all 18 comments

[–]AcceleratedWallops 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

The logical leaps in this....oof.

The most obvious one: you praise Chinese autocracy while also denouncing Mao. So yes, while the "benevolent king" archetype is the "easiest" form of government, the problem lies in what happens when your king is no longer benevolent--"lunacy" as you called it. And from history we know that this happens eventually to a society with certainty.

The whole point of Western democracy is to reduce the concentration of power to prevent that lunacy.

two corporate puppets every four years.

And here you point out our current problem. Despite our elaborate system of checks and balances, government power in the US is currently very concentrated. Your proposed solution is to concentrate it even further? Ridiculous.

While many of your complaints are valid, your conclusion is way off the mark.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Procedural checks and balances are ineffective and many eventually become near-impossible to implement. They also become useless once social dynamics change, sure the Democrats "adhere" to the Constitution but they are not Originalists (not that I would care, I don't care much for the Constitution). It is better to have a more practical system of checks and balances, such as an ideologically-loyal military or allowing the people to be armed.

[–]AcceleratedWallops 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

How would you maintain ideology in the military? That's just the same problem but with guns and camo.

Don't forget that the Supreme Court is supposed to be "ideologically loyal" (via lifetime appointments) and is now heavily politicized, as well as the Senate (originally supposed to be "the best of the best" appointed by States), now corrupt corporatists. (Seriously some of the comments about the Senate in the Federalist Papers are just funny to read nowadays.)

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How would you maintain ideology in the military? That's just the same problem but with guns and camo.

In the Middle East and Latin America, it is usually done by just not having civilian control of the military and making sure all the high-ranks and all the officer training schools are packed with ideological loyalists so you have a "deep state"/"state within a state" (originally meaning of the term was for right-wing military staffs during the Cold War). Of course, it is a very risky strategy and requires civilian control in the first place then relinquishing it.

Also, ye I've read parts of the Federalist Papers and it's kinda amusing what the different state of the things they proposed it now!

[–]FriedrichLudwig 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

(Long reply, might turn into a post) I think proposing monarchy over fascism as a viable alternative to democracy for normiecons has some potential. The average conservative has a visceral knee-jerk negative reaction to fascism/national socialism etc. due to the way WW2 has been framed as "true American democracy vs evil foreign fascism" (I have some problems with those ideologies myself for other reasons), plus the way nativism and anti-mass immigration views are paralleled with Hitler's anti-Jewish policies.

Sure, anti-monarchism is also deep-seated in the American founding mythos due to the way the American Revolution has been framed as democracy vs monarchy, but more time passed since then, and the concept of brave American patriots fighting an evil king is becoming increasingly associated with the right rather than being as universal as anti-Nazism, partly due to the left's slow but steady efforts at demonizing the founders, traditional concepts of personal liberty and the entire American historical tradition. But it ultimately comes down to the fact that most people don't have an instinctive hatred of monarchy like they do with the other systems. You have far-leftists who hate it due to their radical egalitarian views, and a lot of right-wingers due to the modern British monarchy's association with the global elites (imo the entire banker class/globohomo started because of Britain's greed, but I think the political class contributed more to it that the monarchy), conspiracy theories about them being pedophiles etc., but most normies are just "eh, it's kind of outdated" about it.

Plus there's many more examples of monarchical systems throughout history, and it has demonstrably worked for the majority of human history. You could even argue the middle class, meritocracy-based governments and the reduction in the traditional class gap came as a result of absolute monarchs wanting to create a new political base separate from the nobility to help them centralize power. There are also some good libertarian arguments in favor of monarchy, from Hans-Hermann Hoppe and this.

You just have to find a way to frame monarchism in a way that convinces normiecons that it's the best way to secure the traditional values they cherish compared to democracy. Also, red pilling them on the fact that the founders were not as anti-monarchy as they've been taught, and how most unjust actions King George III has been accused of were a result of the British Parliament usurping a lot of the king's authority. And of course, as you said, demonstrating that what we call today democracy is just a system for the elites to secure power and control and hide behind a system. Pretty much every pro-democracy outcome in recent history was instigated by, and benefited, the elites. And your argument about democracy in its current form weakening nations is also a good tool to use.

Another argument: You mention the people of western countries not being consulted about a lot of nation-changing and harmful policies that have been instituted by their leaders, despite supposedly living in democracies. If you look at how monarchies lost power in the past 200 years, most of that was not legitimate either. Just like mass immigration and bank bailouts, there was never a national conversation about them, just a class of elites consolidating their power and imposing their agenda. Check out Emperor Pedro II of Brazil, King Gustav III of Sweden, King Constantine II of Greece, or King Umberto II of Italy (hell, the referendum to remove him was practically rigged), their overthrows and replacement with republics/ceremonial monarchies were totally illegitimate, and only became normalized in the public's mind because of the passage of time and victors writing the history.

[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Check out Emperor Pedro II of Brazil, King Gustav III of Sweden, King Constantine II of Greece, or King Umberto II of Italy

I know about Emperor Pedro of Brazil, he oversaw a Golden age for the country and was wildly popular among the people. However the military decided that they preferred a republican dictatorship. It was his fault for not seriously opposing it and in fact giving power up willingly. I don't know about the others though.

The biggest problem in the 19th century and early 20th century and today is the cult of progress. People associated liberalism and democracy with rising life standards and technological progress. It seemed as the way to go, the inevitable step and monarchy was just a relic of the old world, destined to die along side the Church.

Little did they know that a 120 years later, the people in their country would be mutilating little children, allowing abortion till the moment of birth and worshiping sodomy and Blacks.

They mistakenly associated technological growth spurred by centralization of power, and steady build up of knowledge with liberalism. This was mostly due to the immense prestige of Britain in that era. Britain controlled a quarter of the world and a quarter of its trade. The Royal navy was almost as strong as the rest of the world's navies combined. People aped the successful country's system, as they always do. Its just like how Rome adopted the Hoplite formation after seeing Alexander's stunning victories.

or how Northern Europeans and Poles adopted Christianity after seeing the splendor and power of the Frankish Empire.

[–]Alan_Crowe 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The killer problem with Monarchy is the stupid eldest son. He inherits the throne and governs badly. Or does he? Some of history involves improvised solutions to this problem. But when the times comes to improvise a solution, there are usually several factions involved "fighting" for their own candidate. Historically the "fighting" turns into literal fighting, with a substantial death toll.

I like the idea of the Rotating Triple Crown. I see it as involving complicated procedures. It is not the kind of thing that could have worked in historical Kingdoms. But now-a-days we are used to complicated procedures for succession. It could work well in the twenty-first century.

[–]Nasser 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Post in r/ChangeMyView

[–]Tarrock 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The last 12 years has really shown me that a Monarchy or a Plutocracy is really the way to go. While I don't agree with the politics of Jeff Bezos and I Elon Musk stays out of politics as far as I can tell, if someone who actually had some business sense had complete control over everything, then shit would change fast.

The problem right now is how much bloat there is in government. Take for example that guy in the DoD that was lying to Trump on the number of troops we had in the middle east so he wouldn't withdrawal them. That guy should've been hung for treason. I remember there was this I think Indian guy on the Joe Rogan and he asked Joe "Do you know who the Head Security of the Department of Commerce is?" or something like that. Joe of course was like hell no, then he explained that these people you've never heard of are extremely important in order to get your agenda done and if this guy isn't playing ball, he can essentially sabotage EVERY SINGLE branch of government. Shit like that shouldn't happen. And let's not forget how the CIA and FBI are organizations that only appeared in the last 80-110 years and only exist to cause chaos, and create the problems that they then use to justify their own existence. Neither has ANY accountability to the American people.

It is actually in the law that the regions that immigrants are getting mass dumped in are supposed to vote if they want them, but this never happens. Instead politicians have figured out that they can just mass dump immigrants in an area to change the voting demographics. Go look at AOC's district, that's an amazing example. Look at the % of white people when the guy she primared first got in, then look at when AOC kicked him out. When whitey is no longer the majority, it's time to get whitey out.

Also fucking foreign aid. It needs to stop completely. How much money do we give to Ethiopia to stop them from fucking starving? 3.5 billion from all over the world. Here's a chart showing their population in 1950 and going to today along with projected numbers They were starving when we started giving them aid, and now they're starving now with more mouths to feed! In 70 years, their population increased by 4 times! If you're barely starving, you have more kids, then there's more mouths to feed, which causes everyone to starve more. It's a fucking never-ending cycle,

[–]aukofthecovenantWhite man with eyes 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you're barely starving, you have more kids, then there's more mouths to feed, which causes everyone to starve more. It's a fucking never-ending cycle,

The cycle only breaks when/if the child produces more than he consumes. Wherever that is not the case, all the aid in the world will amount to nothing.

[–][deleted]  (11 children)

[deleted]

    [–]AcceleratedWallops 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

    Liberalism (aka rule by the financial elites).

    Nope.

    [–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Liberalism was always designed to serve business interests from the very beginning. It is the "dictatorship of the bourgeoisie," which both Communism and Fascism arose to combat.

    [–]AcceleratedWallops 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Where did you find this definition of liberalism?

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I'm paraphrasing Lenin here.

    [–][deleted]  (6 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]AcceleratedWallops 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

      Oligarchy.

      [–][deleted]  (4 children)

      [deleted]

        [–]AcceleratedWallops 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

        Thought exercise: how much power could a company owned by a single individual, or a partnership, realistically acquire? Is oligarchy fostered by private ownership, or by the construct known as the corporation?

        [–][deleted]  (2 children)

        [deleted]

          [–]AcceleratedWallops 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

          My point is, are your problems with liberalism or actually with corporatism?

          [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

          What would you ideally replace it with?