celebrating the move as a Hollywood plot.

One other interpretation I had not heard before now: he suggests that the Russians are not advancing at all costs when they meet resistance, and that this is intentional, because they don't want to create the mass casualties (military or civilian) this would require. This is an interpretation of Russian strategy I had not heard, explaining why the Russians are pulling back when they meet stiff resistance. In favor of this interpretation is the fact - again acknowledged by all sides - that Russians own the air. With absolute air superiority, Russians would be capable of inflicting incredible death very quickly if they so chose. That they don't do so argues for what this guy is saying.

A worthy watch. Thanks for this.

[–]BootsAndBeards 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You really have no idea how effective some local guys with rifles are against an invading army. Especially against Russia, which also operates with a draft with a ton of young men with questionable morale and experience. If any man in Ukraine does not want to fight they can quite literally just walk to occupied territory, it can be easily found to the North, South, and East. Even in Ukrainian propaganda and news reports you can see male civilians hiding in underground bunkers with women and children, I doubt they have enough arms to draft every male in that age even if they wanted to for the foreseeable future.

[–]raven9 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think those local guy's bravado will evaporate when their positions start getting ripped apart by the 30mm cannon that is mounted on the Russian APC's. They have no armour of their own, no command and control to provide air support or any kind of backup for that matter and I'd bet most of them have never even handled a rifle before never mind had time to learn how to use it accurately.

[–]neomarxist_bullshit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

1) Ukrainians are preventing the exit from the field of any man 18-60; 2) Ukrainians are giving out AKs to civilians telling them to defend their country.

Understandable. This is war.

[–]restlessincanada 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

ive been searching the internet for an explanation that makes sense for days. so far this is the best ive heard. really hoping that people will realize that nato is dangerous and has been working to create war and crisis for decades. the single greatest threat to world peace is nato.

[–]neomarxist_bullshit 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

the single greatest threat to world peace is nato.

how?

[–]restlessincanada 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

nato has doubled in size since the cold war ended expanding into eastern europe and along the russia border while the ussr has all but disapeared. the main deterrent at the end of the cold war for war and nuclear war between the superpowers was the promise of mutual destruction. but if nato is able to completely surround russia and build military bases and missile sites all along the russian border that deterrent will dissapear and leave russia at the mercy of america and its allies in western europe. russia does not want to live at the mercy of america and its allies in western europe anymore then america and its allies in western europe want to live at the mercy of russia, and russia does want america and western europe building military bases and missle sites along its borders anymore then america and its allies in western europe want russia building military bases and missile sites along thier borders. its not hard to see if you are making an honest effort that nato is the aggressor here and has been the aggressor for some time now. russia is reacting now to the expansion of nato the same way america reacted the the expansion of the ussr when it tried to force its way into cuba. nato should do now what the ussr did then, withdraw and begin slowly to dissolve so that the world is not forced to the brink of nuclear war a third time if we manage to avoid disaster here.

[–]neomarxist_bullshit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

but if nato is able to completely surround russia

Do you know how big country Russia is?

nato is the aggressor here

Are you actually fucking kidding me?

nato should do now what the ussr did then, withdraw and begin slowly to dissolve so that the world is not forced to the brink of nuclear war a third time if we manage to avoid disaster here.

Nah. As a citizen of a Central/Eastern European country I'm glad we are in NATO and if the Russian bear dares to put his nose where it doesn't belong, we'll kick his ass.

[–]restlessincanada 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

i think maybe nato is sticking its nose where it doesnt belong and whatever central european counrty you belong to you have no chance in this fight. the american people would be forced to kick its ass at a great cost to the people and soley for the benifit of a government that no longer serves the people. the fight for a pretend democracy in the ukrain is not worth the cost. let people who want freedom fight for it and secure it for themselves. i would not leave my family to fight and die for nothing on the otherside of the planet so that migrants who wont fight for themselves can take my place here.

[–]neomarxist_bullshit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

pretend democracy in the ukrain

What do you mean by "pretend democracy"?

let people who want freedom fight for it and secure it for themselves

That's what they're doing right now.

[–]jet199 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Those countries in Eastern Europe asked to be in NATO because of Russian aggression. In what way is that NATO sticking it's nose where it doesn't belong?

You really think those people in Eastern Europe are on the level of serfs who are owned by Russia and should have no rights of their own?

And, yeah, no one's asking you to fight. Is that what this is really about, you own fear for your insignificant life? Well the Ukrainians are fighting but still you'd happily throw them under the bus to cover up your own cowardice with whataboutery. Can't have them make you look in the mirror and get bad feelz, better to pretend they are evil.

[–]restlessincanada 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

maybe you need to stop projecting so much and learn to make arguments and accept or reject arguments based on merit and not how it makes you feel. i do not pretend that ukrainians are evil nor do i pretend that russians are evil. i have no more desire to kill russians then i do to kill ukrainians and i have no desire to police the rest of the world in the name of a government that does not respect my own rights. and yes if ukrain is calling for nato to fight, and they are, then they are calling on me to fight.

[–]Airbus320 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Cope

[–]UcDat[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/ukraine-president-agrees-hold-talks-without-preconditions-russia-belarus-border The mayor of Kiev Vitali Klitschko has declared that the capital city is now fully surrounded and under siege, preventing the possibility of civilians being evacuated.

When asked by press about emergency evacuation efforts, Mayor Klitschko responded: "We can't do that, because all ways are blocked," according to the AP. "Right now we are encircled."