At what point does the government not make low birth rates a crime?

submitted by radicalcentristNational Centrism from self.debatealtright

I know the title sounds ultra draconian, but after reading this article about South Korea trying to spend its way into having more babies, we're dealing with an issue that borders on actual extinction.

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/12/03/asia/south-korea-worlds-lowest-fertility-rate-intl-hnk-dst/index.html

There's no guarantees that such a law has to be permanent. Hell, it's perfectly acceptable that childlessness is punished until replacement levels are achieved again.

But if it means forcing every Man and Woman in the country to marry and have at least one child, then there is really no other option to preventing a complete collapse.

Immigration? We know that's just another form of demographic replacement that guarantees the Native Koreans would still disappear or get mixed into a completely different ethnic group, like what happened to Brazil.

Robots and artificial wombs? It's a more sci-fi solution, but it could become really helpful in the long term as it gets around certain ethical questions (i.e robots solve the problem of filling in job shortages, taking care of the elderly, and bypassing feminism by allowing males to have an obedient companion that can raise as many as kids as they want).

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[–]iamonlyoneman 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Honestly this sounds like the setup for an incel fantasy of forced breeding, and of course the superior intellect of the incel gets selected for breeding LOL

[–]TheWorldToCome 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Why is a shrinking population in the age of automation not a natural thing and actually a good thing? Why do we need muh perpetual growth of population?

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's a chicken and the egg scenario.

Hedging all your bets on automation while striving to be a world power has yet to be seen. Especially when the entire system of Capitalism is built upon growth and not stagnation.

You could argue "just ditch Capitalism" but now you're in the exact same position as all the other socialist countries on Earth. Which is to say, none of them influence geopolitics.

[–]UncleWillard56 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't see it as such a bad thing. Hell, I'm no expert, but my layman's theory is that the planet already keeps our population down via disease, climate, etc. already. Big believer in evolutionary biology, but what if it's at the species level? When an organism hits the limits of resources, some evolutionary trigger clicks and balances things out. In our case, we've just been able to counter that with advances in technology thus far.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes technology does get better, but what happens when half your population is now loaded with old people who take up Hospitals/Long Term Homes?

On top of the fact retired people don't work anymore, so their existence will require they drain the welfare state while not contributing anything back in taxes.

We need technology to develop faster if we want to avoid a total implosion scenario. Such as getting more trained Doctors/Nurses into these facilities instead of leaving behind a shortage where no one gets medical care.

Edit: By the way, I'm not one of those liberals who think the only solution is mass immigration. That just creates a whole other problem down the line or even makes it worse. But no one having babies anymore like in South Korea is just as much an extinction scenario waiting to happen.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Modernity is a total disaster.

[–][deleted]  (1 child)

[deleted]

    [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    You moran, govt deliberately lowered the birthrate. i will provide justification later if allowed.

    You're making a claim so you have to back it up with evidence.

    [–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I found another article that sheds more light on the birth rate crisis.

    In Canada, the Liberal government (that is very feminist) is committed to giving Women jobs instead of maintaining the traditional role of caretaker.

    https://financialpost.com/news/economy/record-employment-rate-women-trudeau-subsidized-daycare-plan-working

    I've longed argued that the family unit has been in dangers since the 1950s, when Women had entered the workforce and lead to changing expectations. The salary of one man use to be enough to buy a house, car, look after family etc. But that is no longer the case.

    I could easily see societies in Korea and Japan having the same issue. Feminism has been driving them away from actually raising babies, and instead, trying to go up the corporate ladder instead.

    [–]Katelyn_Bell 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I’d like to surface this: “During a visit to a nursery in September, South Korean President Yoon Suk Yeol admitted that more than $200 billion has been spent trying to boost the population over the past 16 years.”

    So, doing what exactly? $200 billion dollars, even over 16 years, is an extraordinary number to not have some success metric tied to it. This is commonly the cost of solving the wrong problem.

    The declining population as it relates to South Korea isn’t the problem that needs to be solved. That’s why none of y’all’s solutions, especially forced child-breeding/rearing, are going to make a dent in that population decline.

    Decades and decades of subtle cultural poisoning by the West has perverted Korean culture. SK has a cultural obsession with appearance that permeates every facet of existence. Who wants to have a family in a culture where bus boys and electricians and plumbers have to also be attractive during the job application process? They have to attach photos to their job applications.

    Ergo you may imagine that they have the highest rate of plastic surgery per capita in the world (by far) with 20% of surgical patients citing their parents were the reason they were undergoing the knife.

    Every (mentally-balanced, sane, rational) parent knows that life is a gloriously messy process of slowly letting go of the things of youth. No surgery in the world is gonna keep your toddler young and adorable; in fact the very idea that this would even be wanted is abhorrent. In order to grow into parenthood, and adulthood, we have to let go of and surrender the things of youth.

    Forcing them to breed at this point in their societal structure would be a force multiplier in creating more problems downstream.

    A more logical hypothesis or strategy would be:

    -remove access to all cosmetic procedures,

    -begin a propaganda campaign that motherhood, stretch marks, and crying babies are the new sexy plastic k-pop boy band,

    -pay off socialites and influencers to become obscenely family-oriented with content to the point of making followers feel FOMO for not having children,

    -understand that in doing all of the above we decimate the economy of the entire country itself which currently provides 1/4th of the world’s plastic surgeries.

    -pocket remaining 190 billion dollars and fund strategic breeding initiatives with targeted populations instead.

    Source: https://www.hmsreview.org/issue-7/2022/8/a-look-at-south-korean-plastic-surgery