all 57 comments

[–]magnora7 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (19 children)

Revolutions are very fickle. It's very easy to get hoisted on one's petard if one wants "a revolution" without any additional stipulations, as you pointed out.

Non-violent protest is the only way to have a revolution without it feeding in to a civil war scenario that would benefit the military-industrial complex with massive arms sales.

And even then it can be hijacked, and everyone with any power will be trying to do so. It's definitely something to look out for.

[–]wizzwizz4 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

Just make non-violence the central idea of your cult. People will band around it, and no matter how Right and Useful violence becomes people will reject it outright.

Even if violence actually becomes the right thing to do, people will still reject it in this case.

[–]sodasplash 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (8 children)

There’s already an entire religion for that. It’s called the society of friends. To the society of friends, there is literally never a time when violence is the right thing to do. During most times that the US had a draft, being a Quaker was the only sure way to obtain consciencious objector status.

When a settlement of Quakers heard that there was a Native American tribe heading to slaughter them for something they hadn’t done in a case of mistaken identity, the Quakers all gathered to sit silently to pray, as is their typical form of worship.

The natives entered the meeting house where the Quakers were gathered. Seeing them sitting silently and non-reactive, the natives knew they had the wrong group and left.

Quakers are called such because in their silent meetings for worship, those who go into the most deeply meditative state can be known to quake slightly. In practices such as yoga, this type of shaking is known to release tensions, anger, grief, and other unexpressed or bottled up feelings.

Quaker quaking is not to be confused with the shaking of Shakers. Shakers shook purposefully to do the same thing but were more demonstrative in their shaking as it came from a purposeful state and not a meditative one. Also, the Skakers refused to procreate so they all died out. But they did make really great furniture, which is what they’re most known for historically.

[–]wizzwizz4 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

There’s already an entire religion for that. It’s called the society of friends.

Can't we just make another one? The more the merrier.

[–]sodasplash 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh, we already have. It's called Copianism.

We celebrate ALL the holidays!

[–]Zombi 3 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 4 fun -  (5 children)

I'm too stupid to know if you're bullshitting or not.

[–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I've never heard of the Shakers before, but apparently he's correct: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shakers

[–]sodasplash 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

jesus christ, people don't even know the difference between Quakers and Shakers any longer. holy fuck.

[–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

No I've just never heard of Shakers at all until this

[–]sodasplash 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They are fascinating.

Basically, what happens to people when they don't have sex but make great furniture.

https://www.dezeen.com/2017/03/01/shaker-style-back-designers-celebrate-first-minimalists-design-furniture-homeware/

[–]sodasplash 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This is correct.

[–]the-ham-bummer 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

What if this non violence is promoted to ensure the violent side wins?

[–]wizzwizz4 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

That's why you need the press. Violence is generally considered bad, and violence attacking non violence is generally considered very bad, so having the press reporting on the violent side attacking the non violent side means that, whilst winning the battle, the violent side will lose the war of public opinion.

The press + cult-like behaviour serves as a solution to the Prisoner's Dilemma of Violence.

[–]sodasplash 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

First of all, fuck the press.

There is no “Prisoner’s Dilemma” of violence.

The prisoner’s dilemma refers to game theory and is also at its essence the basis of even the most minute biological interaction.

Violence loses. It is always selected against. It always has been and it always will be. Read up on Spiral Dynamics.

[–]wizzwizz4 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Violence loses, yes, but in many situations it's the strictly dominant strategy. Just because it produces worse outcomes doesn't mean it isn't what people will end up doing.

[–]sodasplash 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

You completely fail to understand the prisoner’s dilemma.

[–]wizzwizz4 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Could you explain it to me, then? One of us is wrong, and while I'm assuming it's not me I've been wrong before.

[–]sodasplash 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Maybe you could explain what you mean by Prisoner’s Dilemma of violence. Perhaps I am misunderstanding you.

[–]wizzwizz4 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The best outcome is mutual peace. However, the first defecting party – the first to use violence – gets a better position, and the only action that the other party can take is to also defect, until they're both violent. This is worse for both parties than both being peaceful, but it's strictly dominant.

Is this model inaccurate?

[–]d3rr 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Do we have the willpower to not support the MIC? Our bank accounts, purchases, and 401ks all perpetuate the violent status quo.

[–]sodasplash 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

Join Robinhood and WSB and just yolo a bunch of FD's. Die or win trying.

Honestly, though, I think this is why Trump is so brilliant and Liberals are so stupid for fighting him and thinking he's stupid. We HAVE to go to space. It's absolutely BRILLIANT to divert the military industrial complex to space.

Hell yeah I support the military industrial complex -- IN SPACE.

[–]d3rr 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Hhahaa that sounds fun. The approach I have in mind though is following in the footsteps of some religious groups in the US and refusing to invest in war. The old socially responsible investing thing. There are ways to bring it to the individual level.

https://njjewishnews.timesofisrael.com/abusing-socially-responsible-investing-to-attack-israel/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinvestment_from_Israel#Disinvestment_efforts

[–]sodasplash 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, I fully support people being aware of where they expenditures and investments go. It’s amazing to me when people don’t even think two steps down the line.

[–]Jesus[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Liberals as democrates today are not really liberals. The are neo liberals, modern liberals, not the classical liberals that have advocated for free markets in the 19th and 19th centuries. We have neoliberal freemarkets now, which means deregulation by regulation, if that makes any sense.

NASA is just an arm of the military. But most of the money probably goes to weaponizing space and puttign more suviellance tech into space. And for other weapon projects.

[–]sodasplash 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

well, American "liberals" have always been different from "liberals" of classical economics

in the classical economic sense, "liberals" in the john smith, invisible hand sense want to open markets and expand the inter-connectivity of the world

In America, "Liberals" are communists, who in a classical economic sense are conservative. But this is far too difficult for most to understand.

[–]Jesus[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

You're conflating a bunch of terms together and generalizing. Can you be a bit more specific.

[–]sodasplash 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I’m actually being way more specific than you.

[–]Jesus[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If we learn how to become a community and work at local levels through sustainable farming and barter than yes, we would be ready.

[–]Vigte 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

How a secret and more powerful right wing clone of the CFR controls conspiracy culture, conservatives and christians - propelling them toward a new world order through fear, prophecy and false heroes who lead you away from the puppet master controlling them.

(I dont wan't to spoil the fun of you finding out how heavily the right-wing is controlled - but let's just say: if the left and all its conspiracy groups (CFR for example) are "degenerate communist leftists" - then this secret right, would be "neo-nazism led by ancient blood-line families like the Bushes, etc")

It doesn't matter which side wins in the future, because the elite will still win the most, if violence is involved.

[–]HopeThatHalps 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

If the Tiki torch militia taught us anything, it's that any revolution will involve more TV reporters and camera men than it will soldiers.

[–]sodasplash 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

To paraphrase Shakespeare (lest anyone think I'm actually promoting violins since this is the internet after all and everyone on it loses 20 IQ points by default): "First let's kill all the news reporters." /s

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Still, most people are confusing peace with apathy the most time of their life.

[–]Jesus[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I agree 100%. Universal apathy with conforming ignorance is a trend in a dying society.

[–]Timmy 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

The problems are created and perpetuated by the elite 1%, who enjoy watching us fight generationally. Anyone thinking revolution needs to remember what happened before the French revolution. We're being pitted against each other, by the puppets in power, while the globalists enjoy the show.

[–]HeyImSancho 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think all we can hope to be is change on our own personal level, for our own development; let that be the outward change. Groups, and crowds make up revolutions, and they're easily controlled.

I've always joked that when the shtf, I'll be at the start, right with the crowd screaming for blood, while slowly backing away there from, and once far enough, to run; anywhere is better than the group mind-sink.

The cabal has done wonders with putting into place, all sorts of demographically opposed, or different groups all in the same areas; any violence would end in chaos; which always feeds back to the rich getting richer, while the rest starve.

[–]Jesus[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you've noticed millions of people, most notably in the younger generation think capitalism is bad and socialism should replace it. REAL CAPITALISM, with Adam Smith's free markets, is not what they have in the US but millions do not make that distinction; the distinction between crony-capitalism (ultimately corporatocracy) and free market capitalism as Smith designed.

Instead, I see our younger generation prasing the likes of Lenin and Trotsky.

[–]PikonParadox 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

You cannot win a psychological warfare with physical violence.

We gotta be absolutely clear about what exactly we want in both short term and long term, how best we can get it, and what we should avoid in order to block the enemy from taking advantage.

[–]sodasplash 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Robespierre led a Revolution and then his own revolution killed him (thus ending the revolution, mercifully). I mean sinking barges full of people in the river is Terrorizing, no matter how right a revolution thinks it is.

Also, so many people calling for "revolution" are either shills or other black hats.

A friend of a friend (and every time that friend brings that friend around I always cringe and ask why) was rattling on today about how Russia wants to destabilize the US and wouldn't it be terrible if the Russians installed a puppet government and the US became allies with Russia and, and, and...

I hate to paint all leftists with the same brush but jesus do people like that give them a bad name. I can only imagine what a terrible world it would be if the US and Russia were allies... /s But the left is absolutely the one bootstepping the US toward tyranny right now. Maybe it's simply the job of party out of power to do that.

Anyway, glad I get to come here and vent, even that's probably no better an idea, but at least when I hear this shit IRL I get to just smile and say, "Nope," and then they just look at me all weird like why don't I want what they want.

A friend of mine the other day told me I should listen to the Beatles and I told another friend of mine that and we had a good laugh. But maybe I should just carry around a little tape of the Beatles' Revolution and play it every time someone says some crazy political shit to me (which is basically all of it these days).

[–]Jesus[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I notice a lot of the people calling for a revolution always do the communist hand gesture or sometimes, the mao hand gesture, where two hands are raised as fists. And socialism seems like a great alternative because of the propagandizing of our youth but as we know, no matter the change in system, the elites will still be at its helm.

But the left is absolutely the one bootstepping the US toward tyranny

The right is too!

And the left and right axis term mean nothing. Our state, whether a Rebuplican administration or Democrat administration has signed executive orders, covert presidential policy directives that completely collectivize farming and state monopolize telecommunications, transportation etc,. They are not in use but they are all written into law and will be used when a revolution comes or when the economy collapses, unintentional or not.

From the 9/11 false flag demolitions, to the increasing suviellance apparatus, from the NDAA 2012 passed by Obama and Trump, to the Patriot act, the DHS PSYOPS, the SMith Mundt Modernization Act of 2012, all of these bills are just the hairbinger rto tyranny. And a mock democracy always leads to tyranny eventually.

Of course a cozy relationship with Russia would not be bad at all, even if she is authoritarian. The reason? Because the future will be a multilateral economic order with Russia, China, Iran, teh Middleeast and Israel at the helm. If we try to fight them we will end up a third world country. If we create a geopolitical friendship and get a stake in the Belt Road Inititive, at least we will not be left in the dust. But the geographics do not really allign with Europe nor the BRIC countries who will benefit from the Belt Road Inititive. Europe would rather get her energy from the east than have the US bring LNG over by ship.

[–]the-ham-bummer 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The difference between the left and the right is the granularity of the tiranny they want to impose. National granularity for the right, international granularity for the left. Both helped the zionist agenda, btw.

[–]sodasplash 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

hello, fellow dirt bag centrist

[–]Jesus[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Hello ad hominem shill.

[–]sodasplash 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Mr Strawman, my olde fren.

[–]Jesus[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Well, I don't know if you're a shill but you're spewing ad hominems. Why am I a so called centrist and dirt bag. Which kind of dirt am I?

[–]sodasplash 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Where I come from, dirtbag centrist is a compliment, not an ad hominem. I’m sorry you misunderstood, internet fren.

[–]sawboss 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

[–]Broken-needles350 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

wrong answer, you gotta fight to defend or reclaim your rights.

you cant be a pacifist and let them do anything and everything to you

[–]Jesus[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Of course you do, but it all starts with peace, diplomacy and non-violence as well as protest. If our government decides to drone bomb a peaceful protest than we are obviously allowed to defend ourselves, but that alone would bring about civil war. A war that could lead to a hegelian dialectic situation. Look at the Bolshevik revolution for reference. That's why I'm saying to be aware of those calling for revolutions.

[–]the-ham-bummer 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If our government decides to drone bomb a peaceful protest than we are obviously allowed to defend ourselves

But the government will never do that. They will do like in the past, having terrorists (fascists, commies, ISIS, whatever) take the blame and prevent counter strikes. Terrorism is newspeak for terror and terror is an age old way for THOSE ALREADY IN POWER to maintain it. Terror cannot work if you don't already wield enough power because nobody likes to submit to violent people if another choice is feasible.

[–]happysmash27 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I believe in a libertarian revolution, and don't see how that can beg for government tyranny. Also, can't a revolution be non-violent?

[–]Jesus[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes, it can be non-violent. Iceland had a revolution after the 2008 collapse. Many of the bankers were jaield or kicked out of the country. Foreign investors, were furious. In Latvia, the US, Ireland and everywhere else they bailed out the banks with taxpayer money. And yet, the teaxpayer is like okay, whatever, at least we don't have a welfare state, right? But we do, a welfare state for the 1%.

[–]the-ham-bummer 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Foreign investors, were furious.

Sure they were, they wanted to pull a Greece.

[–]the-ham-bummer 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Revolution in astronomy means: a big ass tour round something else and you end up exactly where you started. Revolution in politics means exactly the same.

Obviously, the social unrest we are experiencing is artificial. The surveillance state has been in the works for decades, but there is no way people will submit to it without being scared into it. Whether the right or the left or fake Christianity or actual Islam manages to pull it off, it does not matter. I suggest to consider the amount of control you have of your own life as the indicator of your servitude. Whoever wants to increase such control is evil, whoever wants to decrease it is either using you or good. I also suggest to do something to increase your own control. Knowing a trade, networking with people not over ideology but over basic needs. Getting informed or typing here must not be the only avenue of rebellion, because unorganized grassroot protest never accomplished anything by itself. Always a tool in the hands of organized guys. For instance, do you really think that all those French revolution phrygian caps were the idea of the poor oppressed illiterate masses?

[–]Jesus[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

French revolution phrygian caps were the idea of the poor oppressed illiterate masses?

^ ^ I know what you mean... Yeah, a trade. Permaculture and farming. THough, they make is hard to get anywhere with farming due to how expensive land and tools have become. Plus all the permits involved.

[–]send_nasty_stuff 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

r/200acres

[–]Snow 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Non-violence and peace is not the answer,there is no answer,this world is hell.