Is there any truth to the nazi eugenics programs?

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[–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The Euthanasia program was definitely real but it was limited and largely unpopular so it was discontinued. There's all sorts of stupid and lurid claims usually on the level of bear vs eagle fights but as a country from what I know their attempt at eugenics wasn't fantastical or anything it was much like the American program.

With people like that you should always ask them to show you what they're talking about and go from there. A lot of people have really vague and stupid Hollywood style impressions about the period that aren't true.

Another tactic I guess is just to openly say 'Yes the Nazis were attempting via eugenics to improve their population. What of it?' Maybe pepper in a few DR3 style arguments about how the whole thing was actually a progressive obsession in the early 20th century if they're idiots -- that's a shitty conservative tactic though.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Another tactic I guess is just to openly say 'Yes the Nazis were attempting via eugenics to improve their population. What of it?' Maybe pepper in a few DR3 style arguments about how the whole thing was actually a progressive obsession in the early 20th century if they're idiots -- that's a shitty conservative tactic though.

I remember Richard Dawkins caught flak for pointing out Eugenics is used all the time and widely accepted for raising farm animals, so why can't we breed humans who could run faster as well?

https://twitter.com/richarddawkins/status/1228943686953664512?lang=en

[–]MarkimusNational Socialist 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Not really no, the closest thing that existed was a euthanisation program that was discontinued after 2 years because it was unpopular.

During war time they started euthanising people who were severely ill, mentally or physically, as well as the disabled that were beyond a point of functionality. This was to ration resources better and based on the idea that these people were basically just a drain and couldn't contribute to society. This program was called Aktion T4, it started in 1939 and ended in 1941 although fake history pretends it continued 'covertly' which is like all the claims of the holocaust IE they have no evidence for it they just tell you it definitely happened. The Third Reich cared a lot about public perception and being democratic so if shit was unpopular they just didn't do it, Aktion T4 was one of these unpopular things they stopped doing because they respected and enacted the will of the people.

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    [–]literalotherkinNorm MacDonald Nationalism 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    I haven't read it and I've only heard it discussed but Lothrop Stoddard's book Into The Darkness might be a good place to start. It's his personal obervations in the late 30's and early 40's of Nazi Germany. Obviously it's from a pro-eugenics guy and from what I've read about it he was actually disappointed by the tameness of the eugenics efforts in Germany which is a funny thing to point out to a normie.

    CODOH has a good little write up about it: https://codoh.com/library/document/veteran-american-journalist-provides-valuable/en/

    [–]MarkimusNational Socialist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    Strike and Mike discussed Lothrop Stoddard and that book recently, they were pretty critical of him though calling him a sperg and shit. You might be interested if you didn't catch it already.

    [–]DragonerneJesus is white 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Its enemy rhetoric to call allies "spergs" and other names.

    [–]MarkimusNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    He's not your ally, he's dead, and his racial ideology stuff was objectively autistic/spergy. Nothing wrong with saying things how they are.

    [–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    I am curious, what was he criticised for? From what little I know of him, he did seem to have at least some of the traits of a racist liberal, so I am assuming it had something to do with that.

    [–]MarkimusNational Socialist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Naughty pirated paywall content, they start talking about Stoddard at 3:07:15.

    Basically he was just an anglophile who was criticising pan-Germanism for being imperialist because not all Germans have the same race in the Nordicist sense, his critique of jews was that they're partly black nothing to do with jewry, he saw everything through this racial lens which was more about looks, and judgments and categorisations of behaviour rather than political considerations, he went to the Third Reich and was criticising them for not sterilising people. He apparently would make comments in his memoirs about how the SS wasn't serious because they weren't Nordic enough for him because some people would have brown hair and be short and shit lmao.

    He wasn't a racist libtard how we understand them, he was even more anti-unity and power. His argument was basically the proto-'don't be white, be a (country) nationalist' but back then it was 'don't be a German nationalist, be a Nordic, Alpine, Dinaric etc racist'.

    [–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I think Stoddard's Nordicism was a political project too, it just doesn't seem like it because our political environment is so different from his. Back then, state borders still mattered in regards to policy and the topic of race was considered from the perspective of the biological and psychological traits that racialists considered responsible for civilisation. Today, it doesn't matter if you're born in Spain or Germany, since it's the same neoliberal shit everywhere and race is almost exclusively discussed in regards to mass immigration. With that said, as far as I am concerned, Stoddard also subscribed to Anglo-Saxon ideas of liberty, development and progress, which definitely impacted his worldview. His personal character also seems to me to have been a bit strange. His complaints about lack of sterilisations seem like a good example of that.

    [–]MarkimusNational Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I haven't read anything about it, I've heard people talking about it on podcasts a few times. I think David Irving talks about it in Hitler's War; I would recommend Codoh and Institute for Historical Review generally for anything Holocaust related, AxisHistory forum has some good stuff too.

    [–]NeoRail 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    There was a racialist and a nationalist camp in the NSDAP, which somewhat opposed each other on the eugenics issue. If you look at racialist literature from the time - for example, something like Grant's Passing of the Great Race - only the Northern parts of Germany were considered Nordic. The racialists and Nordicists were more concerned about the internal demographics of Germany and were more invested in the eugenics issue, whereas the German nationalists were more egalitarian. Eventually, the conflict was resolved in favour of the nationalists. Consequently, eugenics played a more limited role. I think the SS, for example, had certain additional biological requirements, but I am not aware of any measures to Nordicise the general population on behalf of the German state.