Fascism Question: If Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera's Falangism WAS NOT fascism, why did Italian Fascists say it WAS fascism

submitted by 8thmonitor from self.debatealtright

https://fascio.substack.com/p/the-fascist-international-congress This is in reference to the 1934 Fascist Conference.

Ramiro Ledesma Ramos approved Caballero to represent the Falange, which created an internal disagreement with José. José Antonio Primo de Rivera permitted members of the Falange to attend but emphasized:

“Falange Espanola de las J.O.N.S. is not a Fascist movement.”

— Nick W. Greger, Jose Antonio Primo de Rivera: The Foundations of The Spanish Phalanx

Despite José's bewildering statements, the Italians still categorized the Falange as Fascist and invited them to the conference.

I thought it was confirmed that Prima de Rivera was some distributist socialist and antifa.

https://saidit.net/s/debatealtright/comments/bf91/fascism_question_other_than_a_james_gregor_who/13ual

all 8 comments
sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

José Antonio Primo de Rivera was a fascist, but Francisco Franco wasn't.

[–]8thmonitor[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

That is what I also thought, but did you read what Zoltanous and Markimus said? It looks like both were antifa. https://saidit.net/s/debatealtright/comments/bf91/fascism_question_other_than_a_james_gregor_who/13ual

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Where did Markimus say he was antifa?

[–]8thmonitor[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

In the previous comment's link: https://saidit.net/s/debatealtright/comments/bf91/fascism_question_other_than_a_james_gregor_who/13ual

I asked Markimus if Zoltanous is a good source because Zoltanous said that José Antonio Primo de Rivera WAS NOT a fascist.

Then, Markimus confirmed that José Antonio Primo de Rivera WAS NOT a fascist:

I'm familiar, Jose Antonio was more along the lines of a reactionary, Catholic, distributist type character. A lot of these guys called themselves fascist or were allied with Mussolini. Ramiro Ledesma was a revolutionary nationalist and syndicalist. One of the biggest distinctions is the difference between Modernism and Reaction I guess, the agrarian guys who didn't want to modernise their countries vs the guys looking to re-organise their countries to be more powerful. Fascist movements tended to have both mixed together, the non-fascist ones neglected the modernism, rationalisation of the economy, labour-organising etc stuff.

[–]VraiBleuScots Protestant, Ulster Loyalist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Maybe ur reading too much into s/Markimus ‘ comment? Jose Antonio was by most categorisations, a Fascist (just like the NSDAP) & his movement was closely aligned with Italian Fascism.

That doesn’t mean there weren’t important distinctions. Spanish French or German Fascism are naturally going to look quite different to their Italian predecessor.

[–]8thmonitor[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

But I don't think he was a fascist because he didn't support the core fascist beliefs that Markimus and Zoltanous mentioned that fascists should believe in.

I think Primo De Rivera was just a fascist collaborator like Dollfuss, but was also antifa like Dollfuss.

[–]EthnocratArcheofuturist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Not a fascist is not the same as antifa.

[–]8thmonitor[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Ofc, but I meant antifa like Primo De Rivera was against Ledesma and other fascist views.