QT: If anorexics identify as underweight, is it wrong to give them weight-restoring treatment?

submitted by assignedcopatbirth from self.GCdebatesQT

  1. Anorexia Nervosa and Gender Dysphoria are both classified as mental disorders in the DSM V
  2. AN and GD are both defined by a marked incongruence between one’s idea of their body and the reality of their body; a strong desire to physically alter their body
  3. In GD we see this incongruence as the person's gender identity not matching their body, and it is considered curative to allow the person to change their body (transition) cosmetically, with medications, and surgeries to match the identity with their reality, even if it physically harms them, eg. binders that crack ribs, hormone blockers that cause infertility
  4. Discouraging physical transition is considered bigoted.
  5. Anorexic people identify as underweight or skeletal. They experience dysphoria related to their weight. To relieve this dysphoria, they do things that harm themselves, such as restrict food, compulsively exercise, and abuse laxatives.
  6. If identity is the core truth about a person, and dysphoria is the pain of the inner truth not matching reality, we have a moral obligation to allow people to act in ways to resolve dysphoria and let their bodies match their identities, even if their methods are harmful and dangerous to their health in other ways.
  7. Therefore, it is immoral to discourage anorexics from starving themselves. It is a blatant disregard for their inner reality, their identity. To attempt to change their identity from underweight-identified to healthy-identified is conversion therapy.

Do you agree? Why or why not?

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newinsightfulfun

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (114 children)

3 primary differences to me.

  1. Unchecked anorexia leads to death by malnutrition while transition leads to an extreme likelihood of improved life. Hormonal treatments have an overwhelmingly positive trend. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6354936/ As well as improved body image https://www.pcori.org/research-results/2013/examining-health-outcomes-people-who-are-transgender

  2. Anorexia isn’t a matter of identity. It’s a matter of body perception coupled with behavior and actual unhealthy presentation. It requires a distorted view (unlike gender dysphoria which in fact allows for a non distorted view but discomfort with the body as properly percieved) but also must be of a significantly low weight for a diagnosis at all. They don’t identify as fat they incorrectly believe they are, it’s not a matter of identity. In fact eating disorders are often presentations of things like an unmet need for control and other unrelated issues. This is not the case for gender dysphoria.

  3. Anorexia can show improvement with treatment while gender dysphoria only improves with transition.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 17 insightful - 6 fun17 insightful - 5 fun18 insightful - 6 fun -  (104 children)

Genuinely curious- why is that when an anorexic thinks they are fat they’re wrong, but when a male thinks he’s a girl/woman or a female thinks she’s a boy/man, they are correct? Also, are you saying that people with gender dysphoria only have gender dysphoria? That they don’t have other mental health issues or related/unrelated issues? What I’m confused about is- why can someone identify as the opposite sex, something they just literally are not? Like, you said that an anorexic believes they are fat- how is that so drastically different from someone identifying as the opposite sex with no real basis to even identify that way, since they have always existed in the body of their sex? If that isn’t worded well I can reword it.

Also- why is it that the treatment for trans people requires so much from other people? Even strangers?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (103 children)

Edit: removing a copy paste error meant for another post..

You are conflating delusion with identity incorrectly. They are factually not far. A trans person (absent other conditions) properly percieves their body. That body just makes them uncomfortable and they have realized the body that would make them more comfortable. It’s not a delusion that in some divine ephemeral sense that they are actually a woman and this body is a lie, it’s an understanding that this broken car is broken and knowing how to fix it.

Also, are you saying that people with gender dysphoria only have gender dysphoria? That they don’t have other mental health issues or related/unrelated issues?

Some certainly, but my claim is rather that dysphoria is caused by those other issues.

What I’m confused about is- why can someone identify as the opposite sex, something they just literally are not?

They simply can. It varies from person to person. As you know I consider myself a male woman. This is based on a calculus from a variety of factors including personal distress as being referred to as other than that, body preference, and yes some level of social preference as well as understanding how bad men are and how very much I do not feel I am a part of them. I can’t speak for other trans people but that was my process.

Like, you said that an anorexic believes they are fat- how is that so drastically different from someone identifying as the opposite sex with no real basis to even identify that way, since they have always existed in the body of their sex?

An anorexic believes themself literally fat. This is delusional perception. Trans people have accurate perception of their bodies, they just don’t like them until they are fixed. They don’t Immagine they were born with the proper genitals, they know how they were born but wish to fix that problem. This isn’t delusional perception it is bodily autonomy.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (102 children)

Im actually not conflating anything. I’m asking why the idea of gender identity is taken seriously, when a trans person who claims to identify as the opposite sex/gender would have nothing to base it on, since they’ve only existed in their own (oppositely sexed) body at the time that they understand their identity? How can they know and others accept the gender identity as accurate and not a side effect of a mental condition?

And if dysphoria is caused by those other issues, or there are other issues present- does every trans person get those other issues sorted out before they begin transitioning? (Honest question- I genuinely wonder this constantly)

As for your answer of how you identify yourself- how does distress equal “I’m a male woman”? That’s what I don’t get. Obvi you don’t have to answer if it makes you uncomfortable, but what I never understand is how distress that leads to you identifying out of your sex means you actually aren’t your sex/gender (I know you said male woman- to me woman is a sexed term not a gendered one, clarifying in case that’s confusing). To me, the hormones and surgery and every thing else that comes with transitioning emphasizes that you’d be your actual sexed term, because you’d not need any of the transitioning if you weren’t. Not trying to be rude, just woke up and can’t word well yet.

I understand the differences between anorexia and gender dysphoria- what j was asking is how can we trust that the gender identity of a trans person is accurate and true, as opposed to a side effect of a mental health issue?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (101 children)

Im actually not conflating anything. I’m asking why the idea of gender identity is taken seriously, when a trans person who claims to identify as the opposite sex/gender would have nothing to base it on, since they’ve only existed in their own (oppositely sexed) body at the time that they understand their identity? How can they know and others accept the gender identity as accurate and not a side effect of a mental condition?

Because identity is personal and not something so simple as a physical feature.

And if dysphoria is caused by those other issues, or there are other issues present- does every trans person get those other issues sorted out before they begin transitioning?

You can’t. My depression was worsened by dysphoria. Suicidal thoughts were caused by dysphoria. Those things are caused by and entwined with dysphoria. They have to be worked in together you can’t just excise depression. Even if you could it would be ignoring a condition in immediate need of treatment for no justifiable reasons.

As for your answer of how you identify yourself- how does distress equal “I’m a male woman”? That’s what I don’t get. Obvi you don’t have to answer if it makes you uncomfortable, but what I never understand is how distress that leads to you identifying out of your sex means you actually aren’t your sex/gender (I know you said male woman- to me woman is a sexed term not a gendered one, clarifying in case that’s confusing). To me, the hormones and surgery and every thing else that comes with transitioning emphasizes that you’d be your actual sexed term, because you’d not need any of the transitioning if you weren’t. Not trying to be rude, just woke up and can’t word well yet.

Well I’m male. So that part is pretty obvious. But I prefer female sex characteristics and and deeply uncomfortable with male ones. I consider the social pressures of what it is to be a man to be a prescription for evil essentially and absolute anathema and strive to distance myself from them in every possible way. I feel more comfortable being referred to as a woman. I more easily understand and get along with women. I’m not afraid of women. I also do yes, tend to adhere substantially to the social prescriptions for women’s behavior but mostly because I don’t tend to mind the parts I do follow. That combination of factors and the fact that our society cannot abide an “other” leads me to think that woman is the best fit of all possible labels.

I understand the differences between anorexia and gender dysphoria- what j was asking is how can we trust that the gender identity of a trans person is accurate and true, as opposed to a side effect of a mental health issue?

Because identity isn’t a thing you can be wrong about, barring actual delusion. You are who you are mentally, because the mind is what we are. You can’t have a wrong identity unless it’s something like believe you are Napoleon. And as I’ve said there’s nothing delusional about dysphoria:

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Well I’m male. So that part is pretty obvious. But I prefer female sex characteristics and and deeply uncomfortable with male ones. I consider the social pressures of what it is to be a man to be a prescription for evil essentially and absolute anathema and strive to distance myself from them in every possible way. I feel more comfortable being referred to as a woman. I more easily understand and get along with women. I’m not afraid of women. I also do yes, tend to adhere substantially to the social prescriptions for women’s behavior but mostly because I don’t tend to mind the parts I do follow. That combination of factors and the fact that our society cannot abide an “other” leads me to think that woman is the best fit of all possible labels.

This sounds like a bunch of sexist stereotypes. And running from ones you want to embrace opposite ones?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’m not embracing anything I didn’t already want. That’s the point.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

  1. That doesn’t really answer anything. I’m saying what makes a male saying they identify as a female something that they can even definitively know themselves? I understand that identity is personal- but femaleness or womanhood isn’t really a personal thing, it’s a state of being. So how can someone declare that they understand a literal opposite state of being well enough to identify into it? Feeling out of place in your body for whatever reason doesn’t (imo) mean that you have a sense of truly understanding a different type of body. And womanhood/femaleness is not a state of mind.

  2. So are you saying that with dysphoric patients, they skip all other issues they may have and focus on treating the dysphoria first? So for example, someone is dysphoric, has add/adhd, and bipolar disorder. Instead of treating the adhd and bipolar disorder first, it is set aside and dysphoria is dealt with first? So we don’t know if curing or dealing with any other mental disorders or past trauma etc could help with the dysphoria? (I’m not trying to make a point, this is honestly something I’ve been trying to understand for a while)

  3. So are you saying that you identify as a woman because you prefer the social constraints aced on women over the ones placed on males? (In addition you the discomfort you feel with being male and being referred to with male terminology?) and (please don’t get upset, again I’m trying to understand) does that mean that you identify more with the social concept of womanhood and what it means from your understanding/perspective, rather than what a female may consider womanhood to be, or what it literally/technically/definitively means to be a woman?

  4. How is identifying as something you are the literal opposite of accurate? This is what’s confusing to me- I don’t emotionally identify with anything I am, but I know I’m black, I know I’m American, I know I’m a woman. Because I fit the definitions of all of those words and it is biologically, legally, and physically etc true and accurate. I agree that when it fits facts, you are what your mind says you are- but if it’s categorically untrue, I don’t know that I believe you are something because you’re mind says it’s so. A severely mentally ill person with no diagnosis is still mentally ill, even if they don’t know it. A person who thinks they are fully white, but is mixed race and doesn’t know, will identify as white but still not be. There are other examples, but like- if Rachel Dolezal (the often used example) thinks she’s black, truly fully internally identifies as a black woman, how so that not true but it’s true for people with gender dysphoria? I used her because Despite believing she’s black, she took multiple steps to present herself as a black woman, because she knew she didn’t appear as one naturally. There doesn’t have to be delusion to incorrectly identify as something.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

  1. And I disagree. Fundamentally someone’s identity is their own so it’s not for me to decide who you are or you to decide who I am. I just think we fundamentally disagree here.

2 No. treat all in tandem. I’m just saying Don’t ignore dysphoria and treat other things. The dysphoria needs addressed as well

  1. It’s about the body most but ultimately it’s a combination of many things. It’s possible (though I doubt it) that I would identify as simply trans absent stigma or othering Beyond the binary roles. I can’t know. It feels like the best option on the whole as I’ve thought it thorugh if that makes sense.

  2. I don’t think woman is the opposite of male. That’s the core difference. I’m not saying I’m literally female. I’m saying I’m a woman because that makes the most sense and feels right for the way I am and the way I live. I think race is distinct since it’s, like sex, simple fact. But gender isn’t the same thing. Again I just thing we are working from fundamentally different definitions.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

  1. What happens when one person’s sense of identity impacts other people? Or when one person’s sense of identity conflicts with the identity of others? How are they both accurate and true?

  2. Is it at all possible that dealing with the other issues first may help the dysphoria? If someone has sexual trauma for example, could dealing with and finding a way of treating that trauma possibly alleviate dysphoria?

  3. I guess I feel like I understand gender dysphoria leading to identifying as trans, but not the opposite sex/gender. Like- I can understand the idea of having dysphoria and wanting to transition and present physically as the opposite sex, what I don’t get is how that leads to identifying and claiming the “title” of woman/man I feel like the life experiences of a TW differ from that of a woman, and the life experiences of a tm differ from that of a man. So to me, a transwoman would be identifying as a man who has altered their appearance to resemble a woman, but would still just simply not be able to understand womanhood in a real way. Again, I’m not trying to argue or insult you, I’m just trying to articulate my thoughts. I just haven’t seen an argument for woman not being associated with being female that has made sense to me personally. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of “the woman gender”, and I haven’t been presented with a definition that doesn’t directly associate woman with female that makes sense. I agree that we are working from fundamentally different definitions, my issue is that only one of our definitions is universally understood. And that, any transwoman to every have existed had to figure out their identity with the universal understanding of “woman” yet somehow, they’ve changed that definition. Meaning, every step a TW takes to transition is a step to appear to have the female form. The female form is sexed, not gendered. It’s literally cross sex hormones, not cross gender, it’s replicating sexed feautures, not gendered. So how do we now say that woman is not attached to female, when female sex characteristics (not gendered characteristics) are what are being replicated? I guess I mean to say that, I struggle with seeing that TW are aware that they are altering themselves to appear female, the concern is “passing”- which doesn’t mean pass as a woman, it means pass as female, but then they detach woman from female. If males can be women, the only reason to transition is to alleviate dysphoria. Passing shouldn’t be a factor or concern, a TW would be a woman already, from birth (and there’d be a way of seeing that, through brain scans or something), and maybe need to transition to alleviate the discomfort, but I feel it’s contradictory to remove the idea of woman being female, but still seek a female form. What I’m saying is, to me, it’s either trans people are the sex/gender they claim from birth in some way we haven’t figured out yet, or they are people with dysphoria. I don’t see how it can be both.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Number 3 is a really good point. I don’t think you can connect being dysphoric to being a woman or man because of that. Growing up, for me, I believed I was really supposed to be a girl or that I was one inside because of how I was, but beliefs like that don’t really make sense or rely on sexist stereotypes (unless we actually found out it was in the brain or something, but there isn’t evidence that that is real). I don’t know if the dysphoria with my body would have existed the same without that because I can’t know what that would be like since that is how I felt. I feel like if someone says TWAW they have to believe some version of that because dysphoria wouldn’t make someone a woman.

Woman being tied to female the way trans people use it makes sense to me. I feel like if it wasn’t part of that they wouldn’t want the word to begin with and that’s why the TWAW people want to come for female too. Woman doesn’t make sense without it and if TWAW people managed to change it to just mean an identity, I feel like it would actually be really self-defeating for them. I don’t know if that makes sense.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That makes perfect sense. Thank you.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

  1. You are the arbiter of your own identity. I can’t tell you who you are but you can’t tell me who I am either.

  2. I don’t believe dysphoria can be Solved without transitioning, especially in adults but I don’t think other conditions should be ignored either. Treat them all.

  3. Some points here, your definition isn’t universal because it excluded trans women and many people think trans women are women.

I don’t identify as a man who wants to change... because I don’t identify in any way, shape or form as a man. As I said maybe in a different world I might feel like some in between but never in any universe would I feel in any way connected to being a man. I can’t stress that enough.

Passing is important because people are shitty to trans people. I don’t hate not passing because I am desperate to not be seen as trans in a vaccume. Passing is desirable only because we are single out for abuse based on not passing. If society had no animus against us I probably wouldn’t mind my appearance as much and could enjoy the positive changes I’ve made to the things that used to bother me about my body. I’ve fixed the second characteristics that really bothered me. If I could just be an ugly person it would be so bad but society treats me as a freak because I don’t pass. That’s why passing matters.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You’re not addressing what I’m saying at all. This is incredibly contradictory to the idea of TWAW, and it feels extremely hypocritical. I don’t think we should continue this conversation, because if we do it’s gonna go how so many of our other ones went.

[–]yousaythosethings 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

I can’t tell you who you are but you can’t tell me who I am either.

Who is allowed to tell Rachel Dolezal that she is white, not black?

[–]BayHorseGender Critical 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (77 children)

Why is it wrong for someone to believe that they're Napoleon but it's fine for males to believe they're women? Both of those are physically impossible.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (76 children)

The person is delusional in thinking they are Napoleon. The trans person isn’t delusion they just are using a different definition than you.

[–]BayHorseGender Critical 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (75 children)

In one of the above commentaries, you've said :

A trans person (absent other conditions) properly percieves their body. That body just makes them uncomfortable and they have realized the body that would make them more comfortable. It’s not a delusion that in some divine ephemeral sense that they are actually a woman and this body is a lie, it’s an understanding that this broken car is broken and knowing how to fix it.

What if said person does know that they're not physically Napoleon, but they feel they should be, because else their body makes them uncomfortable? Why is that delusional, but a man knowing he should have a woman's body isn't?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (74 children)

If they don’t literally think they are Napoleon then it isn’t delusion, just preference or fixation. They can change their name and get plastic surgery. They can dress in that style where possible. Why not?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (73 children)

And that would make them Napoleon Bonaparte? Or would that make them someone who altered their appearance to look like him?

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

while gender dysphoria only improves with transition.

Majority of feminine gay men have dysphoria for at least few years, on my knowledge. They are not transitioning, and yet they are fine.

In fact eating disorders are often presentations of things like an unmet need for control and other unrelated issues. This is not the case for gender dysphoria.

What about the "body positivity" with extreme overweight?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You claim most gay men hate their penises? I doubt that.

What about the "body positivity" with extreme overweight?

I’m not sure the context for this. What about it?

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Hate being men in young age.

What about it?

Well, it is like anorexia but reversed.

Body positivity is "how to love your body", but it was disfigured by some amercan activists and now means "be super fat and eat until you can't anymore".

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Again. I’m talking about adults. Even then I don’t believe most gay men hated being boys

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Majority of feminine gay men have dysphoria for at least few years, on my knowledge.

Study?

[–]assignedcopatbirth[S] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Thank you for your thoughtful reply!

  1. I haven't read much about hormone treatments, but transitioning in general is still not seen as a rigorously proven treatment in the medical community, especially since the American Psychiatric Association published a statement that surgical transition has no mental health benefits, https://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/doi/10.1176/appi.ajp.2020.1778correction and children who socially transition don't see mental health improvements either https://doi.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2Fcpp0000295 I would hardly say that looking at all the data, an 'extreme likelihood of improved life' is shown.

  2. What is identity if not a matter of self-perception coupled with behaviour?

2.2 Anorexia no longer requires low BMI as a diagnostic criteria, as most anorexics start at a normal weight, and become underweight later, so it was theorised the low BMI rule wasn't helping early diagnosis and intervention.

2.3 "In fact eating disorders are often presentations of things like an unmet need for control" of course, that's why it's a mental disorder. I would argue gender dysphoria/transition is also a presentation for a need for control, surely being in the wrong body makes one feel out of control, and the transition is the way to fix it.

  1. I'm reading Debra Soh's book right now so I don't have the study to hand, but she cites that something like over 90% of gender dysphoria experienced by teenagers is resolved by the time they reach adulthood. I'll try find the source but she's usually good with only citing respected studies. So growing out of dysphoria is completely possible.

[–]VioletRemihomosexual female (aka - lesbian) 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Use \ before numbers to not break the formatting.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The studies I cited indicated improved mental health in adult trans people with hormone therapy. Whether or not survival intervention would hold similar isn’t a contradiction. However another study I don’t have handy unfortunately had satisfaction with bottom surgery in trans women at well over 90 percent which is good for nearly any surgery

Bodily perception as opposed to perception of the self is not the same thing. Who I am Existentially vs what I look like is a much bigger and more ephemeral question.

Though a particular number or BMI is no longer required, being of an unusually low weight in context is. They were relaxed but not removed in the v to allow for inclusion of more body types and age contexts.

I would argue gender dysphoria/transition is also a presentation for a need for control, surely being in the wrong body makes one feel out of control, and the transition is the way to fix it.

This isn’t accurate. It’s a method to address direct symptoms and has never even been theoretically tied to control issues.

I'm reading Debra Soh's book right now so I don't have the study to hand, but she cites that something like over 90% of gender dysphoria experienced by teenagers is resolved by the time they reach adulthood. I'll try find the source but she's usually good with only citing respected studies. So growing out of dysphoria is completely possible.

The question of teens is a separate issue and that 90 percent as I understand it isn’t trans identities themselves but presentation of gender nonconformity is it not? Actually identifying as trans is different. Regardless an evolving need from childhood to adulthood isn’t indicative of a response to therapy. I’m talking about adults and there has never been any scientific research indicating that dysphoria in adults responds positively to therapies other than transition.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, “anorexics identify as skeletal” is just...so off-base.

[–]SilverSlippers 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I think a more apt comparison would be BIID, body integrity identity disorder. These are people who feel a specific body part (i.e. arm or leg) is 'wrong' and want it removed. They acknowledge that the limb is there but find that it deeply bothers them. Most doctors try a wide range of therapies to get them to accept their body, but they are often unsuccessful. There is honestly a decent argument for having a surgeon remove they limb they want 'gone' if all other therapies fail because many patients will try and remove the limb themselves, often putting their lives in danger.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (35 children)

  1. Just because it's in the DSM, doesn't mean it's a mental illness. Autism is in the DSM, but many autistic people don't want a cure.

  2. Many people have an innate gender identity. I am a cis woman. I prefer being a woman. If I was born a man or woke up the next day as a man I would transition. I would feel distressed if I had a penis and a beard. I guess some would consider it a mental illness but in that case the only reason why I don't have a mental illness is because I was born in the "right" body.

  3. There are currently no other treatment options for severe dysphoria other than to than transition. That's why people take hormones and have surgeries, because of severe dysphoria that causes distress with sex characteristics. If you can find a treatment that makes people content with their sex, that would be amazing. Right now this is all we have.

  4. Starving yourself can lead to death. HRT can have unpleasant side effects, but it's not an immediate risk of death.

[–]MezozoicGaygay male 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

If you can find a treatment that makes people content with their sex, that would be amazing.

Sadly it is not possible in current political climate, and such researches are not welcome. People getting attacked for trying to research such, or even fired for "practicing conversion therapy".

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (33 children)

Wanting a cure or not doesn’t make something not a disorder lmao.

If you don’t want to get chemo you don’t stop having cancer. How would a developmental disorder become neurotypicality just by denying there’s anything different?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (32 children)

Autism is not a disease, unlike cancer.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (31 children)

It’s a developmental disorder. I’m begging you not to try and inform me about a disorder I have.

Disorder, meaning something is functioning abnormally or not functioning. You cannot pretend that there is no difference between a person with autism and one without it. It’s nonsensical and insultingly dismissive of the challenges of living with an ASD.

Do you have anything substantial or just an endless repetition of your opinions in store?

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (30 children)

I have a learning disability, and as a result the ableist school system put me in a segregated class till high school. I do not consider it a disorder. My OCD, ADHD and depression are definitely disorders which thankfully are controlled with medication.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (29 children)

Your learning disorder does not give you authority to decide that developmental disorders are not disorders.

None of your experience is an argument to stop recognising neurodevelopmental differences.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (28 children)

The term disorder implies something is abnormal. My learning difference is not abnormal, and in my life I was disabled more due to discrimination than due to my learning difference.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (27 children)

You’re mixing autism up with a learning disability. The two are different beasts entirely.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (26 children)

A learning difference is not a beast.

I read r/autism on Reddit and some autistic people are offended by the term symptoms. They prefer the term characteristics. I share this sentiment and I am offended when people imply learning differences need to be cured or that they are a “problem”. I know most autistic people support the neurodiversity movement.

[–]CatbugMods allow rape victim blaming in this sub :) 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

Some people being offended does not make them neurotypical. Yes it would be great to be understood better and for differences to be better accepted but that does not change the fact that developmentally, something different from the ideal norm happened and there are varying challenges with that.

Why does the insult of these people matter but my saying I’m insulted by the dismissal of my condition as simply a mild difference does not matter? What reasoning do you have for picking and choosing who’s feelings and who’s experiences matter and who’s don’t?

You don’t know most autistic people because they aren’t on r/autism. That’s a ridiculous claim to make and cannot be backed.

Different beasts is a turn of phrase. Not a literal beast. 🙄

[–]worried19 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not QT, but one major difference is that anorexia kills people. Medical transition may or may not shorten one's lifespan, but it's not an imminent threat to life. I think trans adults should be properly informed of the risks before they consent to treatment like hormones or surgery, and of course minors cannot give informed consent in any circumstance.