all 8 comments

[–]Wrangel 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

We have a false dichotomy between individualism and big state socialism. I don't want a big state and I don't want to be an individualist. The natural units are families, tribes, congregations, communities, villages etc.

[–]PeddaKondappa[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Right. In fact, a massive, intrusive socialist state can only exist if it rules over an agglomeration of severely atomized individuals, for whom even intimate family ties are subordinated to the Party and State (hence the tyrannical doctrine, propagated in certain states, of encouraging loved ones to spy on each other and act as informants). A massive, intrusive socialist state cannot exist in a highly collectivist society that is tightly organized along kinship, communal, and/or congregational lines. In such a society, any state structure would be necessarily constrained, and cannot act arbitrarily or tyrannically due to fear of retribution by those tightly organized social groups.

[–]Nombre27 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We're headed to an all against all totalitarianism situation with the Covid slope. Just 2 weeks, just 2 months, just 6 months, just this, just that. Most people don't realize the gradualism because the last mandate is now ingrained and performed unconsciously.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]Nombre27 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Well said.

    At the macro level, you can kind of see that we stopped pursuing excellence after the moon landings and instead chose to spoil our surplus on destructive policies like welfare, foreign aid, wars, etc. Really makes me wonder if we're going down from a peak that we'll never have the opportunity to reach again. There's something to be said about the efficiency gained from industrialization, but I fear that we may have exploited and exhausted fossil fuels in the pursuit of wasteful activities instead of building the next step of civilization.

    [–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Very insightful. Fukuyama has many interesting points, even though he is also wrong on a lot (I definitely disagree with the notion that liberal democratic market capitalism is the final stage of social evolution as he stated in his most famous essay).

    Individualism is clearly something that arises when relative comfort from natural competition is secured and what he calls "communal instincts" are satisfied, as he says "individualism seems today like a solid core of our economic and political behavior is only because we have developed institutions that override our more naturally communal instincts", allowing those within such a society to move away from their satisfied needs derived from social cooperation to pursue their personal interests. This is why the most individualistic, utilitarian, liberal societies on Earth are usually homogeneous nations (just look at this list, the top countries include ethnically homogeneous states like Iceland, Japan and Ireland the bottom-countries are multiethnic and multicultural like the Central African Republic or South Sudan), there is little communal competition within them and they can feel secure in sharing resources. However, individualism ends up causing a decadence of sorts really because it is unravelling of the acquired communal safety-net as the new sense of individual self-interest ends up creating a new internal competition for resources and wishes to break up traditions (regulations) which uphold the social order ending in the degrading of the cooperative safety-net (dare I say the breaking of the "social contract").

    [–]Nombre27 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Very interesting. Sounds similar to the broken window fallacy. Resources are diverted to non-productive activities which demand more and more resources in order to operate, eventually exhausting the principle.

    [–]DisgustResponse 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Have you read this essay by Ted K?

    He makes a strong case that primitive man was much more individualistic and selfish than modern man, who has become extremely cooperative. For example, primitive warfare is completely unorganized. Although they fight as groups, there is no organization or tactics. Every man fights for himself, only coming to the aid of his comrades at his own personal inclination. Very similar to how chimpanzees hunt and fight.

    [–]Nombre27 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Sounds like a terrible strategy. Not surprising it's in the dustbin of history.