Did the Allies getting Atomic Bombs defeat any chances of a German victory in WW2?

submitted by radicalcentristNational Centrism from self.debatealtright

So I was watching this scene from a documentary (https://youtu.be/vWrjZG4HJyU?t=206) where Hitler stresses how important it was to stop the Normandy invasions at all cost. Which would then allow Germany to focus all its efforts on the Soviets.

But something grim comes to mind. If the Normandy invasion did fail, then how would Hitler have managed the war when the Allies eventually reveal their most deadly weapon: the atomic bombs?

I'm trying to imagine any scenario in which Germany could have tried to counter this. The British Island remained unconquered, so the Allies could still do bombing raids over Europe. One advantage Germany did have is they where the first country to develop Jet Fighters but they came very late and existed in smaller numbers.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Messerschmitt_Me_262

The other hope was Hitler knocking the Soviets out of the war and gaining the much needed oil and food to keep the Reich going. But that alone still wouldn't have stopped Berlin from getting nuked in 1945.

Otherwise, I'm out of ideas. I don't even think Japan could have done much to come to Germany's aid. They managed to send their Navy but it only got as far as Africa.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Madagascar

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[–]IkeConn 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

No. We had already saved the French and British for the second time and the Nazis were finished before we dropped the bombs.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

and the Nazis were finished before we dropped the bombs.

But I'm clearly talking about when Germany still had control over continental Europe.

Refer to this map of 1944 before Operation Overlord happened.

https://files.catbox.moe/5kcpny.jpg

The Allies had tried to make their way through Italy, but they where grounded down by just how hard the terrain and fortifications where.

[–]IkeConn 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

But that is not how it happened.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

You never gave an explanation.

[–]IkeConn 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

The bomb wasn't ready until July of 1945. Germany had surrendered by May 8, 1945. There was no bomb to hit them with before they capitulated.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You missed the context of this thread.

It's about Germany still being successful in spite of the Atomic Bombs being developed.

Especially if they still hold onto Europe after Normandy fails.

[–]IkeConn 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Hitler screwed the pooch when he invaded Russia. You can't invade Russia. The winters will kill you. Hitler should have left the Russians alone, ignored England, forged ahead with their missiles and jets while building a huge armed forces, growing a shitload of food, and stockpiling petroleum.

If Hitler had repulsed the Normandy Invasion it would only have delayed the allies about a year. Then we might have nuked a German city. Maybe before September 1945. Of course the Germans may have given up after seeing what happened to Japan.

[–]radicalcentristNational Centrism[S] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Hitler screwed the pooch when he invaded Russia. You can't invade Russia. The winters will kill you.

Exaggeration, if not hyperbole. I can find the numbers but frostbite never amounted to more than 50% of all Eastern Front casualties.

Russia is treated as invincible, but people forget they did surrender in WW1. And hell, even looking at current Ukraine Crisis shows a smaller country can hold their own if they put up a fierce enough fight.

Hitler should have left the Russians alone,

War was inevitable. In fact, even before Barbarossa, Soviet Russia had already invaded the Baltics, Poland and Finland.

Ideology also plays a big part. Just as we see today, Extreme Leftism under the influence of the Jews is hostile to any nation wishing to preserve itself.

ignored England

The Germans did do that. Hitler repeatedly asked for peace and even spared British soldiers as they evacuated Dunkirk instead of being destroyed. But it was an ideological war, and the Jews in the West where not going to let a successful Germany thrive for the same reasons ethnic nationalism today is heavily suppressed.

If Hitler had repulsed the Normandy Invasion it would only have delayed the allies about a year.

Another Normandy invasion would have been off the table for a much longer time.

Fun history lesson, there was an even earlier invasion of France that got repelled. It was called the Dieppe Raid. It took another 2 years before they came back for Overlord.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dieppe_Raid

Then we might have nuked a German city. Maybe before September 1945. Of course the Germans may have given up after seeing what happened to Japan.

Germany was much more willing to fight to the death ironically. Japan still had a massive presence in Asia and even the main islands had not been invaded yet. What knocked them out completely was when the Soviets declared war and reversed all their gains in China in a month.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_occupation_of_Manchuria

Germany kept the fight going until the Soviets made their way into Berlin, and where forced to clear every street until the government collapsed.

[–]IkeConn 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yea yea yea. What if. Doesn't change things. At least you can build a argument. I'll give you that and an up doot.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I had no idea this movie existed.