I find it difficult to morally blame Reagan for Afghanistan

submitted by Salos60000Pragmatic European Nationalism from self.debatealtright

This is something I've been thinking about in regards to how there's alot of blame being attached to Reagan and 80s US for backing the Mujahadeen which later became the Taliban. But thinking about it, wouldn't Reagan's actions be an inverse of Vietnam that the left loves to demonize us on.

We backed a nationalist liberation movement against a totalitarian,foreign backed regime that the populace hated. The communist regime violently couped and took power from the previous government.

So whenever you see some leftoid trying to pull the guilt tripping blame game in order to manipulate Whites into taking in hundreds of thousands of Afghan refugees. Use this as a counter.

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[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter 5 insightful - 4 fun5 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 4 fun -  (3 children)

How would you feel about shoving a dildo up your ass? I hear its a conservative value nowadays

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Our precious way of life.

[–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Its who we are.

[–]Blackbrownfreestuff 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

LOL at radicalfag replying to salos. He must be bored.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

shoulda just let russia have afghanistant

don't invade vietnam and don't arm rebels that wouldn't fight without the aid. Let the world go socialist. Conservatives always say it fails. What if it only fails because we sabotage it?

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Reagan was literally the worst president in US history.

[–]FrenologistSaving the World 1 Cranial Exam at a Time 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Reagan was much like Trump--too trusting of his advisors. Reagan took the advice of literally every larping conservative thinktank (same as Trump). Even if we manage to put a real patriot into the presidency it doesn't matter because the entire apparatus is corrupt. The globalist control mechanism is pretty simple--it's comprised of intergovernmental organizations, thinktanks, NGOs and corporations. The thinktanks provide the vision for global policy planning and pass it on to the politicians of their various host countries. The Council of 300 > Club of Rome > UN/NATO > Atlantic Council/Council on Foreign Relations > The Heritage Foundation (and many more)

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Reagan was much worse than Trump. A lot of the pathologies that have destroyed the US started under Reagan.

[–]FrenologistSaving the World 1 Cranial Exam at a Time 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The key to understanding the Reagan admin is to understand who was whispering in his ear. Every bad decision and policy that his admin made was made based on suggestions from these fake conservative thinktanks.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Wall Street.

[–]FrenologistSaving the World 1 Cranial Exam at a Time 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

You need to go deeper. Wall Street is a surface-layer.

[–]Salos60000Pragmatic European Nationalism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_United_States_presidential_election

You were saying?

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Back then, there was a real fear that the Soviet Union (and by proxy, Communism) was going to envelope the world and threaten our way of life.

But, you want to know something? The way the Soviets had expanded predates Afghanistan. Go back as early as 1917 and the October Revolution, the Soviets already had their eyes on foreign countries Poland, the Baltics, Finland etc.

Stalin, bizarrely enough, was almost a bit of a good guy. Since he was the only Soviet leader who opposed exporting his own country's politics, that a certain Leon Trotsky would have done if he had power instead. We then had WW2 where Germany & The Axis where the only ones who tried to put an actual stop to Soviet influence, by trying to conquer them entirely. But unfortunately, when the Axis failed, it left behind the power vacuum where now both the USA and USSR hated each other, but the threat of nukes prevented them from settling their differences in an all out invasion of one another.

Long story short, the Cold War was a symptom of previous failures of not neutering the Soviet's ability to project power much earlier. To Reagan, it obviously looked good to support any enemy that the Soviets hated, but now that the USSR is dead, we are left behind with their mess that our current rulers still don't know how to approach the subject rationally. Like the way Trump & Biden forced a pull out meant that Afghanistan was always going to collapse and be retaken by the Taliban. However, the speedy withdrawal has once again, fucked us over, because the same Afghans are crying they don't want to live in their own country anymore, and are trying to demand "refugee" status in the West.

[–]FrenologistSaving the World 1 Cranial Exam at a Time 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The fear of communism was never real (at least not real for Western leaders and militaries). The fear was engineered for the populace. If the fear of communism was real why did the Allies fight with the USSR against Japan and Germany and why did the USA proceed to carve up Eastern Europe in a fashion extremely favorable to the USSR? If the Western World truly feared communism why did it turn its back on Rhodesia while the USSR and China openly funded/trained communist armies in Africa which, were then used to seize control of Rhodesia?

The truth is that communism has and always will be a mechanism used by the globalist elites to destroy wealthy/successful nations so that the wealth can be looted into the coffers of the globalist bankers. The Russian Empire was one of the wealthiest, industrialized nations in the world and the bankers used communism to destroy and loot it. They're doing exactly the same here in the USA. Sometimes the communist infiltration doesn't work as planned and a nationalist/fascist movement takes its place (see Nazi Germany) but, their Plan B is always a united front (global) against the nationalist threat.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The fear of communism was never real (at least not real for Western leaders and militaries). The fear was engineered for the populace. If the fear of communism was real why did the Allies fight with the USSR against Japan and Germany and why did the USA proceed to carve up Eastern Europe in a fashion extremely favorable to the USSR?

You're ignoring too many variables. At the start of WW2, both Germany and the USSR had made a secret agreement to invade and take over Poland. Trying to fight both countries at the same time may have put off Germany's plans to actually invade the Soviets since the agreement didn't stop there (for a time, they were receiving food and other raw materials as part of the deal).

In actuality, the USSR didn't become part of the allies until 1941, when Hitler had launched his Eastern front invasion, while already taking over Western Europe as well.

In regards to why did the U.S let Eastern Europe get carved up? It was the Soviets who were crazy enough to throw endless amounts of bodies at the German machine. The race to Berlin was basically one big propaganda stunt by two Soviet generals to claim victory over Germany, even if the logistics of doing so was heavily rushed.

I'd like to think the allies wanted to do more back then, but they were already fighting a war on multiple fronts on every continent. It's all hindsight to say they could have also finished off Communism in the 6 years they were at war with other nations. Especially when the Soviet Army saw massive increases during this same time period as well.

If the Western World truly feared communism why did it turn its back on Rhodesia while the USSR and China openly funded/trained communist armies in Africa which, were then used to seize control of Rhodesia?

I don't deny this. They were absolutely in the wrong to have let this country fall to the Communists. The only thing I say, is from the perspective of the U.S, they may have turned a blind eye to this because Rhodesia was considered a rogue territory from the U.K, so maybe the U.S didn't want to piss off their British allies back then? But again, everything is hindsight. Looking at Zimbabwe today, the U.S would have been better off ignoring their relationship with the U.K and save the Rhodesians instead.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

threaten our way of life

You mean Twerking?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_in_one_country

this is stalinism really. It makes no sense, it can't succeed in one country cuz capitalists will bribe it till their leaders sell it out which Trotsky predicted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_revolution this is what's needed. World will never be perfect. We'll always have to fight the rich.

[–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

this is stalinism really. It makes no sense, it can't succeed in one country cuz capitalists will bribe it till their leaders sell it out which Trotsky predicted.

That is not what happened.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

nah and it was an easy prediction

gotta wipe out capitalism, the rich are parasites

[–]Salos60000Pragmatic European Nationalism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Move to China if you want communism

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

no it's like i said socialism in one country can't work, that's the problem with china, capitalists bribe all their leaders

[–]Salos60000Pragmatic European Nationalism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

https://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/comments/odp9i7/this_4th_of_july_we_are_announcing_that_we_are/

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

yeah not clickin reddit

[–]F--K_OFF_JACKASS 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

you are NOT taking in "hundreds of thousands" of afghan refugees, but instead you are simply opening the door to UNLIMITED muslim migrations.

soon we will have throats cut in the street, like in france and london..

Allahuakbar.

[–]IkeConn 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Back in the 1980's Charlie Wilson handed Afghanistan to the USA on a silver platter. We blew it. Google him. "Charlie Wilson's War"

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

is it all his fault, reagan couldn't say no? Wasn't really in charge, was senile maybe?

[–]Wrangel 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Backing the taliban gave gave a lot of bang for the buck when it came to fighting the Soviets, and it made sense. Had the US not involved itself after the Soviets left the taliban wouldn't have been a problem.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

From a pragmatic point of view, should we have really cared if Afghanistan fell to Communism?

This is not like Europe or other white countries, where Capitalism & Communism creates two different societies. Afghanistan was always going to be shit, as demonstrated after the Soviets left and America occupied them. The country still remains poor and uninventive.

See the same thing in Africa. Both economical systems have been tried, but the continent is unimpressive as a whole.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

if afghanistan went communist, and succeeded, other countries would see it was good and think about having their own revolution.