Does anyone want to discuss interstellar propulsion?

submitted by [deleted] from self.whatever

The problem isn't that space travel is slow, it's that space is really, really big. To illustrate exactly how big it is, consider this quote:

Space is big. You just won't believe how vastly, hugely, mind-bogglingly big it is. I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the drug store, but that's just peanuts to space. - Douglas Adams

Mind blowing isn't it. Our neighbor Alpha Centauri is just 4.37 light years from Earth. But that's still 25,689,590,000,000 miles. The fastest we've so far gotten something to go is the Helios 2 probe at 157,078 miles per hour. It would take over 18,000 years for it to get to Alpha Centauri.

Still, conventional propulsion is not necessarily out. If a crew could be dormant, in a scifi stasis chamber, maybe we could just thaw them out in a few thousand centuries when they got there.

Or perhaps humans don't go at all, we sent AIs, von neumann probes. Possibly they could even seed a new humanity on a planet capable of sustaining life.

Plan B, fuck it, let's warp there.

The Alcubierre drive, Alcubierre warp drive, or Alcubierre metric (referring to metric tensor) is a speculative warp drive idea based on a solution of Einstein's field equations in general relativity as proposed by Mexican theoretical physicist Miguel Alcubierre during his PhD study at the University of Wales, Cardiff, by which a spacecraft could achieve apparent faster-than-light travel if a configurable energy-density field lower than that of the vacuum (that is, negative mass) could be created.

The downsides, we don't know to make one (if it's possible), we can't power it, we don't have the exotic particulars required, traveling that way might kill you with Hawking radiation, or send out a blast of neutrinos like a super weapon when you arrive.

And ... I'm petered out here, thoughts?

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[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Copying u/hennaojichan's response so y'all can see it:

I was just going to answer your question about interstellar propulsion but the question is no longer there so I will put it here. This idea was not originally from SciFi but from a scientist, Freemann Dyson, I believe. He had so many "thought experiments" that using a search engine would be futile.

So there is a living pod for whatever human or cyborg or other stuff you are transporting, but that is not important. That is connected to the propulsion end of the craft by a very long antenna-like structure that you've seen in multiple SF movies and there would be some sort of minor propulsion devices used only for getting the big vehicle in position. Then, connected to the long antenna-like structure would be a massive parabolic dish facing straight out the back of the starship. When all is ready, a nuclear device is shot out from the center of the parabolic structure and exploded at a predetermined distance from the ship aaand WHAM you're on your way. Of course there would be some hella strong shock absorbing structure in there. Guess what? It has never been tried!

I like the above pic. You have no taste but are funny as hell. "Those 911 was an..." pics are made by a mentally problematic individual or an intel agency—same thing.

[–]SubliminalCriminal 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

i seriously believe that i have stood right in front of an unidentified flying object.. it was semi invisible. and it was fkng huge..

i was about twelve years old.. i was in southern oregon.. i was up behind my grandparents cabin in a little mountain town called "rocky point"... i was with my kid brother... he was two years younger than i was.. so he was about ten.. we were walking around behind the cabin, there was probably almost two feet of fresh snow on the ground.. and out of nowhere there is a fresh and thick trail of blood in the snow... but there are no footprints or other disturbances in the snow... so where did the blood come from? i dont know.. so we followed the trail of blood.. and then the trail of blood ended abruptly.. and we just stood there at the ending of that trail of blood.. we were somehow unable to move.. and in front of us was this huge cavern in the ground, probably the size of a typical football stadium... and it was all foggy or fuzzy looking into it.. but here is the catch to all of this... we knew this territory like the back of our hands.. there was no such cavern in this area.. i firmly believe that we were standing directly in front of a flying craft that was occupying this space in the ground... and it was somehow cloaked to be invisible..

go figure.

[–]JasonCarswellMental Orgy 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Weird stuff. Thanks for sharing.

Perhaps you might want to join the conversation that's continued under this post.

[–]SubliminalCriminal 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

yeah, it is weird, isnt it? but it is a true story.. i do have some side effects that linger after that event, but i have found that if i line my underpants with tinfoil that it makes it all somewhat bearable.

nanu nanu.

[–]JasonCarswellMental Orgy 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Ever chew on tinfoil? Before, after, or unrelated to your underwear. It's like licking 9v batteries.

[–]SubliminalCriminal 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

yeah, licking inside the rim of a toilet does about the same thing.

[–]BadSprocket 3 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I like Plan B.

[–]Vigte 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I posted a little bit about some theories here a couple days ago.

The video I posted will really be interesting to you, I think. The channel it's from, too - he, for all appearances, seems like a fully competant and genuine person looking into it.

[–]JasonCarswellMental Orgy 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Perhaps you might want to join the conversation that's continued under this post.

[–]SubliminalCriminal 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

interstellar propulsion, when achieved, will probably not work like we might expect it to work.. i am not sure what it will be like, but it will be something unexpected..

it may be something where we learn to mathemagically modify how we are plugged into the universe, and like shazaam, you are now somewhere else.

beam me up scotty.

[–]JasonCarswellMental Orgy 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

I'd rather discuss intrastellar propulsion.

My Bittersweet Seeds story has some.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

That works too. What sort of intrastellar propulsion do you use in your book?

[–]JasonCarswellMental Orgy 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

I forget off hand, but if you really want I could dig through my notes to find the 3 or 4 standard rocket fuel combinations I liked best, usually including peroxide and kerosene and/or similar mixes. All of them have their pros and cons, from being extremely reactive and dangerous to being extremely toxic and dangerous. If there was ever a leak in space and an astronaut got some on the outside of their suit, they could be in some next level shit - something interesting I've considered but can't fit in my story, unless my story is fleshed out into a trilogy, miniseries, or a longer format.

I'm more interested in developments in ion propulsion (solar powered?) and solar wind sails which are ever so mild but cumulatively noteworthy in the vacuum of space with ZERO resources except what you bring. It's been so long I've forgotten much of it. None of it is critical to my story, and in fact, as much as I'd like to (perhaps in a novelization), I've even considered not delving into fuel details at all in order to focus on driving the action and story and bringing other ideas to fore that people can't just easily look up.

Importantly and critical to my story is my completely unique process of getting into space, the space vehicles and stations, etc.

IMO, interstellar travel is impossible sci-fi without some kind of major unforeseen breakthroughs. Further, we really have no idea how much dust and debris is out there in the Kuiper Belt, Oort Cloud, and beyond. IMO the scientific consensus is daftly overlooking the vast amounts of "stuff" that must obviously be out there that is not big and dense enough to be radioactive or light emitting. They talk about it like Dark Matter and Dark Energy are a mystery. I say nonsense. The Universe is vast and expanding sure, but it certainly doesn't mean that everything freely floating adrift has collapsed into solar systems. IMO the Universe is faaaaaaar more dusty than anyone imagines, and not all elements and chemicals are born in stars. High-speed impacts on all scales are very serious and underrated. Earth's oceans came from ice-based meteors. I suspect our oceans of oil came from carbon-based meteors creating complex chains under heat on impact too.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I don't plan on focusing on the logistics hardly at all, it's boring after all, but they do determine what is and isn't possible within the story so I feel it's important for me to know them.

One great series, Blood on the Stars, has, particularly in the first book, references to suicide attacks. The problem it introduces is that it's obviously incredibly destructive to send a vessel with a powerplant with all of its ordinance, potentially at relativistic speeds into a target.

You see the logistics problem that creates? Why would they have their more traditional scifi ship battles risking thousands of lives when one craft, one possibly unmanned craft, that would likely be destroyed anyways, could end the entire battle?

That detail should have changed all the combat in every one of his stories. And although you can just suspend disbelief, it still nags me a bit.

That question, why aren't (particularly) FTL drives used as superweapons bugs me. I think there needs to be a reason why not, or it needs to be incorporated.

And of course logistics affect mundane details like travel times that are important to keep things consistent. Although I suppose it doesn't matter if it's arbitrary as long as it's constant.

[–]JasonCarswellMental Orgy 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, among several elements that drive the plot of my story under pressure of a deadline, is the Kessler effect.

Reminds me of how stupid The Last Jedi was. Further, the physics of the impact make no sense either. She takes off at warp speed or whatever, some of the debris will be out of sight - and in the vacuum of space certainly won't be slowing down as it spreads out in a dramatic fashion, like it's underwater, beautifully shot as it is.

I don't know Blood On The Stars but they would be much wiser to simply launch a field of small debris like ye olde grapeshot. Everything in space is traveling at vast relative speeds. Rarely are things aligned and matching velocity. I could throw a roll of pennies at you and it would hurt or I would miss. If I unroll 50 pennies and throw them at you they might sting in many places. If I unroll 50 (or 50,000) pennies and release them in orbit at thousands of miles an hour - critical damage. No need for bombs or complete annihilation, just enough to ruin things with no supply or emergency ship able to rescue them in time. Pros: a critically damaged ship is much better than an exploded ship with thousands or millions of random pieces of junk. Cons: there are now 50,000 pennies in orbit to track too - plus all the debris from the minor critical hits.

Among my fave episodes:
/s/StarTrek/comments/adk/star_trek_the_next_generation_the_high_ground/

For my story, people are being phased out of working in space, meanwhile space tourism is just beginning. Too many strict requirements to keep humans alive. A.I. and robotics and remote controls will suffice. IMO humans will never go past the moon or lunar Lagrange points.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I guess what I'm working on right now screenwriters call a "Bible." Outlining the rules of the fictional universe.

[–]JasonCarswellMental Orgy 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Interesting. I don't need a Silmarillion because I'm sticking to hard-sci-fi (my fave) where reality and logic prevail. I still appreciate fantasy and myth and stuff but I have no need for monsters, magic, and bad physics. However, I have a backstory of development to the events in the story to lend it gravitas, history, and rational reasons for things being as they are - and I need to seamlessly weave that in naturally without seeming like obvious exposition. Many of my threads will inevitably end up on the editing floor.