I have been doing some reading on Jesus

jumba_jukiba · 2022-08-21T04:26:14+00:00

Jesus was almost certainly not real, and rather a sort of geographical negotiation between Alexandria and Antioch during Jewish emigration (a time period that didn't really happen all at once but was more of a gradual progression from when the temple burned and the failed bar khoba revolt)

a) The landmark philosphical breakthrough on christianity was that of Philo in Alexandria 50 BC. At the time, Alexandria was a Greek possession with roughly a quarter Jewish possession. This time period in question was extremely important in that the Greek regime collapsed and was replaced with a Roman one.

Philo's thoughts were a very novel development of Judaism at the time in that they sought to replace the angry and spiteful god of the old testament with a newer feminine spirit (something that is ubiquitous in nearly all gnostic texts)

b) Given this philosophical underpinning for a new judaic religion, the Romans saw what was happening and had some dignitaries and other upper echelon legal scholars get involved in Alexandria specifically. My understanding is that any reference to Paul or Pauline thought can be thought of as the official Roman take on what path christianity should take.

c) This still leaves the important question of what role Antioch and Peter played. I ignore Rome (basically where all the retconning happened) and their Luke/Acts concoction since the 2nd century is where most, if any, truth can be seen in the motivation for christianity.

Ignatius was the big player in Antioch and was likely responsible for Johannine authorship. His view also has the express-written approval of Rome so we can view Ignatius (85CE - 135CE) as the dominant Pauline force in Antioch who essentially started what most perceive as early christianity.

Peter (who I suspect to have been Cerinthus) was by far the most interesting character and likely the most prominent gnostic of early christianity, atleast who had any sort of meaninful role in the bible. By the same logic, he was the closest motivation for a real actual Jesus (aside from some small-time rebel rousers in Jerusalem such as Theudas) and never really made it up to Antioch as far as I can tell, dying around 105 near Jerusalem. Again, the Bae Khoba revolt had not even happened yet, so the gravity of how necessary christianity would be for the survival of jewish culture was not even apparent. I suspect Cerinthus had his own gospel which likely didn't live see the light of day, and was permitted a narrative role in the bible only insofar as it portrayed Pauline thought in a better light.

HongKongPhooey · 2022-08-21T00:40:01+00:00

Jesus was a bastard child, the product of an affair with a Roman soldier Joseph was a cuck.

Pantera supposedly. But yes, this immaculate conception birth is just an example of syncretism. That particular myth, the 3-day solstice christmas, easter, literally all taken from older religious texts and attributed to Jesus.

Jesus was similar to modern day televangelists and faith healers

Nah, I'd give him significantly more credit. Jesus was not a stickler for rules, he was always criticizing the Pharisees for following the letter rather than the spirit of the law. He also hung out with sinners, poor, and diseased people pretty much exclusively, didn't deal in fear and obedience, and was practically an economic communist by todays standards. Dude was basically a hippie

Todays fire and brimstone televangelists are the opposite. They say all the sinners are going to hell, preach fearing god and mindlesss obedience, are extremely judgemental, and mainly interested in making money. In fact modern christians are pretty much the furthest thing you can get from following the example of Jesus

zyxzevn · 2022-08-21T01:44:13+00:00

Nothing in history is as it was written. People change stories, invent stories etc.

I do have a feeling that something important happened during that time, but let's first see what is likely fake.

The crucifixion story is full with negative symbolism, that was clearly added later. The whole story of betrayal to the death is just so degenerating.
It seems very similar to how you would portrait an enemy.
The coming back from death has just a minor effect on the whole story. He is not coming back as a king like Moses or a similar hero.

The wonder of turning water into wine is a 2000 years old magician trick from India. (They used a can with 2 storage places and 2 holes for the fingers). Was probably known. Maybe they want to portrait him as a trickster, but I don't know how they regarded such people at the time.

The fleeing of Jesus from Palestina to Greece seems logical to me. Easy to do with the fishermen. And the Romans probably targeted him, and the local churches did not like him.

The bible that we know now was revised by the church (500?). The bible from Rome was written by someone who was famous for killing Christians, and Rome became the center of Europe for a long time.

The dead-sea scrolls tell different stories. More Gnosis like. I think that these are closer to the real story.

There was also a St. Issa (different person) who went to Tibet, met some monks. Went back and got killed.

I also saw a lecture about the astrology at that time. They had 3 planets (=kings) coming from the east. The sirius star rising. And many more astrological similarities with the birth story. Astrology was very significant at that time.

In similar sense, the story of Moses is also full with holes and weird things. And there are some discussions whether Mohammed ever existed. It seems to have originated from a Christian town, as they used crosses on the coins.

So to me it seems that most of the written History is fake, but that many persons in the stories probably have lived. With a whole different story behind them. In Europe we have stories about kings who have lived (like Carolus), but the stories are just like fairytales.

iamonlyoneman · 2022-08-21T00:51:17+00:00

I find it likely that

you are going to hell because you are wrong about the jesus

I hope you find truth before it's too late

johndoyle · 2022-08-21T17:53:57+00:00

I still find it funny that white westerners based their entire civilization on some brown middle eastern guy. If Jesus reappeared they'd call him a terrorist and throw him in gitmo.

jingles · 2022-08-21T01:14:59+00:00

Jesus said himself he was not divine.

where did he say this?

Views · 2022-08-21T21:38:24+00:00

The human mind has a foundational pattern of existence: it fills in the gaps. Our minds are designed to work by patterns. If there is not a pattern there for our mind to work by, we fill in the material necessary to make a pattern out of whatever few scraps of information we have. What we don't have, we make up.

This is the basis of religions. We start with an event or a set of events - which, in the nature of all events - are confusing, with threads leading in several different (often contradictory) directions. But the mind cannot hold on to this "chaos". The mind hates to be confused, so we immediately fill out "the pattern". It's an unconscious process; it can be witnessed, but it cannot be stopped.

So what exactly happened that created the "Jesus" stories? Nobody will ever know. That's not an exaggeration; it's the nature of how events are passed along through the stream of communication. Everyone who tells the story modifies it just a bit - either unintentionally or with an explicit agenda - to the point that we receive it and do the same. This process never ends. For the most visible current example, look at the split that is developing among churches arguing about whether trans ideology fits within the philosophy of Christianity.

This thread is yet more continuation of this process, at our own level.

There is no such thing as a "static" religion, any more than there is a static state to any other philosophy.

Each of us - to settle into a fully-formed human - must find our own individual relationship with this existence that surrounds us and comprises us. Even to "accept" some structure such as Christianity requires this process. One person's "faith" will be unique even relative to others who claim to share the same.

Who was Jesus? We will each find a figure in the recorded quotes that corresponds to some internal prompting within ourselves. Each of these images of him will be as unique as we ourselves are.

What is this? Who am I? Answering these questions is a permanently incomplete process. Until we address them directly, however, the reality we are surrounded by seems chaotic and hostile. The only way to peaceful existence within this reality we share is to face the confusion and realize just that: it's designed to be just as confusing as it ends up being. The confusion itself is hardwired in; as such being confused is just as perfect - and more accurate, though no "better" - as thinking to have "the answer" to a "question" which inherently exists beyond the limitation that any answer must necessarily place upon it.

Anman · 2022-08-22T12:36:16+00:00

So you've converted to islam. Now you are destined to only post shit going forward.

TarBaby · 2022-08-22T04:35:18+00:00

No that was Life of Brian by Monty Python.

TooMuchClay · 2022-08-21T02:42:55+00:00

None of the original sources or those who wrote shortly after with near access to the sources agree with anything you've said here. And the new testament + early writings are far far far more in the vein of accurate accounts than anything else from classical antiquity.

You think Titus was remotely unbiased? Livy? Plutarch? Please. And don't get me started on the Classical Greek historians, they would have been right at home with today's NewsShow hyperbole. You should read what Josephus had to say on them. Ouch.

The development of a working metaphysical model for scientific investigation, as well as the very concept of charity and the freedoms won by peasants by the late middle ages prove that the Western and Eastern traditions of Christianity have contributed more to civilization than anything else.

But you'll unfortunately likely only realize how wrong your "theories", supported by nothing more than your hate and spite, are when you plunge head first into self torment after your brief time is up.

Any search for Truth cannot be a bad thing but ask yourself: are you really prepared to accept the truth, even if it means Christian Tradition was right all along?

whatever

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