The support for LGBT is dropping for the first time in ages thanks to TRA's and nonbinaries.

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[–]turtleduck23 69 insightful - 1 fun69 insightful - 0 fun70 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Gee, can't understand why. Gays and lesbians just wanted to have the right to marry, adopt, not be discriminated against because of their sexual orientation. The new "queers" demand you learn their pronouns, change your language, refer to yourself as "cis", unlearn your "genital preferences" and unlearn everything you learned in biology class. Imagine if gay men said "if straight men won't sleep with us, their homophobic" and then began to bully and dox straight men, you think gay marriage would have passed? Everything the lgb worked for is now going down the drain.

[–]Eurowoman24 31 insightful - 1 fun31 insightful - 0 fun32 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

yeah tbh always been cool with LGB people, your comment summed it up. TQ wtf +, most people like me (het and non woke) will run away from, seems like too much drama and I don't want to be around someone looking to get offended. Also they turned teaching kids about LGBT from "cindy can have two mommies" to an over sexualized mess.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 51 insightful - 1 fun51 insightful - 0 fun52 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

If you read that GLAAD survey they try to blame Trump for everything. It's like yes we all understand Trump sucks but sometimes you need to abandon your narratives when they make absolutely no sense.

[–]FrostyNugsI'm allergic to nuts 31 insightful - 7 fun31 insightful - 6 fun32 insightful - 7 fun -  (2 children)

Alphabet people are at higher risk for Trump Derangement Syndrome

[–]BEB 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, every day Trump seems to get more deranged. I mean, the guy wasn't stable to begin with, but now...

[–]FrostyNugsI'm allergic to nuts 19 insightful - 5 fun19 insightful - 4 fun20 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Oh don't get me wrong, the guy's a fucking idiot. But there are some people who will look out their window, see that it's raining, and find some way to blame Trump.

[–]ekitten 41 insightful - 3 fun41 insightful - 2 fun42 insightful - 3 fun -  (18 children)

I wish the statistics of people uncomfortable around LGBTQ were broken down to see which letter(s) they're uncomfortable with. We know which.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

I strongly disagree. I'm from a country where acceptance is low and I believe it's dropping (especially among younger people) and the LGB is just as looked down upon. It's not just trans who created Pride and go around behaving entitled and inappropriately.

And if the LGB keeps pointing fingers at the T for their mistakes instead of owning up and fixing them, then acceptance is going to drop less. Even people like me who ARE homosexual are quickly becoming very intolerant and are super close to becomign what you guys would call "homophobic." Trans people aren't even my main concern as a homosexual because it's irrelvant, I'm more pissed that a bunch of perverts and attention seekers are trying to represent me, and it's making me feel very guilty and disgusted with myself because I'm starting to believe that I'm a narcissistic pervert too, if every other homosexual male I see acts that way.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (16 children)

Never forget that homosexual desire is universal. It is only sublimated in straights. The goal of gay liberation should be desublimation. That happens by ennobling same sex love. There is the question of why gay people aren't attracted to the opposite sex, but I think that has to do with an incompatibility with the hetero script - for myriad reasons. It's easy to see this with lesbians, who are very often confident strong women who do not want to be dominated by a male. There are likely many routes to exclusive same sex desire, but there are also salient trends, and gender nonconformity tends to be a major one, which is why trans ideology is mixed up with us in the first place, even though they are something different entirely. There is a difference between rejecting aspects of one's sex's stereotypes, and trying to ape the other's.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Never forget that homosexual desire is universal. It is only sublimated in straights.

literally what No it isn't. It's not universal, it's definitely not prevalent in a lot of animal species and it's more common in some places of the world than others. It's quite literally environment based; current evidence suggests this.

"Straights" (Calling them a condescending term is not going to help your case) have nothing to do with it. The current reason so many people are against homosexuality was caused by LGBT. Most anti gay bullying comes from the LGBT. I have had a very few straight people say anything bad about my sexuality (or appearance) but I have had countless gay, bi, lesbian and trans people relentlessly attack me and humiliate me.

The rest of your post is such bullshit meaningless jargon I can't even decipher it. This reads like a TQ post about "queering the cisnormative heterocapitalist system" or whatever pretentious crap they write on their Twitters to make themselves sound smart.

Homosexuality is not a revolutionary act and never will be.

It's easy to see this with lesbians, who are very often confident strong women who do not want to be dominated by a male.

Way to be misognyist and imply that heterosexual women want to be "dominated." Gross.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Ancient Sparta and Sambia. If it exists anywhere universally, it can't be genetic.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

That doesn't prove anything...? I mean, I agree, it's NOT genetic. But it's environmental. Ancient Sparta wasn't exactly a healthy environment, so, using it as a "gotcha" is not a good idea.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

It just demonstrates that it is not genetic, regardless of the environment that produced it. So many people rely on genetic arguments, which I find groveling. They say things like "I would never choose this". Well, same sex love is beautiful and good and I would choose it.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Strong disagree there. I have never experienced "same sex love" and I don't believe it exists; I have only experienced same sex sexual attraction which, as far as I can tell (because I've never been heterosexual to compare, obviously) is distorted, disordered, and unhealthy. I have never had a good homosexual experience, I would absolutely not choose this, and I would jump for a change or "cure" in a heartbeat.

So again. Not universal.

[–]reluctant_commenter 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

Never forget that homosexual desire is universal. It is only sublimated in straights.

Uh... what? You do realize that psychoanalytic theory is bullshit, right? There is no evidence behind this claim. Not everybody has same-sex attraction. Just like not everybody has opposite-sex attraction.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (9 children)

Evidence: ancient Sparta, Sambia, etc. Opposite sex desire and same sex desire are not symmetrical. Opposite sex desire is demanded, same sex desire is prohibited. Opposite sex desire traditionally is grounded in woman slavery and male domination. You don't think that in any way at all impacts peoples' behavior, or perception of themselves, or willingness to explore their sexuality in various directions? They were still executing gays rather recently (oh wait, they still do in some countries). I don't trust any science on the matter that doesn't take those facts on the ground seriously.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 13 insightful - 12 fun13 insightful - 11 fun14 insightful - 12 fun -  (3 children)

So sexuality can be learned?

I am so sad I did not know that before, then I could just learn heterosexuality and have kids with my possible wife.

And conversion therapies weren't just good enough, they should've be improving them, instead of abandoning. Maybe then we could cure homosexuality (or heterosexuality). In heavens - everyone is pansexual.

or willingness to explore their sexuality in various directions?

Transmen! I am, your yaoi prince, is comming to you!

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Transmen! I am, your yaoi prince, is comming to you!

Omg, thanks for the laugh hahahahaha.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

I think it can be learned like language is learned. You cannot choose or change your native language, but you learned it nonetheless, before you even realized you were learning it. Some people can learn a foreign language, but after a certain age, they will always speak it with an accent.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This sounds like what apologets of conversion therapy were saying, almost word to word. If it is learned, then it can be unlearned. And so many inhumane experiments shown that it is not the case. Many homosexual people in homophobic countries would like to "learn straight sexuality, even with an accent", but just can't. It is not how our body works - regardless of how much I will want to have sex with transman or with woman - my body will not answer, I will not be aroused. And same with the rest of homosexual people.

Language is learned by exposure and hearing of words, by repeating and hearing.

If sexuality was learned too, then everyone would be heterosexual, except kids in gay families. But kids in gay families are still often straight, while gays and lesbians are often appearing in straigh families, even in countries where gayness is banned. In USSR, in my childhood, word "homosexual" was nowhere to be found, nowhere shown that man can be with man or woman can be with woman, and yet there still were same amount of homosexual people as there nowadays. So this means it is innate, same as heterosexuality. Only bisexuals can "learn" or "fluid" their sexuality, and even then - not always (majority of bisexuals have heavy leaning towards one sex or another), and there ten times more bisexual people than homosexual people.

[–]Gearbeta 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

What you're saying isn't really proof that same sex desire exists in everyone. Like I believe that there are probably more bisexuals(the kinsey .9s and the 5.9s) than we think, but that doesn't mean that everyone is bi or has the potential for same or opposite sex desire. So in the times of Sparta etc, it might have been more accepted for those already bi people to express their bisexuality. And I'm not even talking scientifically here, I'm just talking about what people say about the subject. There's some research and some ignorant people who seem to believe that all women are bi or "don't have a sexuality" as I saw one guy say, but I've met women who were 100% straight. One girl wouldn't even kiss another girl for 200$ because the thought disgusted her so much. "Ugh, it would be like kissing my mom, no offense" was what she said to the proposal. Most men report no sexual attraction to other men. I mean, I think its kind of rude to respond to a person telling you "I'm not attracted to these people" with, "you could be/you are its just society saying otherwise". Its remarkably close to TRA arguments.

Also, NO opposite sex desire is NOT grounded in male domination or female slavery. Straight people's sexual desire is for the opposite sex regardless of how they feel about sex stereotypes. Many straight women don't like being dominated sexually and prefer sex to be more equal between partners yet they are still straight. They go and find men willing to accommodate them, they don't go to having sex with women. And the rare cases of submissive straight dudes I've seen would rather stay celibate than fuck another man.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Every man, straight or gay, strokes a dick, every day. One cannot be alienated from one's own form and there are examples of universal participation in same sex activities in some societies. It cannot be genetic.

The analysis of opposite sex desire is straight out of radical feminism. Read Sheila Jeffreys.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

"Fellas... is it gay to stroke your own dick?"

^ Literally your argument. 😆

[–]reluctant_commenter 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Evidence: ancient Sparta, Sambia, etc.

You need to be way more specific than that. Are you saying that literally everyone in Sparta had same-sex attraction? How can you prove this? And can I borrow your time machine?

Opposite sex desire traditionally is grounded in woman slavery and male domination.

Evidence? You got any papers to cite for that claim?

I don't trust any science on the matter that doesn't take those facts on the ground seriously.

If you trusted science, you would probably know better than to use the vocabulary of a debunked and wildly inaccurate theory from the early 1900s. "Sublimated" I can't even remember the last time I heard that word...

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I'm articulating arguments from gay liberationists that apparently you've never read. I'm not on meds and apparently you don't read books. Check out The Spiral Path, a Gay Contribution to Human Survival. Don't judge gay liberation by contemporary viewpoints. This debate has been going on since the late 19th century and has an enormous history.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 27 insightful - 1 fun27 insightful - 0 fun28 insightful - 1 fun -  (31 children)

Trans activism and non-binary ideology has done a lot of damage to our cause. That is true. But that is only half the cause of this decline in support. There are still a lot of gay people who put their fetishes on display in public and not just at pride parades, who simp for TQ supremacy, and who silence and try to cancel anybody who disagrees with them on anything. Let’s not forget that we allowed the TQ into our movement in the first place.

[–]FrostyNugsI'm allergic to nuts 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (27 children)

We also started the trend of banning any opposing views by shouting them down as whatever-phobes. And insisting that not only must people give us equal rights, but that they also must personally be entirely comfortable with homosexuality as a concept or they're commiting a thoughtcrime. Oh, and that people do not have the right to freedom of religion if their religion is deemed privileged enough. Anyone remember the whole "bake the cake, bigot!" fiasco? I wonder if people would feel the same way if a muslim owned bakery was asked to bake a cake depicting an image of Mohammed? We invented the tactics the TQ+ utilize today. I say "we" when I mean gay rights activists and not us normie gays, but unfortunately we will always be seen as one and the same by the general public.

[–]Seahorse 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I was talking about that case with my girlfriend the other day, I remember getting into arguments with people about it at the time.

It smacked of being petty, like for starters I would be making sure that the place I went was gay friendly and then... fuck....just go to a different bakery.

[–]FrostyNugsI'm allergic to nuts 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I wouldn't want to give my money to someone who thinks I'm less of a person just because I am homosexual

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Oh, that bake the cake saga infuriates me. Seriously, why would you want someone who does not believe you should be allowed to get married to bake your wedding cake? That is dumb. I get it if there are no baker in your town who would bake you a wedding cake, but even then, someone you know who can bake cakes may bake one for you. Or you can get married in another town. I believe in anti discrimination laws, but the wedding cake thing is a grey area because the wedding industry is a highly personalised industry. Plus, if several bakeries offered to bake your cake and you turned them down because you wanted a gay marriage opponent to bake it for you, not only do you deserve to lose the lawsuit, you deserve to pay a fine for wasting the court's time.

There was a case in Northern Ireland where two men sued a bakery for not baking them a Bert and Ernie cake with the message "we support gay marriage" on it. They bakery said no because they don’t support gay marriage. In the end, the couple lost the case, because the refusal did not violate non-discrimination laws. The couple had the audacity to claim that they felt like second class citizens, but they’ve also admitted that they targeted the bakery solely because they knew the bakery would say no. They could have easily gone to a different bakery, but they did not want a wedding cake. They wanted a lawsuit. The lawsuit began when the Republic of Ireland was having a referendum on gay marriage, and many people said they were voting no because of the "bake the cake" case. The referendum still passed, but those two assholes still managed to undermine our reputation with the public. Fuck them.

Also, drag queen story hour, child drag queens, talks about anal and oral sex in primary schools and bug chasing are other things that make gay men look like a danger to society.

[–]FrostyNugsI'm allergic to nuts 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

There was a case in Northern Ireland where two men sued a bakery for not baking them a Bert and Ernie cake with the message "we support gay marriage"

Lol, thet literally demanded that a business endorse a political view and then were surprised that they lost? I hope the business didn't get dogpiled by woke people for that, but knowing the modern political climate they probably did. It reminds me of how in America, celebrities will get witch hunted on hellsites like twitter if they do not publicly endorse BLM. It's seen as a LiTeRaL hAtE cRiMe if they don't state their support for a movement that is currently burning down our fucking country.

Also, drag queen story hour, child drag queens, talks about anal and oral sex in primary schools and bug chasing are other things that make gay men look like a danger to society.

The progressive left loves to push the most degenerate part of the gay "community," because they see it as being the most subversive and breaking the status quo. They're basically edgy teenagers. Unfortunately despite their simplistic and shortsighted views, they have a lot of influence. Kinks are now widely considered to be under the "LGBTQIA" acronym, under the "Q" specifically. And when the backlash against LGB rights hits due to these freaks, they can move on to the next uwu woke movement and same sex attracted people will be stuck dealing with the fallout.

Tldr: angry

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The fallout the bakery faced wasn’t that bad. They got a lot of support, even from some gay people and our supporters. Then again, people in Northern Ireland are not as woke as people are in London, in Scotland, in Canada, in Melbourne, in New York or in California. Here in the Republic of Ireland, people are starting to have a negative view of BLM because of the protests during a pandemic lockdown and their demands that historical statutes are taken down, and many people see them as a violent group.

The progressive left are ruining everything. Especially the gay community. I used to be very live and let live, but now I’m all for kink-shaming and I no longer support pride parades.

[–]FrostyNugsI'm allergic to nuts 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, gay pride parades could have been a great way to show people that gay and bisexual people are just normal people that you see every day. Unfortunately, the uwu sex positivity brigade had to turn it into a festival of degeneracy. And don't even get me started on "kinkshaming" lol. I cannot fucking believe that people genuinely think that someone is automatically exempt from criticism for their actions as long as those actions are getting them off.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

We also started the trend of banning any opposing views

By "we" you mean progressive left? I thought majority here have left them.

[–]FrostyNugsI'm allergic to nuts 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Unfortunately, most people will always associate gay and bisexual people with the progressive left because they are the political faction traditionally associated with the gay rights movement. Even now, most gay or bi people will have a very negative reaction if you say that you're a gay conservative or moderate.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (18 children)

Homophobia is not fear of a particular person or people tho. It is fear of same sex love because straight people are policed out of it and must sublimate it. The goal of gay liberation is to liberate this form of love for all humanity to be able to access without shame if they want to.

[–][deleted] 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

No. This is a bad take. The goal is equality, not telling everyone they can be gay too. People pushing the idea you are stating is one of the reasons acceptance is dropping. I want no part of it.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

And I want no part of any groveling to straights. Your take implies there is something wrong with same sex desire. There is nothing wrong with it and there are entire societies where it is practiced universally. It cannot be genetic. Straight people are straight primarily because most cultures demand it.

[–][deleted] 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Your take implies there is something wrong with same sex desire.

No it doesn't. It's your take that implies there is something wrong with being straight.

there are entire societies where it is practiced universally.

Then you should have no trouble naming those societies.

It cannot be genetic

Wut?

Straight people are straight primarily because most cultures demand it

No and please don't go around sharing this hot take of yours. It's not helping anyone.

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 16 insightful - 6 fun16 insightful - 5 fun17 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

Gay suprematist. Hilarious

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

IKR

[–]FrostyNugsI'm allergic to nuts 6 insightful - 6 fun6 insightful - 5 fun7 insightful - 6 fun -  (1 child)

REEEEE ALL WOMBYN ARE LESBIANS IT'S JUST THAT TEH PATRIARCHY MAKES THEM LIKE DICK

[–]VioletRemiCat, homosexual one 6 insightful - 8 fun6 insightful - 7 fun7 insightful - 8 fun -  (0 children)

I wish it was the truth :D

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I can share whatever I want. Why are you trying to shut down ideas? They aren't mine. They come straight from radical feminism. There is more out there than contemporary gay dogma.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I shut down any supremacist ideas because they suck. Rad fem ideology is trash.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

You can not become gay, you either born one or you don't.

However, many straight people still believing that "gays will turn our kids into gays! It is spreading like a disease!". Which is ridiculous.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

Says who? There are people who come to realize late in life that they have a capacity for some sex desire.

What would be wrong if it did spread? Your reasoning comes from a place of groveling ("don't worry, you can't get it!"). Same sex desire is not a plague. It's normal. The fact that there are societies where it exists universally disproves any genetic determinism.

[–]florasisHOMOSEXUAL FEMALE/Pussy is my God and I'm monotheist 16 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

There isn't any society where most people are homosexuals. Realizing it later, isn't the same as becoming one. Stop your gay domination delusion. Sexuality is biological. And vast majority is meant to be straight because we're meant to reproduce. Get over it.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I'm articulating arguments from gay liberationists that apparently you've never read. I'm not on meds and apparently you don't read books. Check out The Spiral Path, a Gay Contribution to Human Survival. Don't judge gay liberation by contemporary viewpoints. This debate has been going on since the late 19th century and has an enormous history.

[–]latuspodSuper Straight 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Its funny that you use such similar rhetoric as TRAs and I doubt you even realize it.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Everything is similar and dissimilar to everything else. Just don't think in black and white. It is nuanced. I am not arguing like TRAs at all.

[–]latuspodSuper Straight 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

How very post-modern of you. You are using the exact same rhetoric as TRAs you just wrap it up in your weird gay supremacy. I thought lesbian feminism was absurd when I read about and honestly I never really expected to actually encounter one.

[–]FrostyNugsI'm allergic to nuts 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Bruh all of your comments in this thread are conspiracy theories about how straight people all have same sex attraction, and how straight attraction is just a societal pressure created to oppress women. Please stop schizoposting and take your meds.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I'm articulating arguments from gay liberationists that apparently you've never read. I'm not on meds and apparently you don't read books.

Check out The Spiral Path, a Gay Contribution to Human Survival.

Don't judge gay liberation by contemporary viewpoints. This debate has been going on since the late 19th century and has an enormous history.

[–]Seahorse 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Well is this and it's 3rd wave feminism which has eroded all types of things.

For starters the term "Kink Shame" exists as if to say that we shouldn't critique at all.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I’m all for kink shaming. If you have a fetish, don’t make it publicly known.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Third wave was mostly about men, and it was backlash against women getting rights. It was about "we have chosen to have no rights, stop giving us rights we don't want, every woman must individually change laws for her but not for all women". At least mainstream version of it.

[–]SeahorseLTHarold, they're lesbians! 23 insightful - 7 fun23 insightful - 6 fun24 insightful - 7 fun -  (0 children)

Dick lollies. Enough said.

[–]FediNetizenSuper-semi-bisexual (i.e. straight) 25 insightful - 3 fun25 insightful - 2 fun26 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

They should poll separately for SSA people, and the TQ+ crowd trying to jump on the oppression train.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 33 insightful - 1 fun33 insightful - 0 fun34 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Pretty sure they know the answer already and would never do that poll specifically because they know the answers. They only ever released TQ+ specific data when it fits the predetermined narrative of victimization.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (25 children)

It's not JUST trans people. Support is also dropping because of gay men wearing fetish gear to Pride, and the LGB(T+) as a whole demanding special privileges and acting like their sexuality is everyone's business.

I'm one of the "young people who's support is dropping" and I'm from a country that views it negatively. Honestly if you want support to go up, then you need RADICAL CHANGE. (Radical as in different/severe/harsh. Not radical feminism. God no.) The LGB(T) is not doing anything but making homosexuals look bad and making homosexuals like me go "fuck those people and fuck this shit, I want out". Stuff like this article, Pride etc are a big part of why I hate my sexuality. And people like me are going to keep going down that road unless the LGB(T) can collectively get it's shit together, stop acting like narcissistic adult children, and start treating homosexuality as a mundane thing and not a perverted attention grab.

But that will never happen.

Also lmao @ you guys blaming drag queen bullshit on the trans people. You know drag is a gay male thing right? I hate transgender stuff as much as anyone else, maybe even more so because I'm intersex and trans people are doing so much harm to people like me. But this sub is getting ridiculous, not everything you don't like is the "trans and queer" fault, it's time the LGB starts owning up to it's own messes instead of pointing fingers at someone else and saying the trans community brainwashed gay men to invent drag and be inappropriate or something.

[–]yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" 25 insightful - 1 fun25 insightful - 0 fun26 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

To be fair I think there is an overlap in the worst of LGB and the believers in TQ. The most insufferable gay people I know have doubled down on queer to the point that it looks indistinguishable from TQ.

How would you suggest LGB orgs radically clamp down on the nonsense? I wish they would turn to being more practical support organizations domestically and internationally advocate for gay people under oppressive regimes in a way that doesn’t put even more of a target on their backs, which is what I suspect is happening in Russia. Now more conservative places can see the current shitshow in the anglosphere and be like “see we told you that would happen.”

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I dunno, I think the anti-T crowd can just be as insufferable. Not because they dislike the T, but because they think they're so high and mighty for doing so. You see it on this sub all the damn time. "Oh the TQ is awful, but WE'RE the great LGB, we're a super unified super magical special community, WE'D never do anything like this!"

I don't support "LGB orgs" period. I don't think any of the letters have business being grouped together. Even if they didn't all hate eachother (and they definitely do) their experiences are too wildly different to form a "unified community with solidarity uwu." I'm a homosexual male, and I know fuck all about being a lesbian, and chances are most of them don't understand nor give a shit about my experiences either.

Russia is a prime example of Pride and LGB(T) doing more bad than good. Homosexuality already wasn't viewed too well, and "gay/LGBT activism" just made it worse. And I can't even blame them. I see more sense in the average Russian who thinks that homosexuality is perverted (after seeing Pride especially) than a Woke LGB(T) Activist who thinks that swinging dildos around and teaching butt sex to preteens is progressive.

But maybe I'm biased because I feel out of place anywhere else and Americans genuinely hate me for existing.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I agree with you on this. I am proud to be gay, but I’m not happy with the fact that the loudest voices in my community are freaks. It’s making us look bad. It certainly doesn’t help that the first openly gay prime minister of my country, Leo Varadkar, was one of the worst prime ministers so far, and is a close friend of Justin Trudeau.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It just makes me believe, with all honesty, that homosexuals are more likely to have mental illnesses or other problems that cause them to behave inappropriately. I mean... it applies to me (had emotional issues and neurological problems since I was born) and it seems to apply to all these celebrities, plus I haven't met any other homosexual person who was completely healthy, so surely there is some connection there.

But of course, this is something that needs to have studies and research done... and it won't happen. Because it's too taboo and frankly I strongly believe there is some kind of connection, or perhaps some other fact that people don't want to admit, otherwise it wouldn't be considered "homophobic" and unacceptable to question sexuality.

It's so sad because some of us are really suffering and research like this could lead to ways to make our lives better, but no, we have to keep on suffering and being told we were "born this way" and that there's no hope for us, all because the freaks with money and power say so.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

To be fair, being hated and poorly misunderstood by society might explain why a lot of gay people have mental health problems. People have been thrown out of their homes for being gay, this does a lot of damage to people. And let’s be honest; gay people are human beings, and human beings are emotional. Human beings make poor decisions all the time because emotions cloud our judgement.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think it's a circle, though. And I had problems long before I was aware of "society", as well as a lot of homosexuals with problems live in countries where homosexuality ISNT looked down upon, so I think there's more to it than that.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I'm surprised to read you dislike radical feminism (2nd wave feminism). Like Sheila Jeffreys and David Fernbach? I wouldn't be able to understand why sexual orientation is policed without their contributions.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

"Women are inherently always oppressed victims, especially in first world privileged communities unless they're EVIL BISEXUAL OR STRAIGHT BITCHES WHO ARE COLLABORATING WITH MEN WHO WANT TO OPPRESS ME"

"All men bad even from birth and despite different cultural and individual upbringings"

"To be pro-feminist you need to be vegan because eating chicken eggs is akin to rape"

"If men/trans are trying to force me to be straight that's actually bisexual women's fault"

"Women who aren't radical feminists are evil misogynist harpies"

"Intersex people are either liars or oppressors who just want to steal sports/healthcare/bathrooms from women"

"Intersex women are actually men because I said so, intersex men with two X chromosomes aren't women tho because my logic isn't consistent"

"Communism is good and feminist"

Are all pretty bad takes I want nothing to do with. Radical feminism has a handful of good ideas (gender is bad, porn should be banned, "sex workers" are victims and not something to strive for) but it's mixed in with a fuckton of garbage, you could say the same about TRAs anyway.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

All of this has nothing to do with second wave feminism and majority of radical feminism. Most of the things you have mentioned is liberal feminism, especially communism and intersex parts.

Vegan radical feminism is in interesting position. Those people aren't very welcomed even on Ovarit, but not thrown away either. They are funny, thought, and they are often saying about "we can sacrifice women to save animals" - interesting way to "save women" by sacrificing them.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Ah yes, the whole "they aren't TRUE X" argument. GenderCritical would disagree. And no. It's not liberal feminism. Liberal feminism doesn't push for "marxist womyn only society" (wtf) or say that intersex women are just as bad as trans taking from women's sports and are just men in disguise. These are things I see only on radfem subs.

[–]joogabahGay shows the way 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, that's a caricature or maybe what some stupid teen activist spews. There is some serious theoretical work tho that isn't so crude and off putting. Also, I think you're confusing radical feminism with 3rd wave liberal feminism.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 10 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Crossdressers and drag queens were always very supportive to transsexuals and transgenders, since 70s. And, well, they were both doing same thing.

[–]ekitten 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Good points, thanks. What are your issues with radical feminism, if you don't mind my asking?

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (11 children)

It's biphobic, hilariously and ironically misogynist ("Women who don't like radical feminism, are straight/bi, or don't do things My Way are evil harpies who are collaborating with the evil men to oppress me") anti-intersex and anti mentally ill.

You can't go five minutes into any radfem community without seeing a post that shits on bi people, intersex people, non radical feminist women, straight women, mentally ill people, or probably other groups too.

They have a few good ideas, like being anti porn/prostitution and anti gender, but honestly thats such a small part of it, it's mostly about claiming to be an inherent victim as a privileged white woman in a first world country, freaking out over non issues like "OH MY GOD THIS BI WOMAN CALLED HERSELF A BUTCH I AM LITERALLY BEING OPPRESSED, THIS EVIL FUCKING HANDMAIDEN" and barely paying much attention, if any, to worldwide women's issues.

You can support the few and far between good parts of radical feminism without subscribing to that toxic mess. The same goes for TRAs. A lot of TRAs are actually anti pedo and occassionally have good takes about mental health. This does not mean their ideology isn't a shitshow.

[–]Seahorse 21 insightful - 3 fun21 insightful - 2 fun22 insightful - 3 fun -  (10 children)

Bisexual women really shouldn't be calling themselves butch or femme, these are lesbian culture terms.

Lesbian culture should be respected.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 6 insightful - 5 fun6 insightful - 4 fun7 insightful - 5 fun -  (9 children)

Lmao there is no gay and lesbian "culture", sit the fuck down. I'll start caring about a "culture" that doesn't really exist when people - ESPECIALLY LGBT - stop trashing MY country and people's culture.

Literally no one is harmed by calling themselves "Butch". People ARE harmed by being called words they DONT want to be labeled, for example, gay men referring to me as a "Femboi" or "twink" or everyone referring to me as "A gay". But you guys don't see the problem with that. So hypocritical.

This is why people have issues with LGBT. This is why rates of acceptance of homosexuality are going down and why even homosexuals like me are becoming against it. The loudest LGBT voices are people like you who make an issue out of nothing.

[–]Seahorse 23 insightful - 4 fun23 insightful - 3 fun24 insightful - 4 fun -  (6 children)

No I won't "sit the fuck down".

You whinge about a straight person saying the gays or straights (seriously) but you want some bi chick to be able to refer to herself as butch/femme when there's history behind the terms.

Nah I'm sorry you're being ridiculous, people have every right to criticize that.

You sound like you belong back at Reddit.

[–]biggreensunglasses 14 insightful - 4 fun14 insightful - 3 fun15 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

LMAO at this guy 😂. Their argument essentially boils down to:-

"How dare you suggest words could be harmful in this particular context, how unreasonable! Nothing at all like how harmful the words are in this other context, that impacts me specifically. Waa!"

[–]Seahorse 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It's worse than that, it's a fucking guy having the audacity to lecture lesbians on words important to our culture.

I blocked his stupid ass.

Anyway 😘

[–]biggreensunglasses 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

😘🥰

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Lol "history."

There's hateful history behind the term "gays" too but you don't care about that. Stop being a hypocrite. You can't claim to "literally be oppressed" by someone else "stealing your word" but tell the rest of us to shut up when we're hurt by being called a disrespectful one.

You get to choose. Either all words are good and nobody is allowed to be offended. Or people can be upset by words and that means you don't get to call people whatever you want. Can't go both ways.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 15 insightful - 4 fun15 insightful - 3 fun16 insightful - 4 fun -  (1 child)

You can't claim to "literally be oppressed" by someone else "stealing your word" but tell the rest of us to shut up when we're hurt by being called a disrespectful one.

You are literally doing just that yourself.

This topic is way too personal now, with speaking about posters, not issues themselves.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm not though? I don't get upset over people "stealing my words" because... no words can be "stolen" and no word in this context I have any emotional connection to.

I don't give a fuck if a bi person (or straight person or asexual or whatever) calls themself "gay." I don't even like the term "gay." They can even call themselves "Homosexual", which would be factually incorrect but hey, it's not my problem lmao

[–]windrunner 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Can you like calm down for 5 seconds? LMAO you could actually be making good points if you weren't so hysterical about them

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

That's pretty rich for this sub, which has a fucking mental breakdown every time a bi person calls him/herself gay or lesbian, or when someone says they don't give a shit about "gay history" or LGB alliance.

[–]MezozoicGayoldschool gay 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Genderqueer demands movement is very homophobic, and this movement is in all the news.

This means two things:

  1. People who are supporting TQ+ are becoming less supportive towards LGB.

  2. People who are annoyed or pissed off by TQ+ are becoming less supportive towards LGBTQ+ in general.

And in the end we have what we have.