Men's IssuesShut these bigots down!

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[–]motss-pb 53 insightful - 3 fun53 insightful - 2 fun54 insightful - 3 fun -  (17 children)

Why is their solution never to create their own campground/bathhouse that is trans-inclusive? Why must they always hound and harass gay-owned businesses and try to destroy them for not catering to trans people? And then they have the nerve trying to compare it to racist businesses with a no-blacks policy. Excuse me, there's no comparison here. Race is not relevant because sexual orientation is not based on race. It's based on sex. If same-sex only spaces are deemed transphobic, then gay men and lesbians cannot have their own spaces.

[–]julesburm1891 43 insightful - 2 fun43 insightful - 1 fun44 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

The race comparisons piss me off too. The problem with segregation was that neutral things like schools and diners were segregated by race, which was obviously unfair. There was absolutely no reason black people should’ve been left out. Trans people are asking that very not neutral things (e.g. bath houses, gay campgrounds, bars, etc.) be open to them with zero regard for the people for which these spaces were created. It’s more like if a synagogue hosted an event to to discuss religions/history/culture for Jews and Christians came banging on the door demanding to be included and everything changed to accommodate them.

[–]Finnegan7921 15 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Actually, bars can't exclude people(except for the age requirement) if they are generally "open" to the public, same as restaurants. Any establishment that holds itself open to the public at large can't for instance, be a men's only, whites only, etc. Usually this system is self regulating as straight guys don't want to hang out at gay bars, they know they'll be out of luck at lesbian bars, etc, etc. This bunch apparently has this ground as a private entity and therefore can limit access to their members.

[–]julesburm1891 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

You’re right. Technically, bars can’t exclude people. I just meant that generally, it’s understood by straight people that the gay bar isn’t for them and it’s understood by LGB people that straight people who pretend it’s for them are assholes. Now we’ve got transbians at the lesbian bar being creeps and aidens at the gay bar. They could make their own “queer” bar to go to, but they instead insist on forcing themselves into places that obviously aren’t meant for them.

[–]tu_jode_mucho 30 insightful - 2 fun30 insightful - 1 fun31 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

In addition to that, black people and other groups who were excluded just made their own spaces and pretty much only demanded to be included in institutions like voting, medicine, education, and jobs. Black people literally were excluded from the university system and made their own colleges and universities. They created their own epicenters of commerce (ie Black Wall Street) and culture. To compare themselves to black people and racial minorities in general is an insult. Racial/ethnic minorities didn't whine and cry like pussies, they fucking made it happen despite actual real deal discrimination and threats to their lives and families.

IMO if you have to constantly compare your struggle to another group's struggle it isn't valid. Jewish people don't have to compare the Holocaust to slavery, it stands on its own merit. Mexicans and Central Americans don't have to say "it's like anti-black xyz!" in regards to being put in cages, it speaks for itself.

Sorry for the rant but it's insulting as hell for a bunch of white people with a weird ass fetish to compare themselves to groups who've actually been through shit and on top of that claim to be the group that fought for LGB rights when all they do is bitch about people not validating their fee fees.

[–]GreykittymommaMagical lady 💜 21 insightful - 3 fun21 insightful - 2 fun22 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you for this rant as a white person who isn't a total asshole. Minorities had to be tough to survive and this talking point is a slap in their faces.

Get the fuck out of here, have you ever seen white women using firehoses on transwomen? I don't fucking think so but now that you mention it...

[–]Preachy_Jerk 14 insightful - 3 fun14 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

I was with you until you compared slavery and the Holocaust to people being detained after voluntarily committing a crime. My nephew got put in a cage for a few days in the UK when they discovered his plans to work under the table. He's super white. That's kinda one of the things about the modern international order of independent states, hundreds of years in the making. If you disregard their laws, you might get put in a cage.

Yes, there's a shitty humanitarian crisis at the border that's been there since Joe Biden got into politics half a century ago. Much of the reason why it's there is because the very people who should be "making it the fuck happen" and "creating their own spaces", i.e. making those countries better places to live, are leaving instead. There's no good reason why so many Mexicans should be without running water and good schools - the fabulously wealthy Mexican elite are grateful for the political pressure release valve that is the US border. It's bizarre to me that so many Americans think encouraging people to risk death and rape walking across the desert to get a job as a slave in a poultry factory is a humanitarian gesture.

Instead of "kids in cages" - which obviously sucks, and had more to do with rampant child trafficking amidst a massive, continuous human migration than with racism, and was going on during the Obama/Biden administration and nobody cared - maybe a better example would be the people (especially sexual minorities) who got bombs dropped on their heads and have been living through hell since Biden teamed up with Bush to launch the Iraq war. Or the gays being persecuted by militia after Obama/Biden overthrew the Libyan government. Or the millions forced from their homes when Obama/Biden dumped money and weapons into the Syrian civil war.

They say politics makes strange bedfellows, but sheesh! The bad orange man isn't president anymore. You got the corrupt and senile mass murderer you wanted, and destroyed women's spaces and women's sports to do it. Maybe you could quit it with the woke dog whistles for your dopamine fix, so we can find our way out of this hell?

[–]tu_jode_mucho 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yea probably not the best comparison I admit that. Just trying to convey the point that they don't have to piggyback on another group's struggle to validate their own, which as you said is really rooted in their own country's elite making their homeland a shithole. Thanks for your input.

[–]linda_senora 22 insightful - 4 fun22 insightful - 3 fun23 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

Because they are parasites?

Without validation, they cannot survive.

[–]GreykittymommaMagical lady 💜 15 insightful - 7 fun15 insightful - 6 fun16 insightful - 7 fun -  (1 child)

Transites? Yikes! Almost sounds like transvestites. Maybe that's why they shed that term like the pretty butterflies they are! I have also gotten into fights with trans people about caterpillars and butterflies. These fucking people.

[–]linda_senora 8 insightful - 5 fun8 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Instead of Xenomorphs, how about Transmorphs?

If this were an Alien movie, who would trans people be: chestbursters?

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 21 insightful - 5 fun21 insightful - 4 fun22 insightful - 5 fun -  (4 children)

They always hound others because the TRAs could never create something. The only "creations" they have are poorly drawn porn and fan fictions with the writing level of a 3rd grader. They could never make a business, let alone if there's competition that is vastly superior in the eyes of most people for such a fundamental reason as this. No, the only way they know of to make a trans inclusive campground is to whine and cry until an existing campground becomes trans inclusive. There is no other way they're capable of

[–]julesburm1891 25 insightful - 4 fun25 insightful - 3 fun26 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

Idk. I think they understand that if they created an “inclusive” alternative it would just be a bunch of trans people. If there was an exclusively male bathhouse and a “queer” bathhouse, all the gay men (no matter how woke they are) would still go to the all male one. The “inclusive” one would be a bunch of Aidens and couple of bi guys with blue hair. Same thing with dating apps. If there was an all-female dating app, all the lesbians would be there and the transbians would just be angrily swiping past each other on Her. They bully LGB people for “inclusion” because they know we’d all just nope out if we could.

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Exactly, they can't survive competition because of the fundamental difference that makes the exclusionary version superior. The only way to increase the diversity is to force people to be diverse, because people don't want sexual diversity in homosexual or heterosexual dating pools.

[–]julesburm1891 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes. I think this is why Stonewall is fighting the LGB Alliance so much. They know damn well if an alternate group is allowed to have a fair say, most LGB people are going to go with the group that actually represents them.

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 14 insightful - 4 fun14 insightful - 3 fun15 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Locusts. After they invade the space and have eaten all the harvest made possible by people who have lain the groundwork there for many years, they move on from the now dry, barren place to find the next ripe oasis to consume.

[–]GreykittymommaMagical lady 💜 18 insightful - 7 fun18 insightful - 6 fun19 insightful - 7 fun -  (0 children)

This trans person on a lgbt sub was so clearly useless they were bitching about that sub not being inclusive enough and then got mad and defensive that anyone dare suggest THEY start one of their own. How dare they have to do a damn thing! They ONLY wanted it because it is ours, it's my little brother all over again times a million!

[–]reluctant_commenter 32 insightful - 3 fun32 insightful - 2 fun33 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Never heard of that before but I'm glad they are standing their ground!

[–][deleted] 25 insightful - 2 fun25 insightful - 1 fun26 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Hope it doesn't go the way of MichFest

[–]julesburm1891 24 insightful - 4 fun24 insightful - 3 fun25 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Didn’t really expect Michigan to continuously be the epicenter for single-sex spaces refusing to back down but I’m here for it.

[–]Taln_Reich 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

depends on how many will hear about this case. If this gets widely know, it will go that way.

[–]linda_senora 20 insightful - 3 fun20 insightful - 2 fun21 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

I sincerely hope those men do not cave in!

Trans identified people need to do their own thing and the rest of the population has to tell them NO much more frequently.

[–]Preachy_Jerk 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I actually feel kinda bad for them. Imagine thinking cutting your boobs off will make people regard you as a man, and then still being excluded! It's not like I've never made any extremely poor decisions.

But I can't, can't, can't do anything that will encourage people to cut their boobs off!!!

"Oh, you want to go gay camping? Sorry, you haven't cut your boobs off yet!"

"See, I got my boobs cut off! Now you have to let me in!" WTF kind of horror movie is this.

The only possible ethical compromise would be to let women in. But that would be stupid.

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not saying that these are the same type of people who would've barged into those gay spaces:

https://www.detransvoices.org/detrans-story/

But some of the stories here are pretty sad. A running theme I'm noticing while reading is that most people, from people they know, family, friends, therapists, to the medical establishment, keep on validating their illusionary gender identities to the detriment of their physical and mental health, instead telling them what they really NEED to hear. The truth about their biological sex and how it can't be changed, and that it's okay to be a gender non-conforming female or male. And that they don't even need to be "queer" or same-sex attracted to be allowed to be gnc. There are tons of heterosexual people who are that way naturally. But the TRA cult keep pushing this gender ideology lie on these vulnerable, socially awkward people(like introverted and autistic people). Never to help them, but to buff their own woke egos. Idk, maybe it's because I was very socially awkward myself when I was younger, and had precious few friendships to stabilize and anchor me, that this sort of opportunistic manipulation offends me so much.

[–]linda_senora 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I cannot feel sad for them.

Governmental and non governmental organizations cater to them, they can do whatever they want and won't face any consequences.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 18 insightful - 1 fun18 insightful - 0 fun19 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Good. I’m glad they doubled down. We need more people and organisations to stand their ground.

[–]GoValidateYourselfuseful lesbian 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It sounds like the male version of Mitchfest (minus music festival and radical feminism of course). These guys have every right to freedom of association, just like the women of Mitchfest did. I hope they remain steadfast and don't get harassed out of existence.

[–]fuck_reddit 10 insightful - 7 fun10 insightful - 6 fun11 insightful - 7 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah cause these gender-special people really want to go camping...

[–]Rosefield 10 insightful - 5 fun10 insightful - 4 fun11 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

They also should say men need to have xy chromosomes. Genderclowns would explode. 😁

[–]chupacabrawitchI'm super thanks for asking 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I hope they won't destroy this like they did with Michfest we just can't have anything to ourselves can we

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What does "present himself as male" though mean? Because... that also makes it sound like they exclude GNC men, lol. Which is neither surprising nor illegal, I think businesses should be able to discriminate, but... "presenting" doesn't change your sex. Still have a dick no matter how I look.

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think it's to exclude transwomen who fit all the other criteria to be male. They may be legally and biologically male, but they're also unwanted, so to say that all guests must present as male makes sure that they can't get in, either.

If someone were, say, a drag queen who performed on stage as a female, he could just... not mention that... and it would be fine because he is a legal and biological male who acknowledges that fact without saying he is a real woman or otherwise trans outside of acting.

Not to mention that presenting as male is distinct from presenting as masculine in this new age of gender ideology, so a feminine man would fit under presenting as male if not a very stereotypical one.

[–]oyasuminasai50 7 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

I say let them in and then watch their outrage when all the gay men ignore them because they have a vagina.

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 11 insightful - 4 fun11 insightful - 3 fun12 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Be careful, keeping them out in a campground away from electricity, internet, and tumblr validation may make them violent, especially if there's fire or food poker stick things laying around

[–]Taln_Reich 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

if you read the campgrounds definition of "guy" exactly, technically a transgender man could qualify (assuming phalloplasty, which the vast majority never gets) so that might be a usefull rebuttal here if anyone claims it to be trans-exclusive.