Does anyone know anything about the specific level of influence WNs have in the Russian army?

submitted by ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet from self.debatealtright

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Couple Russians pictured here apparently celebrating Hitler's birthday (based if true)

https://twitter.com/Jake_Hanrahan/status/1516842473745788935

Translation: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FQzpxIGaMAE2eFp?format=png&name=900x900

Have also seen DPR and Wagner group soldiers with NS tattoos. Funny how both sides seem to have every single extremist political faction in existence.

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[–]Rakean93Identitarian socialist 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (14 children)

I think that white nationalists, or nationalists at all, have very little in place both in Russian army and in Russia itself. They don't seem to think along those lines at the moment and those terms have, anyway, a very different meaning for them. Nazism, for example, is mostly linked to anti-russian feelings, and nationalism is a liberal and libertine ideology that promotes mostly capitalism, gay sex and drugs. There may be a few white nationalists among the most westernised people, but I don't think it's prevalent at all.

Likely, the most common thing that you will find related to white nationalism is about the defence and the supremacy of the Russian language and the orthodox church.

[–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Well then would these various images of Russian soldiers/mercenaries with NS insignia and ideology be small outliers? Or is it more the norm than western observers think? It's a question worth asking, especially considering the military will likely play a role during the chaos after Putin dies.

[–]SoylentCapitalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

What is motivating you to help white nationalists? Are you nationalistic about your own people?

[–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

What is motivating you to help white nationalists?

Destruction of Jewish power and the American empire is a boon to all.

Are you nationalistic about your own people?

I'm nationalistic about the people who historically progressed and maintained my civilization/culture.

[–]negrogreBeing black is anti-white 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Well, not blacks. But destruction of negrolatry is also a boon.

[–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Honestly I think nignogs are fundamentally much happier leading tribal lifestyles with clan structures than they are trying to put a suit on and larp as western capitalists. So yes, even them.

[–]negrogreBeing black is anti-white 0 insightful - 1 fun0 insightful - 0 fun1 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You're much more optimistic than I am

[–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well I don't know that they're smart enough to realize they're better off without them

[–]JuliusCaesar225Nationalist + Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

That is not true. Russia is very nationalist and prior to Putin the nation was filled with far right groups.

[–]Rakean93Identitarian socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Well, I'm not a Russian expert myself, so I may be totally wrong. But it seems to me that there is a strong insistence about the fact that Russia is not nationalist but patriotic, for example. I read that several self proclaimed nationalist went to fight against Russia for Ukraine. And so on. Also, I mean, the liberal democratic party (that the Wikipedia page claims "it's not liberal, nor democratic, nor a party) exposes most of the tropes usually associated with white nationalism. On the other hand, Russian have access to internet so they probably take part in the global WN culture if they are really committed to that, but I don't think that those are particularly common.

[–][deleted]  (2 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Rakean93Identitarian socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I don't think the Russian nationalists are similar to our western nationalists anyway. They seems to be very much liberal and libertarian.

    [–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    That's ridiculous a huge amount of the activism they do is beating drug addicts and perverts to death.

    [–]NeoRail 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I think you are just looking at the wrong kind of nationalists. There are right wing nationalists in Russia, just like there are anywhere else. They also have liberal and left wing nationalists, however, who with some exceptions are not really nationalists at all. The LDPR is a special case and has nothing to do with liberalism or democracy.

    [–]casparvoneverecBig tiddy respecter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

    Russian nationalism is of a different flavor than the west. It's built around a Slavic identity and has strong sympathies for White racialism.

    The thing is that they are absolutely opposed to Nazism and Hitler. The nazi invasion of Russia cost them 27 million lives and devastated their whole country. They correctly see the war as an attempt at extermination of the slavs and see Nazism as an evil force from outside.

    Anti-nazism has a different meaning for Russia than it has for the West. In Russia, it means fighting this great external enemy over which Russia won a great victory. It roughly means anti-slavicism. It doesn't mean anti-racism, negro worship, Jew worship, and the Holocaust mania.

    https://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2022/0420/Russia-says-it-s-fighting-Nazis-in-Ukraine.-It-doesn-t-mean-what-you-think

    Nor should anyone associate themselves with nazis and Hitler. This is an own goal WN can't stop scoring. Nazism has an extremely bad rep and deservedly so. It caused a world war and showed the world brutality on a scale unmatched since the Mongol invasions. Hitler killed more white people than any other man in history.

    For every country in Europe barring Germany and Austria, nazism means occupation, rape, torture, theft of property, and enslavement. You will win zero favors by flying a swastika, sieg heiling, and celebrating Hitler's birthday.

    The association with nazis is the greatest tarnish on WN. It conflates the legitimate WN desire to save their people with the militarism and genocidal actions of Nazism. That's why Jews love to highlight any unironic Nazis like Weev, Anglin or Spencer.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    This is just regurgitated Putin shill propaganda. Only a retard unironically believes that Zelensky is a nazi, or that Ukraine was somehow "great external enemy" to Russia, even if it did join NATO.

    Article you linked is jewish horseshit, they try to say just because jews aren't seen as the sole victims that Russia doesn't care about the holocaust whereas Russia has been one of the main promoters of such nonsense (for obvious reasons tbh) and sees Israel as a "natural ally".

    That's why Jews love to highlight any unironic Nazis like Weev, Anglin or Spencer.

    Pretty ironic of you to include Spencer here because he was notorious for running away from the nazi label as hard as possible, he was calling antifa "the real fascists", etc.

    I'll let smart people draw conclusions for themselves from there, but it only goes to show that "nazi" simply means "an enemy". In our countries being against the jews means you're a nazi, in Russia being against Putin regime means you're a nazi. If anything, you need to deconstruct the nazi mythology and look at WW2 like any other event in history, and not being a Putin cocksucker.

    [–]JuliusCaesar225Nationalist + Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    calling antifa "the real fascists",

    Spencer would never say something like that.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    What do you mean "he would never", he did.

    [–]JuliusCaesar225Nationalist + Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Do you have proof of this claim?

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    At like 0:33 mark, original clip has been censored by YouTube.

    [–]JuliusCaesar225Nationalist + Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Okay, he kind of said it but not really.

    [–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Nor should anyone associate themselves with nazis and Hitler. This is an own goal WN can't stop scoring. Nazism has an extremely bad rep and deservedly so. It caused a world war and showed the world brutality on a scale unmatched since the Mongol invasions. Hitler killed more white people than any other man in history.

    Okay so then what do you think about the people who do associate themselves with that within the Russian armed forces, going as high as the commander of the Wagner group? That was the question here not about the ethics of neo-nazism.

    [–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    I think it's pretty much established that Russia has tons of white nationalists.

    [–]JuliusCaesar225Nationalist + Socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I don't get why these slavs cant be fash or NS without idolizing someone who wanted to build an empire at the expense of their nations.

    [–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I think there's a metaphysical pull towards him tbh considering how wide the reverence goes.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

    None, none of them even consider themselves white and will disregard "white" as WeStErN anglo-invented colonial concept. This isn't exclusive for Russia either, this is characteristic of most of Slavs, and it gets worse the more you go to the east.

    EDIT: just read this Telegram post and skimmed through comments. This is 1:1 on par with Azov people who think they're fighting for national socialism, just replace Russo-Bolshevism with Ukro-Bolshevism.

    [–]Rakean93Identitarian socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    I don't buy into the "white" thing also, exactly for those reasons, and I'm definitely not a slav. I use the term European usually.

    [–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    What's the difference?

    [–]Rakean93Identitarian socialist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    In common use, not much, in fact on the web I just use white because the point is pretty clear.

    But if I have to be more philosophical and analitical, the category of "white" was indeed a British colonial semi-invention (it was occasionally used before but in a very limited way, the point was more about moors Vs Christians) that organize in a hierarchical way races and ethnicities. There is the assumption, for example, that if there is a white race, even within the race those who are more white are more pure. So if I say European, or I refer to a particular ethnicity, it's clear that I am talking about a group, with racial, historical, spiritual and cultural characteristics that are concurrent in creating an identity; if I say white I'm speaking about a hierarchical order based on colours.

    [–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    I do not fully agree with the way you are framing things, but in either case I think you have overlooked one issue. "European" can certainly be used in the same way as "white" is, according to you - it would be possible to speak of "more European" people or of "less European" people, in regards to ancestry, culture, religion, etc. I do not think that there is a real difference between the two terms.

    [–]Rakean93Identitarian socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    It's not like it's an important matter anyway. But I can relate with the position attributed to the slavs.

    [–]JuliusCaesar225Nationalist + Socialist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    More importantly "white" is just a lame and uninspiring label for an identity.

    [–]ifuckredditsnitches_Resident Pajeet[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    EDIT: just read this Telegram post and skimmed through comments. This is 1:1 on par with Azov people who think they're fighting for national socialism, just replace Russo-Bolshevism with Ukro-Bolshevism.

    Yeah it's a bit ironic isn't it? That combined with the totenkopf and SS tats on some of the DPR and Wagner guys has gotten me asking questions. Perhaps these Russians aren't as anti-fascist as they tell us.

    [–]NeoRail 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    Is this really a thing? I know that some intellectuals use this exact framing, but I have a very hard time picturing this view as popular with the masses. My impression was that Slavs view themselves as distinct from Westerners, but still consider themselves white. Is it not the same in Croatia?

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    Croats mostly do see themselves as white, but that white negationism is becoming a meme amongst urban people. Again, the more east you go, the more prevalent it is (Croatia has always been more Europe-oriented due to proximity and cultural exchange with Italy, being in Austro-Hungary, etc.), but the ground certainly is fertile for this nonsense, especially since people will sooner or later have to deal with the fact that white people have no place in foreign companies.

    [–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    I think this type of response is most common for Westernised Slavs who know that they are different from Westerners and also that Westerners experience a lot of problems because they are white, so to these Westernised Slavs the easy solution is to say they are not white. The problem with this strategy, if it can be called that, is that no one cares what they think - both Westerners and non-Europeans still consider them white.

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    Yeah I agree, but again I also wonder why eastern slavs consider themselves apart from whites as well. Russia and its allies, Belarus and Serbia do it a lot. I guess it's because they hate everything the west represents, they subscribe to libtard dogmas that European civilization started only after the WW2 in a weird way.

    [–]NeoRail 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    I haven't heard about this phenomenon with Belarus and Serbia before. I know that in Russia, white and/or European identity has a very complex history, so their case lends itself to explanation a bit more easily. Obviously, Russians are white, but ever since Peter the Great European influence in the country has been anti-Russian, and the political relations between Russia and the rest of Europe have also been very troubled. Consequently, an anti-European camp has developed which goes as far as renounce European belonging itself. As a side note, during the Cold War, the CIA hilariously made it a policy to attempt to undermine Soviet reputation in Asia and Africa by reminding those people that "Russians are also white".

    [–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    As a side note, during the Cold War, the CIA hilariously made it a policy to attempt to undermine Soviet reputation in Asia and Africa by reminding those people that "Russians are also white".

    That's hilarious, what's the source? lmao

    [–]NeoRail 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I wish I could remember. I tried to find something online, but no luck.